Does school have to "hurt" to be good?

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
41

Speaking of mental illness, my daughter reports that a friend of hers got nailed on the face by a clock thrown by the girl’s roommate. It took a few stitches to close up the wound. The injured girl declined to make a big deal out of the incident, so there’s no word on any disciplinary proceedings–though you can be sure that if a boy had done this he would be long gone.

My daughter says the girl who threw the clock is being driven bats by her mother’s constant texting. I’m surprised to hear the extent to which some parents are all over their boarding school kids. Wouldn’t it be easier to just keep them at home if you want to be that kind of parent?

It seems that even at the same school, the day to day experiences of kids vary significantly. We tend to be hands-off parents, though it’s hard not to get involved sometimes. As a general rule, no news is good news. We receive texts from our kid now and then–but seldom a phone call. If we want to know what she’s up to, we check out her finsta postings. We almost never hear from her advisor–she gives my daughter a lot of space, but she’s there if needed. The kid seems to be going through school happily on her own.

Contrast this with another of my daughter’s friends, whose mother has apparently conspired with the academic dean to stay on top of this high-performing kid. The mom even insisted that the girl attend nightly study hall, which is optional for kids in good academic standing. No reports of thrown objects, fortunately, for this girl.

42

I have heard some stories of major and minor mental illness. The former doesn’t belong at boarding school. Nor does anyone who throws a clock at a roommate. But for the latter, it seems that whatever support a school provides has to balance with what parents permit. For instance, my daughter has a friend who needs antidepressants but has parents who don’t want her to take them. I also get the distinct impression that many of the kids with anxiety and depression come from very dysfunctional families (no surprise there). Maybe some of those kids are better off at boarding school. Still, there are plenty of problems with teens who stay home. NIMH says 46% of teens experience mental illness at some point and 21% have a “severe” disorder at some point, making mental illness in teens common enough to be normal. Having been a teen, I can’t say that I’m surprised.

43

I have 2 close friends who have pulled very high performing daughters from top tier BS for anxiety and depression which they ascribed to difficult social dynamics. Both from very functional and loving families, but BS environment was simply too competitive /stressful.

Both did much better living at home as students at very good, but less amped up, day schools. For some kids, the social environment of BS, coupled with, or perhaps fueled by (?) academic pressure was unhealthy for them.

At one of the schools much beloved here on CC, a faculty member told me that close to 25% of the students were on some kind of meds for mental health at some point during their time there. The good part of that is that there is no stigma. The question, if it’s true, is how much the school aggravates this propensity in these students.

44

God help anyone if they threw anything at my DD! She might be little but she is mighty!

DD reports a lot of severe social anxiety- so much so that some of these students don’t leave their rooms for dinner or can’t talk to anyone without medication. She has seen cases of cutting, anorexia, bulimia, OCD, and severe depression. Several classmates were told that they could not return unless they recieved counseling over the summer or over holiday breaks. This could be teenagers acting out or learned behavior from other teenagers? She was also told by upper formers that a student can miss one full trimester and still graduate- that “a lot” of students take health leaves for that reason. I’m not sure if this is true, or just upper formers being melodramatic… junior and senior year is tough, but taking time off was never an option in my day.

My DD infers that type A students are just wired differently. They are high strung. When thrown together so intimately the competition can be intense for some. She hates the “fish bowl” environment of BS. There is nowhere to escape and be alone. You do everything with everyone watching you- and for kids that are independent, especially those with hands off parents, the “fish bowl” can be tough.

When one of my DD friends left school on a health leave last spring, my DD was forced to go see the school’s counselor. They just wanted to make sure she was ok. She liked it so much she asked us if she could go next year. She just liked having a grown up to talk to about her classes and her problems that wasn’t connected to her dorm- a substitute mom so to speak! DD said it helped relieve her stress.

45

Does boarding school in general aggravate/exacerbate mental health issues? How much of it is made worse by being away from home? Or is it primarily due to the competitive environment? Are some schools worse than others in terms of driving kids to the brink? Are some schools better than others at supporting kids with mental health issues?
This topic is top of mind since there was another suicide this morning at a nearby high school (one of the “best” public high schools in the country, according to the press.)

