<p>One of my passionate hobbies is reading about and studying disparities between social groups. It interests me to find causes and solutions for social and economic mobility. It is one of the reasons how I stumbled across College Confidential, as I believe higher education is a key component to social mobility.</p>
<p>One of the common themes in these forums is the apparent relentless pursuit of not just an higher education, but an elite one. I came across this quote, and wondered how many CC'ers does this apply to in some shape or fashion?</p>
<p>
[quote]
"The one deep experience that distinguishes the social rich from the merely rich and those below is their schooling, and with it, all the associations, the sense and sensibility, to which this education routine leads throughout their lives.
As a selection and training place of the upper classes, both old and new, the private school is a unifying influence, a force for the nationalization of the upper class." C. Wright Mills, The Power Elite
<p>I didn’t know we’re supposed to be seeking the best possible education for our kids in order to make them merely rich or socially rich or part of the upper class. </p>
<p>Silly me. I’ve been doing it in order bring them closer to health, happiness, and safety. And, to me, depending on the interests of the child, that can be accomplished at the community college as well as HYP. </p>
<p>IMO, the key is to give our children choices. And, in our society, financial security begets choices. And one need not be rich or upper class to be financially secure. Cautious, diligent, and ethical usually works.</p>
<p>Is this talking about private secondary/prep schools, or is it making a distinction between private & public universities? To me it sounds as if it’s talking more about prep schools – the whole “old boy network” developed there, especially going back to the times when most prep school were all boys.</p>
<p>Might apply to some but not us. S plans to attend the school with the best overall fit. Among my family and friends, the degree obtained correlates better with financial success than the school attended.</p>
<p>Yep. Mills’ book was published in 1956, when elite schools were still made up largely of wealthy WASPs (the “social rich”) who were pretty much the definition of “upper class”. The socio-economic landscape has changed a great deal since then, and you can get into the “upper class” (which nowadays generally means that you make a whole lot of money) with a degree from anywhere. It’s much more about who you are than where you went to school.</p>
<p>I think it does for some posters. It seems that some of the folks on CC are the same folks that live in my community, a well-to-do suburb in the NE.
It would be nice to think that “it’s more about who you are than where you went to school.” But this just doesn’t seem to apply here in the years when you’re involved in the admissions process or attending colleges.
Kids who get into elite colleges get lots of props around here. Way to go. Awesome. Great job. Those who don’t or make other choices (and their parents) don’t hear much of this praise. Going to state U is for the common people (not many of those around here). Community college? Hmmm…
The pressure on the kids is out of control. Parents too. Even those who don’t start with elitist values get sucked in.
Tell you what…if I had another kid going through this process…I think I’d move.</p>
<p>We’re sort of grappling with this issue here. Albeit on a smaller scale. Daughter is seriously thinking of leaving her private school for CUNY because she thinks the private school doesn’t quite meet her needs. Makes a lot of practical sense in her case, but I’m having a hard time not feeling like we somehow failed and that she won’t have the quality of life she should.</p>
<p>While this book may have been published in 1956, this quote is an excerpt from the book, " A Framework For Understanding Poverty." In this book the author cites various “hidden rules” among social classes and illustrates how these rules, when applied, provide avenues towards the standard of living one seeks out. Education is key, and the author illustrates that within the various classes, the way education is valued and attained, illustrates some of the stratification that is among various groups of people.</p>
<p>As I reflect on the hundreds of threads and thousands of posts, it’s somewhat apparent that these “hidden rules” are either deliberately or subconciously being applied by a substantial amount of people here. Given the amount of preference that is given to the elite schools referenced on this site whether public or private, tends to give credence to the points of emphasis this particular author makes, IMO.</p>
<p>Older D went to CUNY for grad school and thought her classes were very good. She was humbled by classmates who were sacrificing a LOT to attend. She also respected the variety of backgrounds she encountered while she was there. There were so many different countries represented and for her this aspect added to her growth. Now, this was graduate school, so she may have had a different experience, but she is pretty positive about CUNY.</p>
<p>One point the author makes in the beginning of this particular chapter is, “if you fall mostly in the middle class, the assumption is that everyone knows these things.” </p>
<p>Read the posts on this forum and for those of us more knowlegeable, common sense isn’t that common. </p>
<p>One illustration is that among the three classes used as an illustration, poverty, middle class, and wealthy, is one as it realtes to lets say, Personality. </p>
<p>Among the poor, personality, is for entertainment. Sense of humor is highly valued.</p>
<p>Among the middle class, it is for acquisition and stability, Achievement is highly valued.</p>
<p>Among the wealthy, personality is for connections. Financial, political, social connections are highly valued.</p>
<p>This is just a small sampling of the various cultural “hidden rules” among various classes of people. Some are subtle, some not so.</p>
<p>Do some folks remember the PBS special on social class, People Like Us?
