Does it really matter where your undergraduate degree came from?

<p>I’m a senior at a top-10 school according to US News and am planning on going to grad school in theoretical computer science. And I honestly don’t think I’d be as prepared and ready for grad school as if I went to my state flagship or an LAC. For instance, having a strong math background is pretty important for theoretical computer science, so I’ve taken many advanced math classes. But one of my freshman math classes is technically a grad class at my state flagship, and many other classes are not even offered at the top LACs - or are offered one semester every other year. Of course, people can take grad classes with no problem, or take an independent study, but that seems inferior to being able to take classes with a group of other undergraduates. And remember, I’m want to do theoretical computer science, so I imagine the situation would be even worse for math majors. And in terms of research and interaction with professors, I do actually get to talk to the top professors in my field and work on projects with them - this is opposed to the common perception that top researchers avoid undergraduate students.</p>

<p>I would still go to the overcrowded “name” school.</p>

<p>Your college degree is a “brand name” label.</p>

<p>Image Becomes Reality. </p>

<p>As a Florida dad, I would definitely go with UF.</p>

<p>Or if not, then FSU.</p>

<p>Many kids select University of Central Florida or University of South Florida over FSU, because FSU is very far away for most people, but I don’t think those schools have a national reputation, and presumably, your daughter will be applying to some graduate schools outside the State of Florida.</p>

<p>New College is probably of higher academic quality than even FSU, but most people have never heard of it.</p>

<p>You’d really have to go back to post 1 to see how OP is asking this.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all the great information! The undergraduate degree with be in psychology. </p>

<p>I think it is a great idea to look into the grad school and see what they think about our different schools. Not sure if they will give their opinion because I am guessing they think the best option would be their school, but it is worth a shot.</p>

<p>I also like the idea of researching the lesser known universities to find out more details especially regarding how many move on to grad school and where they go. </p>

<p>I am really frustrated by this. I never thought upper level classes would be so overcrowded. I expected that at a large school for the general ed classes but I never anticipated that for the rest of the classes. I don’t know if it is just because psych is the most popular major or if all the classes are like that but I am not impressed. Unfortunately, it has thrown a damper in my daughter’s plans.</p>

<p>wakeup13- I sent you a PM.</p>

<p>FYI psychology is often one of the most crowded majors at large public universities. It can sometimes be a “default” major because it is seen as less rigorous than some other majors.
Therefore, class size can be an issue and I think you are right to be focusing in on that. There are some programs that offer smaller class sizes, but your D might need to expand her search to include oos schools.</p>

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<p>“Upper level” can be different at different schools. Just because a class is 400-something, doesn’t mean it’s upper level. Many majors where I go have specific classes required for the major that are 400-level.</p>

<p>Harvard’s Department of Psychology has a link on its FAQ page about graduate admissions that refers potential applicants to the book:
Getting In: A Step-by-Step Plan for Gaining Admission to Graduate School in Psychology, Second Edition,
issued by the American Psychological Association
Copyright 2007
$19.95
But you may be able to get it on an inter-library loan, if your library does not have it.
It might be worthwhile to look at this now, in terms of planning.
There is also a Kindle Edition.</p>

<p>pamom59, Thanks for the message! It is a money issue. When she picked her “goal in life” we knew she would need a graduate degree. Even if she changes her mind about her specific MA, she will still need grad school because you can’t do a whole heck of a lot with an undergrad in psych. We wanted to be able to pay for that as well as the undergraduate degree without needing any loans. To do that, she will need to stay in-state. She is welcome to go OOS but she will need loans to do that and she doesn’t want loans. </p>

<p>Vlandenschlutte, she emailed the psych department at all the schools and explained exactly what classes she was curious about. She also asked if any of these classes were taught by TA and every single school responded with a Yes!</p>

<p>First off, why can’t I quote on this message board? If I hit reply on the post I want to quote, nothing happens and I don’t see a quote button. Technically challenged! </p>

<p>Anyway, thanks for the info QuantMech! She isn’t going to grad school for a degree in psychology. Sometimes the information applies across the board so I might check it out. Thanks!</p>

<p>Well, when you are at a party and people start to discuss what colleges they went to and you say big name school (has to be really big to matter, not a state school) then they all get impressed and ohh and ahh for maybe 60 seconds. The rest of the year, it does not matter. That is our experience anyway.</p>

<p>I think when you went to a big name school, people tend to take you more seriously. You can say stuff like “I went to MIT” and people tend to have an automatic respect. But in the long run, with careers and such…where you went often does not matter. I did notice in careers where people ask where you went all the time, such as teaching or law, it might matter more. But it is still limited on how much it helps. And it never compensates for the low academics that you can run in to in over crowded classes/universities and the frustrations you deal with there.</p>

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<p>That sounds like what the high school seniors on CC imagine the adult world is like.</p>

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<p>Here’s how I did it - copied the relevant sentences from your post and pasted them into the Quick Reply box at the bottom of the page. Inserted square brackets in front with the word “quote” in front and brackets with /quote at the end. Make sure there are no spaces between the brackets and the text.</p>

<p>Sorry if my “general population” comment offended anyone - it comes from a combination of my own personal experience teaching at a directional public and my D3’s experience as a relatively high-stats student at her private. In both cases, the tippy top students are as good as you’ll find pretty much anywhere (in my case, they simply don’t have the money to enroll at a private college), but there are times when both of us have had to bite our tongues during class discussions.</p>

