<p>I have been looking into colleges for my daughter who is a junior this year and a soprano, and we always seem to be told that talent trumps academics for music schools admission. Is this really true? I am sure many of you have had these types of conversations.</p>
<p>A little background. My daughter has been very involved in classical competitions and choral honor choirs since 8th grade. She is an average student (GPA fluctuates between 3.1 and 3.4) but has not taken advantage of any AP classes besides Music Theory and has primarily focused on her music. She is also a pianist and a percussionist. </p>
<p>I guess I am asking this question because I have heard how difficult it is to get in to schools such as Northwestern, NYU or USC without the academic background.</p>
<p>Talent can trump academics, my D had a similar GPA (3.5) as a high school senior,was a soprano (now a mezzo) and she was accepted at several schools that had fairly high academic standards. That being said, it’s specifically the audition that counts. They may or may not take into account her choral honors or her talent as a percussionist or as a pianist.</p>
<p>What you were told is true at some schools, but not at others. At schools like the ones you mention, academics do indeed play a substantial part. The way it plays out can be a little different at each school. At some, you have to be accepted academically before you can apply as a music major. At others the two parts happen at the same time. At others still the music department must accept you first and then the admissions office reviews your application to the college.</p>
<p>In general, a great audition can overcome weak academics to some degree, but some schools have a minimum threshold below which they will not admit regardless of how good the audition was. This also varies from school to school as does the amount of pull that the music department can exert for someone who had an outstanding audition but marginal academics.</p>
<p>There are many other schools where the academics are much less important than musical ability. At many stand-alone conservatories, musical ability counts for everything so long as the student and the teacher can communicate.</p>
<p>Please realize that soprano vocalists and pianists are among the most competitive of music school admits, along with flutists and violinists. The bar is going to be very high for admission alone and even higher if the academics are marginal.</p>
<p>While there is no such thing as a safety school when an audition is involved, it is important to consider at least a couple of schools that are less competitive and affordable. Some students decide to apply to a range of schools while others apply to only the top echelon and reason that they will either study something else or take a gap year if not accepted.</p>
<p>The way I have come to look at it is that academics in terms of admissions to music programs (I am talking music performance) is sort of like pay is in workplace satisfaction, it is never be a positive, at best it can be neutral. </p>
<p>For schools like Umich, NYU, etc, they seem to have a minimum standard for music admits that needs to be met academically. On the other hand, I have seen nothing that indicates that when going into an auditioned program that great academics will trump a less then stellar audition, while on the converse, as bassdad and others wrote, a stellar audition might trump less then stellar academics. The academics can drag you out of being admitted, but cannot drag you into it. </p>
<p>Conservatories unless someone is a total mess up in school don’t give weight to academics, it is all about the audition.</p>
<p>Hhmmm, I don’t hold hard and fast to the statement that conservatories don’t give weight to academics, having been told otherwise by admissions officers. While they are not given the importance that they would be if one wants to major in astrophysics at an Ivy League school, grades are looked at to break “ties” between two relatively equal students and some conservatories, Rice and CIM for instance, require full academic course loads as well.
Your D’s solid B average should be fine, but have her remember not to let it slide as “senioritis” attacks next year!</p>
<p>It seems every year there are those lamenting the cost of trying to attend schools for music and debating trying to take out loans or forgo their top choices. One way to increase merit awards is to have very good grades and scores. Not all but some schools award academic funds in addition to the music ones. And in some OOS U’s it can make the cost come in at the in-state rate. It pays to try to have a superior academic record in addition to the audition. The competition does. So even though the audition may trump academics in some places, that is not necessarily the end of the story.</p>
<p>Northwestern, NYU or USC are not just music schools, they are top notch Universities first, that have music schools- hence the emphasis on grades first. </p>
<p>“There are many other schools where the academics are much less important than musical ability. At many stand-alone conservatories, musical ability counts for everything so long as the student and the teacher can communicate.”
This is correct.</p>
<p>This year, I got into both NYU and USC for Recorded Music and Popular Music, respectively. My unweighted GPA hovers around 3.5 and my weighted is about 4.3. Last year I took AP Lang/Comp and the test for AP Music Theory prior to taking the course. I ended up with a 4 in Lang and subscores of 2 and 4 on Theory. This year I’m taking AP Lit/Comp and AP Music Theory, expecting to get a 4 on Lit and a 5 on both parts of Theory. My SAT score was 1360 CR+Math, 2000 total. </p>
<p>Having been through the process, I know that grades are still important for fairly prestigious universities. However, if your daughter is on the bottom end of their academic middle range or just slightly below it, they’ll probably give her some leeway academically if the music program really wants her.</p>
<p>Wow! This is such a great venue. I appreciate all of your comments. We are just starting tp make her list of colleges and conservatories to apply to, so I know all of your advice will come in handy!</p>
<p>We have checked each college’s website for academic standards and some have them listed and some do not. I am sure test scores will also help her. Anyone want to share their experiences with regards to the average test scores and GPAs at music schools?</p>
<p>One perspecitve to have is that it is a little like being a D1 athlete. Depends on how bad the music people want you how much the grades matter. The more your daughter knocks their socks off musically the more the music people will work on admissions to get her in their music school if she is on the edge of their academic standards.</p>
<p>I love that, raddad! We are certainly hoping to “knock their socks off” at the audition! So far, she is doing just that. but as a mom, I fear I am AGONIZING abour the academics! Guess I need to lighten up!</p>
<p>raddad is probably right. 3.87 unweighted/1940 SAT. Senior grades did slip a bit and only 4 total AP’s. Stellar audition.
No go at Northwestern despite all 3 clarinet professors begging administration.
Might have been different if the applicant was a superstar or on a less competitive instrument. We are happy though with how things ended up. Great advice I got from this board is not to apply anywhere you don’t really like.</p>
<p>A student of mine had the same experience with Northwestern. She is an excellent violinist (first chair all-state orchestra 2 years running), excellent GPA, and she still got wait-listed. We aren’t even going to try for Northwestern. Not interested in the cold lake effect weather!</p>
<p>CLRN8MOM, I’m glad you wrote that. My D4 is actually going to be an acting major (I read this section for D3, a musician.) Northwestern was on her long list because so many people speak so highly of their theater program, but her stats are similar to your daughter’s (except mine has fewer APs.) Her chances would be so slim-- it seems like it would be a waste of an application fee.</p>
<p>glassharmonica, I hesitated to write in. Each case is different and if you otherwise like the school I would say go for it, but just recognize that it may be a reach and find other places you love just as much. Also, they look at which high school each student is coming from and take that into consideration. We visited Northwestern 2 years ago and were told that my D’s stats (she pretty much performed academically about what we expected) were “in the ballpark” for music admits, but I guess things have changed, and compared to other applicants from our large, competitive high school her stats were low.</p>
<p>Best advice so far - don’t apply anywhere you don’t really like!</p>
<p>I loved the Northwestern campus. Visited with a friend who is an alumni for homecoming and was treated like royalty! We went to a session with their admissions department and they said, as CLRN8MOM stated, that Northwestern really tries to take students from diverse backgrounds, including taking into account the high school student was from. After the session, I felt D wasn’t Northwestern material, as academics were so highly stressed.</p>
<p>Excellent thread violadad. Thank you for that. </p>
<p>I have always felt that there is a college out there for everyone, you just have to keep looking! Some students aren’t a good fit in these schools which require high academic stats.</p>