Doing Undergrad in UK / Europe

<p>My interests are computer/electrical engineering and computer science</p>

<p>What are the names of some competitive UK/European universities that are well balanced in terms of undergrad programs?
How easy/hard is it to get into them (for a US Permanent Resident)?
What are the financial aid/cost considerations for low-income families?</p>

<p>What special circumstances do i need to keep in mind?</p>

<p>Note: i mention UK, but take it with a grain of salt, because i dont want to limit my search only to 1 european country. the fact that they speak english there is a big factor me for me...i took spanish in high school and would most likely not do well in france or germany...thats just a consideration</p>

<p>you should look into university of warwick, imperial college, univeristy, oxford and cambridge..</p>

<p>they do not have any sort of financial assistance. however the tuition is around $18000 for most schools if not less. </p>

<p>the living costs might be quite high, esp if you go to a school in london.</p>

<p>where do you stay? what type of 11 and 12th grade are you doing. it would help if you mentioned since it would be easier to define how hard it is in terms of grades.</p>

<p>Having lived/gone to school abroad and in a foreign language, I can tell you a couple of things.</p>

<p>First of all, know that this is what you really want. Taking Spanish in high school should not be by any means a deciding factor with your decision. </p>

<p>Finals/Mid-terms, Papers, projects, lectures, etc etc will ALL be in Spanish. </p>

<p>"However, progressive figures who stood by the Cuban revolution abroad, such as writers like Saramago or Galeano, have rejected the death penalty in the name of the universal value of human life. They condemn all sorts of political violence, regardless of who implements it or the reasons standing behind it. "</p>

<p>Ok ok you can speak English. Now, translate that sentence into Spanish. (PLease don't I'm making a point)</p>

<p>Please, believe me. I am 100% for intercultural experiences. Heck, I started the AFS-International Club at my school, and lived in France. I'm bilingual and I am by no means trying to dissuade you.</p>

<p>Living abroad was one of the best decisions I made in my life. In fact, I myself am applying to the Sorbonne in Paris in the coming months. I am in the same boat as you.</p>

<p>UNDERGRAD ABROAD:</p>

<p>Pros: 100% bilingualism, great for future career, HECK OF A LOT cheaper than American schools (well probably not in the UK, but in France even the Sorbonne costs about 400 euros a year), international friends, etc etc</p>

<p>Cons: European schools have no dorms or meal plans or activities of any kind for that matter (although if you were in barcelona or madrid i don't think nightlife would be too much of a problem). You would have to live and rent an apartment in the city you're school is in. You must also consider flights back home, living expenses abroad (the strong Euro), also school would be INITIALLY very very challenging. College for most people is a challenging experience, add a foreign language and you'll be crying your eyes out. But this will be fleeting as a good year and a half there you will be able to get through school.</p>

<p>MAJOR PROBLEM:</p>

<p>I am unfamiliar with the educational system in Spain, but in France, essentially ANYONE can get into one of their schools (with the exception of the Grandes Ecoles, which are much more selective), but the fact of the matter is you need to actually STAY in the schools. Every year everyone takes one huge final and whoever fails it is booted. That's one reason why class sizes are ideal toward the 3rd year, because a good 25% of the class goes missing as the years go by. (French university is 3 years, another pro I would say)</p>

<p>I know it's not the same experience by any means, (trust me I know), but you could always attend an English/American university and spend a year in Spain, if learning Spanish is really what you want.</p>

<p>I hope I didn't just alienate myself from you, I was really just trying to help.</p>

<p>Good luck,</p>

<p>Scott</p>

<p>even going to school in the uk will be cheaper, as at most schools (scottish unis are a bit odd...hehe jk, just different) the ug degree only takes 3 years to complete. for sciences, imperial is the best in the UK, oxford is really only a name - it's good, but its strength lies mainly in humanities. cambridge, on the other hand, has more of a focus on sciences.</p>

<p>as lecorbeau said, i think there's a LOT To think about when deciding to study abroad. first of all, i'd stick to the uk (though that's just me) because of the language issue. it's surprising how different things are on the other side of the pond...the whole collegiate experience is different, first of all, which is why, despite my anglophilia, i'm staying here for undergrad and going to uk for grad.</p>

<p>@ignited i live in NJ, go to public school, 3.65 GPA 760M 680V 650W (<--retaking in october) take the most rigorous courses offered to me (AP Lit, Calc, CompSci, Bio, US History, Euro History) and lots of EC's</p>