<p>Are classes watered down? As much as I’d like to say otherwise, I think they are. My D2 went to a much more “intellectual” school than her siblings, and she was reading entire original sources while the other two had shorter readings or textbooks for similar classes. She was writing 20 page papers while they were writing 5-10 ones. </p>

<p>However, when I teach (in a social science discipline), I’m told that the way I present content is “layered,” meaning that it can be understood on a superficial level by those who are at that point in their intellectual development and simultaneously at deeper levels by other students. Most of my colleagues do the same, and I imagine profs in Florida would also do so. Students interested in grad school typically read the optional assignments to get a fuller picture.</p>

<p>OP- it really depends.</p>

<p>Your D can look at the requirements for the grad program she’s interested in and see how well some of the schools match up. She may find that a two sequence course in statistics (probably a requirement for a grad program) has two or three versions available - one for kids majoring in applied math; one for kids majoring in econ or bio; one a “lite” version for other majors. But a rigorous grad program may not accept the “lite” version, and she may not be able to fit in the correct course sequence (intended for other majors) given all the other requirements.</p>

<p>You may also want to consider that a majority of students do not end up majoring in what they think they want to major in when they are 17 years old. With all due respect to your D- picking an undergraduate school that is primarily attractive because it prepares you for a highly specific grad program- well, what happens if like most sophomores she decides she wants to major in something completely different? And the school which was fine for plan A is either horrible for plan B, doesn’t have plan B, or has a very sub-optimal plan B?</p>

<p>Kids who pick a school for its computer science program end up majoring in Renaissance studies and kids who are convinced they are going to become architects end up majoring in linguistics or ethnography.</p>

<p>So while it may well be that one of these less well known schools could be a great fit for your D- keep in mind that most kids change their minds, even the ones who are convinced they know what they’re doing- and that sometimes when you go down the food chain you end up with schools where the course offerings are just not that fungible. </p>

<p>In my own state, there are satellite campuses of our flagship state U which offer perfectly respectable (and well respected) degree programs in business and teaching, for example. So a kid who discovers during the required Freshman lit course that he really wants to major in Literature-- well, it’s sort of a piece meal effort. Sure-- he can patch together a degree program. But while you don’t need to explain why you went to this college for a teaching degree, the core humanities offerings are weak (compared to other schools in the state and the region) and frankly, a kid would be settling for second best to study literature at a college geared towards getting the business and ed majors through their required humanities classes.</p>

<p>There are no grad students in Literature on this campus. There are few opportunities for writing or editing (except for the required sequence in composition.) etc.</p>

<p>Your D sounds very focused, which is great… but after all, she’s still a teenager.</p>

<p>One thing to consider is what the Honors program consists of. Will she take honors sections of her core classes, or just separate interdisciplinary honors classes? IMO having honors sections of the core classes can do a lot to mitigate the disadvantages of a less-prepared student body overall, but not all honors programs offer that.</p>

<p>If you are taking a major that is NOT in high demand, then I guess your school will matter because you have more competition.</p>

<p>If your major is like COMPUTER SCIENCE, it does NOT MATTER where your degree is from because there are not enough graduates (nor experienced) to fill the software engineering positions.</p>

<p>I have a lot of experience and often times I am called to help out with interviews and/or evaluations for new hires. Let me tell you what I have seen in 22+ years…</p>

<p>The Georgia Tech grads are working side-by-side with the State-U grads who are working side-by-side with the 2+2 grads (2 years comm college, 2 years at univ) and ALL of them are waiting for some State-U grad like myself to give them tasking…LOL</p>

<p>The only other jobs that are dependent on your school are the investment banker jobs.</p>

<p>And a little bit about myself…</p>

<ul>
<li>Modest SAT/ACT scores</li>
<li>ZERO AP credits</li>
<li>ZERO SAT subject tests</li>
<li>Public High School</li>
<li>ZERO Honors courses</li>
<li>B.S. Applied Math from Michigan State Univ</li>
<li>M.S. Engineering from Univ of Wisconsin</li>
<li>So-called (because I still have to budget) Top 5% income for last 10 years.</li>
</ul>

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<p>Thanks, Stradmom!</p>

<p>Blossom, you are right, my daughter could change her mind. She will go into college needing only 60 credit hours so she doesn’t have the benefit of changing her mind too many times. But if she does, she will stick to something in the liberal arts category and all the colleges we have looked at offer those. Since she is dual enrolled, she has had the benefit of taking a lot of different classes to test her interests but I know she could still change her mind. As long as she isn’t going to a school for either degree that is restrictive in what they offer, I think she will be fine.</p>

<p>Mathmomvt, that is a very good point about the honors program. We have visited two honors only colleges and I loved how every class was honors. That was one of the things I didn’t like about the larger colleges. The classes offered weren’t in a major but they were generic classes like leadership. We will have to check with the lesser known colleges and see what they do in honors.</p>

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<p>Kinda defeats the purpose of the honors distinction, doesn’t it?</p>

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<p>Psychology is a very popular major. Other very popular majors include business, biology, economics, political science, and English.</p>

<p>If you want to know class sizes, see if the colleges’ on-line class schedules will show enrollment and limits.</p>