Does Kelley Partition its Students?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Indiana University - Bloomington
1

I’m interested in Kelley, but as I was digging up info on them I realized that they “divide” their students up into two distinct sections. One of them is the “smart” kids and the rest are the “normal” kids.

Everyone always talks about all the workshops and opportunities available at Kelley, but in order to actually get into those, you need to apply. Every single opportunity has its own application. You need to apply for the consulting workshop, you need to apply for the investment workshop, you need to apply for the mentor program, etc. It seemed to me that the kids who got into these programs are the “smart” kids and those who don’t are the “normal” students.

All of these opportunities are self-described as “highly selective”. Does this mean that, if you don’t get into these workshops or programs, are you screwed? It seems like IU just dumps the rest of its kids on the side of the road and says “good luck”.

The most startling thing is that a number of these programs use your high school data as part of the application process. They ask for your GPA, SAT score, and have essays about what you did before you came to IU. It’s like you have to apply for college all over again. The gist I’m getting is that college is not a new chapter of life, instead, that B in Algebra 1 from 8th grade will come back to haunt you 6 years later.

Is this true that Kelley has two different partitions of students? At first glance it seems like the wonderful opportunities at IU aren’t for everyone. I’m just wondering what happens to the kids that don’t get into those workshops and other programs.

2

Chris, it is hard to imagine a post having more misinformation about the opportunities for hard working students at Kelley.

You say that “The most startling thing is that a number of these programs use your high school data as part of the application process.” Do you really think that high school gpa has anything to do with getting accepted to these workshops? Which workshops ask for hs gpa? They usually ask for SAT/ACT scores, but lots of employers do the same, as those scores are seen by many as reliable intelligence tests. Of course the workshops look for smart people; but they must also be highly motivated and hard-working.

You see specialized workshops as negatives for IU Kelley? Note that nobody gets into any of the workshops straight out of high school. Many are accepted during the second semester of sophomore year; many workshops accept students at the end of junior year. Why?, because Kelley makes you earn your way into the workshops through your hard work after matriculating to IUB-- through coursework, developing networking and interview skills, and not least importantly because you know enough through your exposure to many branches of business learned at Kelley freshman and sophomore years to know what you want to focus on after your career and you demonstrate the dedication to achieve your career goals. You say that “It seemed to me that the kids who got into these programs are the “smart” kids and those who don’t are the “normal” students.” Don’t underestimate the number of students who come to IU and make themselves “smart” through hard work, networking, etc., and the many opportunities to get accepted into prestigious workshops based on what you do from your freshman year forward – not in high school.

For example,

 If you don’t get direct admit, you can excel freshman year and be accepted to Kelley. This board has student posters over the years who were not direct admits yet were accepted into Kelley honors the same time they applied to Kelley standard admission. None of these students could even meet Kelley’s relatively low hs gpa and standardized test scores to be accepted as direct admits, yet they got into the honors program through hard work during freshman year – not during high school.

 You post on another thread that you did not get into Purdue’s honors program based on your high school stats. At IUB, you are guaranteed admission to Hutton Honors – regardless of high school stats—by getting a minimum 3.7 gpa your first semester at IU. Hutton is not the same as Kelley honors, but Hutton honors designation will help you with getting into specialized workshops later. Again, this is a reward for your hard work while at IU.

 The most prestigious workshop is the Investment Banking Workshop. It requires a minimum 3.5 gpa to apply during second semester of sophomore year; probably atleast 70% of Kelley students will still have gpa’s that high. Look at the resumes of IBW members and you will find many that are are not in Kelley Honors and many with gpa’s below 3.8. These are not high gpa’s for Kelley students in only their sophomore year. And if you don’t get accepted into the Investment Banking Workshop, there is the Investment Banking Seminar to be taken during senior year, membership in which will get you interviews with many big banks.

I hope this shows that Kelley/IU gives you opportunity after opportunity to prove and better yourself each year at Kelley/IU, regardless of what you did in high school.

