<p>wakeup13=keep in mind that private schools usually do not charge more for out of state students and merit aid at most of them is very generous. Don’t discount schools because of the price tag until you get your final aid package because you may find that your in-state schools are your most expensive option. If you are looking for large merit packages, apply to at least 10 schools to give her the best chance of getting what you need financially.</p>
<p>Some privates won’t count those 60 hours. But if she has high GPA and standardized test scores, it is probably researching some private options.</p>
<p>I too wondered about encouraging her to look at smaller, lesser known majors, that are similar to psychology. Does one need an undergrad degree in psych to get a graduate degree in it?</p>
<p>And if she stays in state, is the plan to graduate in two years at age 20 of so?</p>
<p>wakeup…you say your daughter already has a specific grad school major in mind. Is it possible to do a different major (that is not so “popular”) that would still prepare her for applications to grad schools within her possible speciality? Most specialties have more than one undergrad major that they view as favorable choices for grad school students they accept.</p>
<p>Just an FYI…that private school you mentioned upstream…I NEVER heard of it before. BUT I have heard of New School (positively). If you are looking for name recognition…the publics in FL have more than that school you mentioned (Florida Gulf?).</p>
<p>I read a book recently concerning paying for college. The author sighted a study indicating that as an undergraduate the primary indicator for good employment was the intelligence of the student, not the school they attended. While average salaries received by State U. grads were lower than Top Tier U it is because State U. takes a much broader spectrum of students than Top Tier U. If you look only at students with similar statistics in HS the income results were pretty much the same. The situation changes with graduate degrees. The name of the school does result in a measurable difference in salary. I’m sorry I can’t name the sources. The book is at home and I read it a few months ago so I can’t remember the exact name or the author’s name. One thing I don’t remember reading was the affect school choice had in acceptance to higher level graduate schools. I’ll have to check on that.</p>
<p>wakeup13- I sent you another PM. I agree with post above about investigating merit scholarships. You might find that OOS colleges are more affordable than you think. Not everyone pays the “sticker price.” LOL.</p>
<p>Update:
I spoke to the admissions person for the program my daughter wants at the graduate school today. I asked flat out if the school mattered and named some of our lesser known state colleges. The response was, “not at all.” She listed the most important things with volunteer/work experience in the related field being most important. My D has already been doing that and plans to continue. </p>
<p>We have discussed changing majors. She is not getting a graduate degree in psychology but 30 credit hours of psychology courses are mandatory for the graduate program. She could flip flop her major and minor but she doesn’t want to. </p>
<p>We are going to look a little closer at some private schools. I know people always say that they can be cheaper but I have yet to find anyone personally where that has been the case. Many of my D’s friends are a year older and heading off to school now. Their experience was that while privates offered tons of money compared to state colleges, the overall price was cheapest at the state colleges. Florida tuition is still one of the cheapest around. Price isn’t everything but I would really like to get her through as debt free as possible.</p>
<p>First, good job for really dogging this. I was so surprised to hear how UFl uses TA’s that I looked it up- there’s even an extensive handbook for TA’s there, sort of like teacher-training lite, just add water.</p>
<p>When we say privates can be less expensive after aid, it really depends on the state, school, costs and available aid. Eg, my friend’s twins- ie, same family, same parent income and Fafsa EFC. One in-state at a prestigious state school, $3k aid the first year, net about 21k, before student loans. The other at a top regional, high-cost, oos LAC: after aid, need and merit, net about 16k, before loans. Second kid was a super match for that school and its programs. They went to bat for him. First was also a great match, but the school doesn’t have much to give.</p>
<p>you haven’t mentioned what the grad program is and that might really change people’s answers and advice to you. I think we were initially all thinking it would be a grad program in psych like a PhD. Maybe for the specific grad school degree she wants, it really doesn’t matter which school she attends. I realize you may not want to give too many details on the internet but FWIW the more details you give the better advice you’ll get here.</p>
<p>Would your daughter consider Wellesley? It gives fantastic financial aid and is extremely well respected by grad schools.</p>