46

I think its really difficult to speculate what type of school environment breeds mental health illness- stress, sleep deprivation, and some social anxiety sure, but mental illness? And some students thrive in these high stress environments. Many issues don’t even become apparent until the student is older and away from home the first time.
I don’t have the

47

(sorry… sent to soon) I don’t have the article in front of me, but Stanford commented awhile back on the number of incoming students with mental health issues. I do not think this is a BS issue but rather a growing problem with our teens nationally. What worries us after talking to our DD was how does the school support the needs of these students while protecting their other students simultaneously- Obviously the girl who threw the clock needs help- but should her roommare have to live with that?

48

Allow me to qualify what perhaps sounded like a flippant take on the incident I reported in my last post. I’m not suggesting that the girl who threw the clock suffers from any particular “mental illness.” Apart from organically based brain disorders, I’m not sure what constitutes a mental illness or if such a thing even exists–as I no longer put any store in what the highly political DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) has to say.

I would say only that the girl who threw the clock sounds stressed beyond her ability to cope. That’s sad. And I’m actually glad that the girl was not asked to leave–assuming that she does not repeat such a gesture. I believe kids should be given additional chances, as long as they’re not manifestly dangerous–and I suppose the act in question (clock chuck) was right on the edge of what constitutes behavior that should lead to immediate expulsion.

I am more concerned that boys seem to be judged more severely for their inappropriate conduct (such as writing their own names on a cardboard hat). It’s getting tougher and tougher to be a boy on some campuses. And I’m sure some third-wave feminist theorist somewhere would even be able to make the case that the patriarchy is to blame for this clock-hurling girl’s behavior–and that the school is somehow creating a hostile environment for girls.

But, once again, we may be getting off topic. In this thread I am interested to learn about environments where school-generated demands (e.g., workload, competitive atmosphere, heavy-handed teachers and coaches, etc.) raise the stress level to the point where kids are getting sick or committing antisocial acts as a result–if such environments actually exist. That many students seem to thrive in even the most rigorous environments seems to suggest that it may not necessarily be the particular school culture that is the critical factor.

It has been reported that on the battlefield, some soldiers are emotionally overwhelmed before the first shot is fired–while others are able to maintain their emotional stability for months at a stretch in the face of the most horrible conditions. Yet regardless of how strong a soldier is, he will eventually succumb to “battle fatigue,” as they used to call it, if he remains in combat long enough. It’s just a matter of time.

I suspect the same is true with schools. Most kids will make it through the year in good-enough emotional condition. There will always be some individuals, however, who will adapt less well. (My daughter happens to find the mosh pit at school dances the perfect setting to shed a lot stress, even when–or especially when?–it means coming away bruised and bloodied!) The question then is how hard a particular school wants to push kids in light of the observable consequences.

49

Ack! What sort of school lets kids get “bruised and bloodied” at dances? I have a feeling the boarding school experience is even more variable than I realized.

50

Ok, I’m going to chime in again to what I think has been a specious topic. Our son was home recently, and I asked him what he thought about the stress and rigor of BS and now college, how he handled it, and did he think these schools should dial back a notch or two for the sanity of their students. He’s a prime example of a kid under pressure as Choate is not one of the nurturing boarding schools and he’s now at a service academy, so out of the frying pan and into the fire for him. His response was a version of what I posted before, “Some kids just choose the wrong schools.” He laughed at the thought of the military dialing it back a notch. So did I.

I will repeat, these environments are not for everyone. If a child is suffering, s/he is probably in the wrong place. Make a better choice. There ARE alternatives. No need to change the MOs of any particular school, just do a better job of finding a good fit for the child.

51

Yep…and true with the college search too…not everyone belongs at HYPS…not even all smart kids.

52

I just can’t. The half-dozen kids from said school that I know well (not all mine) have an entirely different school experience than what’s described here.

Please advise your children to take only the number and type of classes they can handle. Please insist that they listen to their academic adviser, who probably is telling them the exact same thing. Please make sure they take advantage of the multiple academic help and mental health resources offered by the school. And please get off their backs about grades, leadership positions, and number of clubs and extracurriculars. No one’s gonna miss the college bus.