<p>@lecrobeau i was simply mentioning the fact that i took spanish because i DONT want to have a bilingual education...thats why i mention UK...because they speak english (albeit a little different)</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
European schools have no dorms or meal plans or activities of any kind for that matter

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>They do in England but usually only for one year. They're all single rooms too. <em>bliss</em> </p>

<p>Have you thought about studying in Ireland? They also speak English there you know! Are you set on Europe or can anywhere that speaks English be considered? </p>

<p>I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this but the biggest difference - and one that few Americans really seem to understand till they get here - is that there are generally no minors. When you apply you have to choose a course of study on the application form and stick with it. I study Biology and that's it. I can attend extra classes if I want but there is no way to get credit for them. You have to be sure about what you want to study as it's very very difficult to change your mind. If you search this site you will find other threads on this topic. If you are serious about applying to Oxford or Cambridge (you cannot apply to both) the deadline is 1st October! All other UK colleges are effectively rolling.</p>

<p>Hello final1,
We are Americans living in Europe. The Counselors at my S's and D's high school provided us with the following information about English speaking colleges and universities and contact info. Maybe it might be helpful for you.
Doddsmom</p>

<p>European Colleges/Universities with Website & Contact Information</p>

<p>American College Dublin2 Merrion SquareDublin 2Ireland <a href="http://www.amcd.iee-mail:%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.amcd.iee-mail:&lt;/a> <a href="mailto:cstaunton@amcd.iePO">cstaunton@amcd.iePO</a>C: Bridget O’ConnorE-mail: <a href="mailto:boconnor@amcd.ie">boconnor@amcd.ie</a> Tel: +353 1 6768939Fax: +353 1 6768941
American College of GreeceLocation: Aghia Paraskevi, Greece <a href="http://www.acg.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.acg.edu/&lt;/a>
American University of ParisLocation: 20, Avenue Rapp57043 Paris, France <a href="http://www.aup.fr/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aup.fr/&lt;/a>
British American College LondonLocation: London, England <a href="http://www.bacl.ac.uk/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bacl.ac.uk/&lt;/a>
City and Guilds of London Art SchoolLocation: London, England <a href="http://www.cityandguildsartschool.ac.uk/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cityandguildsartschool.ac.uk/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br>
Cleveland Institute of Art Foreign StudiesLocation: Cleveland, Ohio <a href="http://www.cia.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cia.edu/&lt;/a>
Dartington College of Arts Dept. of Art and DesignLocation: Totnes (Devon), England <a href="http://www.dartington.ac.uk%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.dartington.ac.uk&lt;/a> Phone: 44-(0)1803-862-224
Ecole Nationale SuperieureLocation: Paris, France <a href="http://www.enst.fr/en/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.enst.fr/en/&lt;/a>
European Business School – LondonLocation: London, England <a href="http://www.ebslondon.ac.uk%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ebslondon.ac.uk&lt;/a>
Florida State UniversityInternational ProgramsPOC: Louisa BlenmanDirector of Marketing <a href="http://www.international.fsu.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.international.fsu.edu&lt;/a> E-mail: <a href="mailto:exrel@regents.ac.uk">exrel@regents.ac.uk</a>
Fortman Studios Florence Inc. ArtLocation: Florence, Italy <a href="http://www.fortmanstudios.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fortmanstudios.com/&lt;/a>
Hotelconsult SHCC &Washington St. Univ.Colleges SwitzerlandCH-1897 LeBouveret <a href="mailto:Marga.cretton@ritz.edu">Marga.cretton@ritz.edu</a> Phone: 0041-24-482-8282
Leicester Polytechnic – School of Fine ArtLocation: Leicester, England; Bedford, England <a href="http://www.dmu.ac.uk/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dmu.ac.uk/&lt;/a>