<p>I’ve avoided posting about her grad school choice because I don’t want that to become the topic of discussion but here it goes. She would like to get an MA in art therapy. They do not require a certain major however they do require 30 c/h in psych and 30 c/h in art. She is majoring in psych and minoring in art. She has zero desire to major in art and I agree with her on that front. </p>
<p>She has worked in a summer art camp for years. From that, she convinced the owner to do a one week camp each year for those with special needs. Because of that, she now tutors a few of those kids using art to get them to express themselves. She really enjoys it and each year she builds on her experience. </p>
<p>She loves her psych classes, though. While she doesn’t have any desire to become a psychologist, she does want it to be her undergraduate major. I am not sure what other options she would have for a major.</p>
<p>Wellesley is $41,824 for one year of tuition only. Florida tuition is about $6,000 for one year. They would have to offer an obscene amount of money to even come close.</p>
<p>My brother and I both went to college in-state. I went to a private, and he went to a public, quite literally, just down the street. It actually wound up costing less money for me to go to school since my school offered significant scholarships (both need and merit).</p>
<p>Wellesley doesn’t really have merit aid but do have great needs-based if you qualify. (at least my D wasn’t offered any merit and I have heard it said that is b/c they don’t have it)</p>
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<p>I’d say “it depends.” Mostly the answer is no. Your grad school will trump your undergrad school for most employment decisions. But the undergrad school may be indirectly important, because it may affect your daughter’s chances of getting into the grad school she wants.</p>
<p>We attended an Caltech admissions seminar held here in San Diego, and one of the selling points of Caltech was that its degrees were so respected by grad schools. As evidence of this one of the speakers was a prof from UCSD who sat on her department’s graduate admissions committee. And she said there was a cut-off in their estimation of
undergrad college rigor and quality. And applications from students who had attended colleges below that cut-off were not considered for acceptance.</p>
<p>It’s a harsh but nevertheless an instructive example of where the quality of your undergrad college sometimes does matter. However, in general, I’d say a person with great grades from a mediocre college can often get as many or more opportunities for advancement than someone with mediocre grades from a high-end school.</p>
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<p>McGill? You mean McGill in Montreal? It’s the one college in Canada that Americans are most likely to have heard of: “The Harvard of Canada” and all that. But the word “McGill” does not belong in any discussion of small classes except as an opposite example. McGill’s classes are huge.</p>
<p>Wakeup- I know several people who work as art therapists and I don’t believe any of them have an MA in art therapy.</p>
<p>One was trained as a clinical psychologist but got interested in pediatric trauma… one has a Master’s in Social Work but has always been interested in art; one has an early childhood education major and worked in a variety of therapeutic settings; one has an undergrad degree in bio, thought she wanted to go to med school but got a summer job in a geriatric facility and is now an art therapist at a large rehab center.</p>
<p>So I wouldn’t fixate on an MA in Art Therapy as the raison d’etre for the undergrad college choice. Your D can end up in a therapeutic setting from any of the counseling disciplines, social work, education working with specific populations, or a Masters in Occupational Therapy with a focus on art.</p>
<p>Opens up a LOT more options both for grad school and for her future career!!!</p>
<p>Blossom, I am not seeing what you are seeing. Granted, my experience mostly comes from online sources although my daughter has emailed and spoken to many art therapists over the past year to get some feedback. The job market seems to be thriving for this field but I have yet to come across a single job that doesn’t require an MA in art therapy. </p>
<p>My daughter would prefer to start out in the school system since many places are implementing art therapy programs for all the kids on the spectrum, ADHD, etc. Every single job opening I have found requires an MA in art therapy. As a matter of fact, there were two openings just posted for two different school districts in the past month and both were very specific to note that a degree in art education was not acceptable. They were specifically looking for MA’s in art therapy. </p>
<p>Once she has experience, she would like her own practice. We have both looked up tons of people with their own practice, and she has emailed/called a half dozen or so, and they all have an MA in art therapy. </p>
<p>The government has multiple job openings at the present working with vets and their family. Every posted opening I have found requires the MA in art therapy. </p>