3

Thanks for the clarification @bthomp1.

Here’s another perspective I’d like to share. My DS is a prospective student, directly admitted to Kelley. Our concern is that Kelley has a relatively low bar for admittance. The possibility of two tiers of Kelley students is actually a positive. We have scheduled a campus visit. We wish to see what the school has to offer students, who are interested in a fairly high amount of rigor.

4

@bthomp1‌ I’m actually a senior right now and am a Kelley Direct Admit. I plan on attending Indiana next year, but I was intriuged at your statistic that 70% of Kelley Student will have a gpa of 3.5 or higher. I also noticed that the avergae kelley gpa given by the kelley school of business is 3.42. Could you please elaborate on gpa’s for kelley since they do seem to be relatively high.

5

I’m mostly worried because I didn’t do so well in high school, and it seems to me that IU is EXTREMELY hardcore numbers based.

For example, the application to get into IU just recently added an essay. Before that, your application was pretty much 100% GPA and test score. Furthermore, the Kelley direct admit and Hutton honors college are 100% based on GPA and test score. The scholarships are also 100% GPA and test score.

All of this really affects me, as I got a 36 ACT score, which easily met the requirements for the above opportunities, but I have a 3.6 GPA, which was lower than the eligibility requirements. So to me, I already feel like I’ve been “cheated” out of a number of opportunities.

Yeah, I could petition for the direct admit and Hutton Honors, but I’ll never be eligible for honors scholarships or even normal scholarships. I didn’t even receive the Selective Scholarship Application (SSA) because my GPA was so low.

I’m afraid that my high shool GPA will continue to haunt me throughout my college career at Kelley with similar things like this. Pretty much, I got a 36 ACT so I’m confident that I can do the work, but as demonstrated before my low GPA straight up bars me from many opportunities. I want to know if this actually will hurt me in the future.

And @bthomp1, I was looking at the mentor/mentee program application and right at the top is a field asking for your high school GPA. The program pairs you with an older Kelley student and an MBA student, which would be really beneficial. But the application doesn’t even ask for SAT/ACT score, which, in my case, is a really bad thing.

So can anyone give advice? Are my fears true or not?

6

@chris2 While your high school GPA is a big factor in Kelley Direct Admit, Hutton Honors and selective scholarships, you will find that soon after you begin your IU education, high school GPA no longer matters. From what I understand, the Business Honors and Workshop applications do not consider high school GPA at all. For those things, it will be important to build up a strong college resume - excellent grades and demonstrated leadership in activities. I was not familiar with the mentorship program you mentioned, but I looked up the application and I do see they ask for quite a bit more than just high school GPA. Since I’m not familiar with the program, I don’t know how important high school GPA is, but it seems like they are looking for people with diverse backgrounds. Also, although it is true that you are not eligible for the Selective Scholarships or Hutton Honors scholarships, there are other scholarships available. Visit this site for more info:
https://scholarships.indiana.edu/scholarships/school-college-department/index.html
It may be true there is some “partitioning” of students at Kelley, but I think very little of it is based on high school GPA, and much of it is based on what you do once you get to IU. And just because some of the more specialized experiences may be given to those students in honors programs or workshops, that doesn’t mean that there are VERY EXCELLENT opportunities for the “regular” Kelley students. As a parent of a current sophomore, I have been extremely impressed with the education and career services that are available to ALL Kelley students.

7

Chris2 said: “Furthermore, the Kelley direct admit and Hutton honors college are 100% based on GPA and test score.”

Your statement is not accurate: Did you petition for Kelley direct admit? I can almost guarantee you that anybody who petitions for direct admit with a 36 ACT and a 3.6 hs gpa will be accepted to Kelley through the petition process. And if you do get accepted as a direct admit, you will be eligible for Kelley scholarships your freshman year. You will have to compete with students with higher hs gpa’s, but what other criteria do you expect Kelley would use? It is only reasonable to include hs gpa in selecting freshman scholarships.