High fives to @ChoatieMom.

53

While these stressful environments are most assuredly not for everyone, they may not even be the best thing for those who can take it. Lawrenceville has been weighing the question, so it would seem to be a topic on at least one school’s collective mind.

And it’s hardly reassuring that a boarding school constitutes a fitting preparation for a military academy, a place where young people are being trained for executive positions in the military, an institution whose dedicated purpose is killing people. Whether it be at an elite boarding school or a military academy, the reigning ethos–an institutionalized celebration of petty hierarchies, competition for the sake of competition, and all things gloriously macho–is essentially the same.

What often results is an individual who has fully, uncritically bought into whatever military or corporate system he finds himself in, one who is suitably equipped to follow orders, no matter how destructive or unethical they may be–whether it’s destroying a village to save it, or firing thousands of workers and switching to overseas labor. After all, his career advancement depends upon his loyalty to institutional goals–which, sadly, in both the military and the corporation is nothing more nor less than maximizing shareholder value. (And for those who are uncertain about the military-corporate profit nexus, I commend to you an article about West Point written by the incomparable Gore Vidal.)

54

Part I

Although it is most definitely not my aim to take gratuitous pot shots at elite boarding schools, I am never disinclined to consider the values that underlie such institutions, the unacknowledged, implicit values that many parents on this forum seemingly seldom consider in their keen zest to sing the praises of their child’s school and boarding schools in general. Moreover, these values are not unique to these schools, but rather reflect our society as a whole. After all, these schools are simply fulfilling a societal role–one that is not necessarily entirely of their own making.

The American job market is more competitive than it was seventy-five or even fifty years ago–hence, we see elite schools emphasizing competitive achievement more than they did back in the age of the “gentleman’s C.” It’s a simple chain: elite employers seek to hire graduates of elite colleges; elite colleges prepare students for those employers; and elite high schools prepare students for those colleges. I’m just wondering, now, if this recent emphasis on individual academic achievement is taking undue precedence over providing the best possible education, one that prepares students not just for a career, but for life.

How much should we be encouraging competition for competition’s sake, even among the most outstanding students? At what point does an individual’s desire to get an education, to maximize his value as both an individual and a member of society, to make meaningful contributions for the benefit of his own and future generations, turn into something else–into a seemingly unrelated, single-minded effort to simply be the best?

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Part II

To present the issue in concrete terms, let’s assume a class of fifteen students at an elite boarding school. They are all motivated and capable. When asked to prepare an assignment, they all dutifully and competently fulfill the task.

Nonetheless, some of these students have invested three hours in the assignment, while others have invested six. Not surprisingly, there is a small though discernible difference in the quality of their work. It’s a negligible difference, though it’s enough to serve as the basis for distinguishing among the students. Those who put in three hours get a “B”; those who put in six, an “A.”

It all appears unobjectionable on the face of it. Better work, however slightly better, should be rewarded, right? Well, not necessarily, perhaps. I think we must consider the opportunity costs of producing the nominally superior work product.

There are always numerous alternatives to investing those additional three hours in study. We must consider whether the student is shortchanging himself by neglecting those alternatives. For example, does the student have to limit sleep time or pop a friend’s Ritalin in order to do the additional preparation, thereby jeopardizing his health? And if not sleep, what else is that student passing up–extracurricular activities, community service, friendship? At what point does the investment of the extra three hours become a bad investment, one that requires the sacrifice of other activities that may arguably be more valuable to the individual and the community?

While there is some recognition for achievement in extracurricular activities, there is less for community service, and seemingly none whatsoever for friendship (which may, in fact, be the most valuable investment of one’s time of all). The primary determinant of a student’s value remains his academic performance. So, it’s not irrational that the student should invest additional time in academic pursuits, even if it means shortchanging other areas.

What, then, is the message that is conveyed to these students? Is it that finishing first is always preferable to finishing second? That finishing first is so important that deemphasizing other equally valuable (though not equally acknowledged or rewarded) pursuits is always justified? That when the rewards are great enough–as they sometimes are in the minds of our most competitive students–just about any sacrifice, indeed, is justified?