<p>While I can certainly see how social work, occupational therapy, and education could help further a career, I’m not sure calling yourself an art therapist would be an accurate depiction of your training. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen or the person isn’t good at their job, but they weren’t trained as an art therapist. Maybe I am not looking at it in the right light, though? I am always open to seeing things from a different angle!</p>
<p>The teacher who my oldest had ( as her classroom teacher) for three years in elementary, ( & who taught the Bezos& Gates kids), worked as an art therapist at a state correctional facility for youth, years ago. Her education if I remember right was a MFA.( but I could be wrong- it could be in art therapy)</p>
<p>I also started a thread to encourage students to appreciate the level of instruction at lesser known schools.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1378188-who-professors.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1378188-who-professors.html</a>
There are great people at universities that some may dismiss, who are ready for students who want to make the most out of their time in undergrad.</p>
<p>Wakeup- check the licensing requirements for the states where she may want to work. I know in NY to get licensed you either need an MA in Art Therapy, or what they call a “Substantially Equivalent” education- which could be a Master’s in a bunch of other programs as long as the content meets certain criteria and the student gets in enough hours in a supervised internship or student teaching type situation. That’s how people with OT or Early Childhood education get those jobs- once you are licensed it doesn’t matter what your degree was in, and since you can get the license from a variety of different programs, it gives you a lot of flexibility.</p>
<p>I don’t think it matters what you call yourself. Once you have a license as an art therapist, you are qualified for jobs that require licensing whether they are in geriatric facilities, rehab centers, prisons, hospitals, etc. My guess is that only the military and some public school systems are going to distinguish between an MA in Art Therapy and an MA in something else as long as the applicant is licensed.</p>
<p>“However, in general, I’d say a person with great grades from a mediocre college can often get as many or more opportunities for advancement than someone with mediocre grades from a high-end school.”</p>
<p>This is opposite the standards of practice in my profession. Sensitivity of employers to the undergraduate institution evidently varies depending on the discipline and profession, as others have stated. In some fields, employers don’t care or even know that much about more difficult undergraduate schools (“Haverford? Where is that?”), and there may not be much selectivity beyond just having the base credentials. </p>
<p>You might agree that an art student at RISD or a music student at Juilliard will tend to have more skill and capability than those less rigorously selected attending a community college; likewise an engineering student at MIT compared to smaller state programs with less knowledgeable professorial staff and perhaps less intelligent or motivated student body.</p>
<p>Based on my direct experience with community college educators and lesser-selective state school graduates, there is a substantial difference in awareness, knowledge, and capability, but not necessarily motivation.</p>
<p>I have companion thoughts to Polar’s about school reps and employers. </p>
<p>Sure, high level finance wants what it considers the best. Sure, a rigorous STEM program at a prestigious, wealthy school, with plenty of grants for research, can prepare a STEM kid better and sound better than Brand X. We all know that. The same can be said for many fields. And, much of a kid’s college education, how smart he/she really comes out, how good one’s judgment is, reasoning, analytical and commication skills, etc, can depend on the level of classes, the quality of teachers and peers. </p>
<p>But, the rest of the story? Some hiring managers will know the top schools around the country. Many don’t- look at the suggestion here, on a college forum, that people don’t know Carleton, Mac and whatever. How many hiring managers do you really think know Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona? (How many even know Wellesley is all female?)</p>
<p>So, so many will know only their top local schools, someplace a friend went or the best kid in their hs class, the sport powerhouses that hit the media all the time- and, at the very least, most know the names of the 50 states and major cities.</p>
<p>So, you can get an odd situation. What Polar suggests, “Haverford? Where is that?” Say you went to U of FL and everyone knows the name.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to sell UFl, just pointing out that name recognition is a funny thing.</p>
<p>Grad school: they’ll know far more about which schools, at the start, offer a better, deeper, broader prep to students. They’ll look at transcripts and see the nature of the courses taken. But OP already spoke with at least one who said, for her D’s interest area, it’s not the UG college name, it’s the kid.</p>