You can also petition to Hutton and enter Hutton as a freshman with a 3.6 gpa:
“By Petition: If you are not selected to apply to the Hutton Honors College and you have been admitted to IUB, you may petition for admission to our program. We are especially interested in highly motivated students who have taken advanced placement, accelerated, or honors courses in high school, and who show evidence of creativity and leadership, as well as a demonstrated interest in participating in the HHC curriculum and community. If your petition is approved and you are selected for invitation, you will not be eligible to apply for the Hutton Honors College Scholarship, but you will be able to take advantage of all the other opportunities all HHC students enjoy.”

And after your first semester of freshman year, you can still get into Hutton:
“Students who do not enter the Hutton Honors College as incoming freshmen may still be eligible for admission if their academic work during their first semester at IU is outstanding. After completion of that semester, you may ask that your record be reviewed if you are interested in participating in Hutton Honors College courses and programs. To be considered for admission at that time, you must have completed, during your first full semester at IU, a minimum of 14 graded academic credits (grades of S for Satisfactory will not be counted), and you must have maintained a 3.7 GPA.”

Chris2 wrote: ?but I have a 3.6 GPA, which was lower than the eligibility requirements. So to me, I already feel like I’ve been “cheated” out of a number of opportunities."

3.6 is in the bottom half of IU’s entering freshmen. At least 16,000 entering freshmen have a higher gpa than 3.6. I don’t think it is unreasonable to exclude that many students from university scholarships, especially since IU is a public school. From what I have seen, IU respects and rewards hard work, and 3.6 is a pretty average hs gpa. Some schools place a higher emphasis on standardized test scores, which are good measures of intelligence. I don’t know how you can conclude that you have been “cheated” out of some opportunities because of the 3.6 gpa when that gpa is in the bottom half of IU entering freshmen. That hs gpa won’t have any influence on your opportunities at IU, as others in Kelley have already stated. And if you petitioned for direct admit, then I am sure you would be or are already accepted to Kelley for your outstanding ACT score.

Chris2 wrote: “And @bthomp1, I was looking at the mentor/mentee program application and right at the top is a field asking for your high school GPA. The program pairs you with an older Kelley student and an MBA student, which would be really beneficial. But the application doesn’t even ask for SAT/ACT score, which, in my case, is a really bad thing.”

It is a mentoring program. It is not an application for a specialized workshop or something that has a big impact on your career choices. If it is the KODI program, it is mostly to help you adjust socially to being a minority college student at a large university.

8

and0ne101

I was referring to gpa at the end of sophomore year when many workshops accept applications, and 70% at 3.5 gpa at end of sophomore year is probably closer to like 55%. GPAs tend to take a big hit in the upper level classes jr and sr year, when most professors grade to a curve where 2.9-3.0 is the median grade. Direct admits and Hutton honors students by the end of sophomore year can have much higher gpa’s than standard admits because they can avoid tough grading classes that standard admits cannot avoid because they are required to apply standard admit. Freshman and sophomore year is the time to build a high gpa before the almost inevitable decline in jr and sr year. The 3.42 you mention is probably for Kelley students at graduation.

Kelley honors ave gpa was 3.787 for the group of 143 3rd year Kelley honors students that took honors Icore in Fall 2013 per the grade distribution report.
http://registrar.indiana.edu/reporting/reports/grade-distribution/4138_report2a.shtml#BL-BUS

There are probably at least 200 Kelley direct admit students in every entering freshman Hutton class. They probably had high gpa’s at end of sophomore year. There were 197 in 2010-2011.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC4QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiana.edu%2F~iubhonor%2Fhds%2Fannualreport201011.pdf&ei=A7PiVPXQM_DasASRgoGABA&usg=AFQjCNHGoQlI9ST7y1lhY6ijFeufIxSgmQ&bvm=bv.85970519,d.cWc&cad=rja

see page 13 of Hutton annual report

9

Thank you for the clarification!

10

ONE of the ultimate goals of college is to get a job, keeping that in mind, Kelley has a 94% job placement rate.