Les Ecoles D’Art Americaines De Fontainebleau Siene Et MarneLocation: Fontainebleau, France <a href="http://www.fontainebleauschools.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fontainebleauschools.org/&lt;/a>
Marchutz SchoolLocation: Aix, France <a href="http://www.marchutz.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.marchutz.org&lt;/a>
Oxbridge Academic Program Locations: Oxbridge, England, Cambridge, England;Paris, France <a href="http://www.oxbridgeprograms.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.oxbridgeprograms.com/&lt;/a>
Richmond-The American International UniversityLocation: London, England <a href="http://www.richmond.ac.uk%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.richmond.ac.uk&lt;/a>
Saint Louis UniversityLocation: Madrid, Spain Avda. Del Valle 34 28003, Madrid Spain Phone – 34-91-554-5858 Fax – 34-91-554-6202 <a href="http://spain.slu.eduContacts:%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://spain.slu.eduContacts:&lt;/a> Phyllis Chaney, Director of Admissions <a href="mailto:chaneyp@madrid.sluiberica.slu.edu">chaneyp@madrid.sluiberica.slu.edu</a> Jerry Hurley, Admissions Counselor <a href="mailto:hurleyj@madrid.sluiberica.slu.edu">hurleyj@madrid.sluiberica.slu.edu</a>
Saint Louis University Madrid, Spain CampusLocation: Madrid Spain <a href="http://spain.slu.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://spain.slu.edu&lt;/a>
Schiller International Univ.Locations: London, England; Paris, France; Strasbourg, France; Madrid, Spain; Leysin, Switzerland; Engelberg, Switzerland; Heidelberg, Germany; Dunedin, Florida (USA) <a href="http://www.schiller.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.schiller.edu/&lt;/a> POC: Thomas LeibrechtE-mail: <a href="mailto:TLeibrecht@siu-heidelberg.de">TLeibrecht@siu-heidelberg.de</a> Phone : 49-6221-45810 Or Dr. Nicolle Machoe-mail: Nicolle <a href="mailto:Macho@aol.com">Macho@aol.com</a>
School of Architecture in AarhusLocation: Aarhus C, Denmark <a href="http://www.a-aarhus.dk/AAA_UK/AAA.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.a-aarhus.dk/AAA_UK/AAA.htm&lt;/a>
Studio Art Centers InternationalLocation: Florence, Italy <a href="http://www.saci-florence.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.saci-florence.org/&lt;/a>
Temple University International Abroad Locations: London, England Barcelona, Spain; Madrid, Spain; Paris, France; Rome & Florence, ItalyUSA Location: Philadelphia, PA <a href="http://www.temple.edu/studyabroad/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.temple.edu/studyabroad/&lt;/a>
Trent Polytechnic Location: Nottingham, England <a href="http://www.ntu.ac.uk/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ntu.ac.uk/&lt;/a>
Univ. of Burgos (Boston University)Burgos (Madrid), Spain <a href="http://www.bu.edu/abroad%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.bu.edu/abroad&lt;/a>
University of Bristol Senate House Tyndall Avenue Bristol BS8 1TH UK <a href="http://www.bris.ac.uk/prospective/e-mail:%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bris.ac.uk/prospective/e-mail:&lt;/a> <a href="mailto:admissions@bristol.ac.ukPh">admissions@bristol.ac.ukPh</a>one: 00 44 117 928 9000Fax: 00 44 117 925 1424
University of Bristol Study Abroad ProgrammeLocation: Bristol, England <a href="http://www.bris.ac.uk/prospective/e-mail:%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bris.ac.uk/prospective/e-mail:&lt;/a> <a href="mailto:admissions@bristol.ac.ukPh">admissions@bristol.ac.ukPh</a>one: 0044-117-928-9000POC: Ms. Bev Polinge-mail: <a href="mailto:Bev.Poling@bristol.ac.ukPh">Bev.Poling@bristol.ac.ukPh</a>one : 0044-117-954-5841
University of Maryland - Mannheim CampusLocation: Mannheim, Germany <a href="http://mc.umuc.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mc.umuc.edu/&lt;/a>
Vesalius College Vrije UniversiteitLocation: Brussels, Belgium <a href="http://www.vub.ac.be/english/welcome.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.vub.ac.be/english/welcome.html&lt;/a> POC: Jessica Blacke-mail: <a href="mailto:jblack@vub.ac.bePh">jblack@vub.ac.bePh</a>one: 0032-629-3626</p>