Fascinating. Lots of interesting observations on the differences in social classes…oh yes…these differences are still alive and well - perhaps a bit more under the surface.<br>
After watching it, I remember thinking I’d prefer to hang out with the folks that didn’t have much. Or the unpopular (and poor) high school kids.</p>
<p>With respect to colleges, we all like to say that finding the right fit is about finding quality. Well, I also see plenty who blindly pursue elite brands - of course they automatically assume that quality is there. The annoying part is that they also assume that quality is lacking for other less prestigious choices. Snobs really…</p>
<p>From my perspective, an elite education would provide our kids with the most choices in life from a social context. Elite grads can comfortably mix with the “cream” or hang out with the regular folk, at least in theory. Having graduated from a large public u, I never felt 100% comfortable in the company of the academically elite crowd, (but that could be a result of my own insecurity and not really related to my alma mater).</p>
<p>it’s not necessarily true that anyone can join the upper class by making tons of money though. In fact, self-made men are usually not accepted by members of the established upper class, instead being considered members of the “nouveau riche” class. And even if a child attended Andover and Harvard or Groton and Amherst, if they weren’t members of that established upper class from birth, they probably still won’t be considered members.</p>
<p>I agree with what you say, however, a self-made man (rich OR poor) who graduated from Harvard will have more in common with, and likely be more socially accepted by the established upper class than a self-made man who graduated from Podunk State U. Not that it matters to most people, though.</p>
<p>I suppose so. Although I think you’d find that the self-made man who graduated from Harvard would more likely associate with the thousands (or hundreds, depending on your definition) of other nouveau riches. I say this considering that true old money individuals do not recognize the Vanderbilts and their ilk as part of the upper class; they are considered nouveau riche. This doesn’t mean, however, that there isn’t another “upper class” which the very rich join.</p>
<p>I have to say this is largely untrue in my experience. I have many opportunities to hang out with elites in my personal and professional life. They make it quite obvious how miserable they are to be among the riff raff (like me).</p>
<p>I once had a boss who graduated from Harvard. It was the defining event of his life, and he never let anyone forget it. He was always introducing someone as an old Harvard buddy, but clearly he milked those connections primarily for business purposes. (He is an I-banker.) He had no real personal qualities to speak of, so I suspect Harvard truly was his ticket to success in the business world. Would he have gotten to where he was if he had gone to CUNY? Doubtful. But I think of him as an exception. Most of the most succesful Managing Directors at the firm went to “lesser” schools, but they managed to send their kids to elite private schools, live in the “best” neighborhoods and generally be viewed as respectable as anyone else - and most also had personal qualities my boss lacked.</p>
<p>While we are by no means “Bluebloods”, I have to admit, as a result of the exposure that my childen have had to those higher up on the socio-economic ladder, a world of opportunities and experiences have been opened up to them, that simply weren’t the case for us parents and other extended members of the family. As I reflect back on my motives for making the choices of types of schools, and assisting them in exploring EC’s and such, the dynamics of the benefits from such an environment are crystallizing and are rather apparent now. From personal tastes in clothing, music, food, world view, academic interests, political, travel, etiquette, etc, my children seem to be much different than many of their middle class peers and on a different plane, from their African American ones. I jokenly refer to them as my Little Huxtables and my DS as an Obama (only in cultural diversity terms) in the making. </p>
<p>There are nuances that happen once you are repeatedly exposed to the values and tastes of those who have amassed and maintain wealth. Those who are from a lower socio-economic bracket and possess something of value or find favor from someone of influence in these circles will definitely have opportunities not common within their typical associations. Whether or not these attributes or values are desirable of those from the lower socio economic brackets is a matter of personal choice, but based on my personal experiences, I can understand much better why so many people here seek the real and perceived benefits from attending a prestigious college or university. If you are one who values or have been brought up in that environment, it is much easier to achieve and perpetuate that standard of living from within those ranks and institutions, as opposed from outside of them.</p>