What are we ultimately acknowledging and rewarding with the “A”? Ruthlessness? A single-minded dedication to advancing one’s own interests, by whatever means and no matter what the cost? At what point does the quest for personal achievement become a borderline antisocial act? I cannot imagine that I’m the only one who sees an eerie similarity between our current societal ethos and that of the television program “The Apprentice.”

56

Late to the party. My thoughts on a few comments posted here:

“My DD was surprised how many BS students were struggling with various forms of mental health issues ( not related to ADD/ADHD ) but more severe anxiety/depression/addiction… thoughts?”

I think BS and students living at home struggle with these issues. We just don’t know it when we hang with a a student from 8am to 3pm every day. We see the meds line at the health center at BS. We don’t see the public school kid getting his/her dose in the privacy of their own home. Easier to hide things when it isn’t 24/7 living. Similar to people and their marriages. How many of us have witnessed marriages we thought were decent only to see it dissolve? Go on vacation with these folks for a week or two and I bet you’d probably figure out there were cracks in the veneer.

“The injured girl declined to make a big deal out of the incident, so there’s no word on any disciplinary proceedings–though you can be sure that if a boy had done this he would be long gone.”

“I am more concerned that boys seem to be judged more severely for their inappropriate conduct (such as writing their own names on a cardboard hat).”

I’m not buying this. I don’t know all the ins and outs of the chicken wing hat incident but don’t equate throwing an item in a burst of anger with a long running contest of a misogynistic nature - one that students had been warned not to engage in repeatedly due to past events and school rules/training/consequences. If boys get disciplined more frequently, it is because they push the boundaries and break rules more frequently. As a parent of a male and female, I did not witness unfairness in discipline related to gender.

"Please advise your children to take only the number and type of classes they can handle. Please insist that they listen to their academic adviser, who probably is telling them the exact same thing. Please make sure they take advantage of the multiple academic help and mental health resources offered by the school. And please get off their backs about grades, leadership positions, and number of clubs and extracurriculars. No one’s gonna miss the college bus.’

Agree with this statement based on our family’s experiences. It’s not the schools pushing the rigor, but often the parents who want their kid in the highest section, more classes, etc. Schools will also tell families not to come with college matriculation as a good but many families push and want specific college outcomes as a goal.

“Nonetheless, some of these students have invested three hours in the assignment, while others have invested six. Not surprisingly, there is a small though discernible difference in the quality of their work. It’s a negligible difference, though it’s enough to serve as the basis for distinguishing among the students. Those who put in three hours get a “B”; those who put in six, an “A.””

Lots of students don’t fit either scenario. Some of the best students I knew invested less time but still got great grades. Goes back to fit in many cases. Some don’t use their time wisely and productively. Some are in over their heads.

57

My children are being trained at boarding school to blindly follow orders “no matter how destructive or unethical they may be”? This also is news to me. I suppose I’m dreadfully naïve. But we’ve already started paying for the school year, and besides, they’ve already been indoctrinated. They will just have to go back to school and continue their ruthless climb toward their rightful places as overlords in the military-industrial complex.

58

Evidently, Choate prepared my son to be a killer (hopefully an accurate one).

Parents: The BS websites totally hide all this from you. Thank heaven you can get the truth from CC.

New Applicants: It’s perfectly OK to ask an AO what type of overlord their school specializes in creating, but make sure you only apply to schools that will train you to be the type of destructive, unethical, ruthless beast you really wish to be. Don’t waste applications.

59

@Choatiemom, all I can say is: :smiley:

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@donfefe: I can pretty much guarantee that most boarding schools produce individuals capable of determining their own future goals AND of having the intellectual means to get there. Military or not, each kid is free to follow his own “heart” and will be ready both in maturity and in academic rigor. Equating the individual choice of one kid with the over-arching goals of all boarding schools is a bit much.

This does NOT mean that any kid for whom boarding school is not the right choice, has no means of accomplishing goals nor does it mean there are predetermined paths predicated on school choice.

Rather: there are many, many paths to success. There are, equally, many definitions of success. It is a personal journey and the best way to fulfillment is also personal choice.