<p>Hello Doddsmom,</p>

<p>Thanks so much for the invaluable list of European institutions. I grew up in Asia and Europe and always assumed I'd go to college there (in France), but ended up coming back to Duke. My sons, a freshman and a sophomore, attend an international school where they were fully immersed in French for years, and are now working on an IB curriculum. Our school is fully accredited by both the French and Spanish ministries of education, and we have students from 50 countries, teachers from 25. Since leaving teaching last year, I do a lot of volunteer work helping with the college counseling department, so your list will be enormously helpful to me. Perhaps I can e-mail or call the institutions you list so that our students can see that they have a number of viable choices outside the U.S. My younger son would really like to study in France--for all four years. Are your children planning to do the same?</p>

<p>One more question: I just glimpsed at your list quickly, and I saw one school in Aix. Is this affiliated with the main university at Aix-en-Provence? If not, do you have any contact info for that institution? I have heard nothing but great things about it, and it is in a perfect location (in my biased opinion!) </p>

<p>Thank you so very much again. If I may ask, what part of Europe are you in? I lived in Cannes, France for four years, Paris for six months, and spent many summers in the Munich area.
If you'd like to contact me for any reason (e.g., if you get another list!), I'm Jennifer and may be contacted at <a href="mailto:indydukie@hotmail.com">indydukie@hotmail.com</a>. My husband is often on this board, I believe as indydukie. Again, many thanks!</p>

<p>Sorry about that last msg. to Doddsmom. I'm new here, and thought that was going to her privately!</p>

<p>I have a couple of ideas to add: many universities in Europe will accept American students with an I.B. (or, of course, if they've attended a Lycee Francais, for example.) Twentysomething years ago, when the IB was an embryonic program, many European universities would not accept it as a valid diploma--nor would American universities. That was why I had to come back although I didn't want to. That has all changed radically, and things are totally different today. As far as cost goes, one girl from our school recently ventured over to Nancy, France, and last I heard she was paying the same tuition as the French kids (she's an American with an IB). As for cost of living, I don't know whether she lived in a dorm or on her own--European residential costs, whether one rents or owns, are notoriously stratospheric, especially in large cities (like here but worse!)</p>

<p>If looking at the UK, language is obviously no problem, but I believe most countries require a TOEFL-like proof of proficiency exam.</p>

<p>One last idea: Canada--particularly Montreal--offers excellent education for roughly $10k per year (Americans pay about three to four times what Canadian residents do.) It may not sound as exotic as Europe, but Montreal is a wonderful multicultural, bilingual city that offers educational options which are very inexpensive by American standards AND acknowledged as excellent ( McGill, for instance, where instruction is in English). University of Toronto is a great place, and also very international.</p>

<p>AUSTRALIA</p>

<p>I can recommend many good universities in Australia and the cost of living here can be much cheaper than the UK and the US. There's the Uni Melbourne, Monash, University of Sydney, ANU and others that are all quite good. If sole backup school in AUS incase anything in the US going amiss is Uni Melb which for engineering is quite a good school even though its not match for the top US uni's and Oxford, Cambridge and Imp College.</p>

<p>Plus Melbourne is one damn fine place to live. Its a highly multicultural city where its really safe at night. Nightlife is great, the coffee shops along the beaches are sexy and overall its a great place to be.</p>

<p>Anyways, its just something you can think about.</p>

<p>LeCorbeau (The Crow, for those non-francophones out there),</p>

<p>I agree with you wholeheartedly on some points but have some questions about others.</p>

<p>First of all, I hadn't read your message when I read Doddsmom's, so I probably repeated some of your ideas--sorry (cost of living issues, etc.)</p>

<p>I'm not so sure you can just walk into any French Uni apart from the Grandes Ecoles; that hasn't been the experience of some of my European friends. </p>

<p>Your point about being overwhelmed by a foreign language is valid. For that reason, I really don't know what each government's policy is re: accepting international students who don't pass a proficiency test of some sort. One experience to share: when I was accedpted into the Duke in France program, which was for one semester, we had to prove our proficiency AT DUKE by having a high GPA--and a very high one in French (this was junior year.) Then, AFTER arrival in Paris, we were all put in a 'Classe d'Accueil'--a 'welcoming' class that would prepare us for the rigorous classes we'd be taking (in my case, at La Sorbonne; everyone chose their own courses at a chosen school under the umbrella of the Universite de Paris.) In the Welcoming Class, I tested out (after all, I'd spent all my high school years immersed in French.) The rest of my classmates stayed in the Welcoming Class until they were comfortable in their other classes. However, most kids stayed in that class for the majority of the semester.</p>

<p>Just reinforcing your opinion that unless you are extremely bilingual, it is indeed very daunting, at best, when your entire life is suddenly conducted in that language.</p>

<p>Bonne chance a la Sorbonne !</p>

<p>the thing is, you can walk into any school in France which is not a grande ecole or a classe prepa (I'm referring to the "fac"
oh and La Sorbonne might have the most prestige for an AMerican, but the toughest schools to get in to would be ENA (for post grad), Polytechnique (for engineering), ENS (Ecole Normale Superieure for the arts) and a few other buisiness schools such as HEC or Mines</p>

<p>imperial is not at all the best for sciences in the uk, cambridge is FAR better in all the pure sciences. for engineering cambridge and imperial are more equal but cambridge is still harder to get into.</p>

<p>how about grad schools? undergrad is an infeasibility for me right now due to the high living costs/tuitions (i really need the financial aid)</p>

<p>You should perhaps consider colleges like University College Utrecht (<a href="http://www.ucu.uu.nl%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ucu.uu.nl&lt;/a&gt;) and Roosevelt Academy (<a href="http://www.rooseveltacademy.org)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rooseveltacademy.org)&lt;/a>. These 2 schools offer liberal arts education and has a residential settings. Tuition is cheap too. It's only EU 1,960...</p>

<p>If you mean European BUSINESS Graduate Schools...Europe has some of the best, or as BusinessWeek ranked them...</p>

<p>1* INSEAD (Fontainebleu <em>near Paris</em>, France)
2* Queen's University (Ontario)
3* IMD (Lausanne, Switzerland)
4* London Business School
5* Toronto
6* Western Ontario
7* Rotterdam School of Management (The Netherlands)
8* IESE (Barcelona)
9* HEC - Paris
10* York (Toronto)</p>

<p>If I don't get my undergrad abroad, I am most certainly getting my MBA abroad.</p>

<p>Anyway, hope this helps</p>

<p>Final1,</p>

<p>If you calculate EVERYTHING--rent, living expenses, food, flights back home, etc etc, it still does not amount to anything close to 200,000 over 4 years in the united states, unless you are the least frugal person in the world, but usually college students are.</p>

<p>Honestly, if you overestimated, even in a city like Paris, you would probably be spending close to 20,000 per year.</p>

<p>Let's do this (This is all theoretical) :</p>

<p>2 Flights back home (summer, christmas season)= $2-4,000 a year</p>

<p>Rent and expenses= $800 a month</p>

<p>Tuition= $400 a year</p>

<p>Books= $300-500+ (not too sure about this figure, I took college classes over the summer and each book was around 85-95 dollars...so....)</p>

<p>Okay, so taking into account my most overestimated figures, it'll set you back about $14,500....and if you wanted to do some traveling while you were there, add another 2 grand or so...again...how does that compare to 43,000?</p>

<p>At places such as Bowdoin or Middlebury, you'll be looking at about 43,000 a year, a fact that virtually everyone on this board knows.</p>

<p>CIAO</p>

<p>i didnt think tuition would be that low</p>

<p>other factors that are deterrents at this point
a. i dont have any relatives in uk
b. i havent taken any a-level exams/and am not in an IB program (i go to a large public school that doesn't offer IB's)and its going to be pretty hard for me to get in
c. im going to have to go there over the summer and find a place to live (dorms? how does that work there)</p>

<p>other than that im pretty much ok with going to uk and studying there...id like to live there in the future also</p>

<p>uk undergrad sounds good...heres my stats </p>

<p>gpa 3.65 uw
class rank (school doesnt rank but somewhere near/in top 10%,
2090+ sat i score [retaking in october], sat iis 790 math 1c 780 match 2c 770 bio, 750 usap,
i take the most rigorous courses offered...6 aps rest honors (max i can take)
good recs (although i dont know what my teachers would think when i told em i was applying to uk schools
good e'cs and tons of leadership etc...</p>

<p>how do they consider US applicants in terms of admissions and i hear admissions is rolling so thats a good thing </p>

<p>(interviews? how does that work?)</p>

<p>Well, the tuition is certainly not that low for UK institutions...</p>

<p>I am doing this without his permission (but he's a good friend so I figure he won't mind...)</p>

<p>But I have a good friend who is going to Oxford in about 3 days...(he is there for his undergrad...studying international law) and if you would like to send him an e-mail...send me a private message and I'll give you his address....</p>