<p>I’d hope a counselor would have a link to an EFC estimator and provide that to all students/parents and suggest that they fill it out (on their own) to see where they stand. And then let them know that while EFC is a useful number, doing the college’s own NPC is important. Then they should discuss general concepts like “100%” need met" and how that works with NCP and Profile and such, and the existence of merit aid at many schools.</p>
<p>Our HS brought in a college financial consultant to give a presentation on paying for college. It was fairly useful, and was also a little pitch for the for-pay consulting services, but it got me thinking enough to get the “Paying for College Without Going Broke” book and ultimately led me here where I got a lot of excellent info.</p>
<p>It was pretty well attended, though. We have about 175 kids in a class at our HS and I’d guess 100 parents were there. The presentation was in S’ junior year.</p>
<p>The GC can urge the parents to do a sample estimator and these days explain what the NPC can do, and give a brief overlay of the way financial and merit aid works. I’ve written many a post that puts it all in a nutshell. I’ve yet to go to a presentation–and I’m on my 5th kid, that does this. It does not have to be personal at all. Things like what the Stafford limits and what is generally available to everyone should be spelled out on a hand out along with links to estimators. It’s up to the parent to do the rest in the privacy of his home. I don’t know how many parents are in shock to learn that a student can only borrow about $5500 freshman year in most cases, and what the interest rates are on these federal loans that everyone is so hot to get. Bargains they are not, and they have destination fees as well. Parents who are truly needy are often shocked that the total amount avaliable is going to cover local state colleges, not going away to a sleep away school, unless the school itself shells out the money, and looking at a lot of state school they do not tend to meet 100% of need. Just showing how one can look at the chances of getting need met, % of kids getting aid and merit money and average amounts are all important releveant information to most all parents. And with so many divorce and separated families out there, the NCP issue needs to be addressed. No, you can’t just say NCP won’t pay and the college will leave it at that. I cannot believe how many people think that. Or not know that the step parents are also included in the financial revelations, and yes, even money in step kids and sibling accounts when it comes to PROFILE. One hears something relevant to a certain situation and thinks it’s the rule. Yes, FAFSA does not take NCP financials into account, but that is not useful to anyone who is looking at PROFILE schools. IT’s a big shock to many that even a prenup or agreement that the step dad isn’t paying for step kid’s college doesn’t hold water in the college world. </p>
<p>I have a friend whose husband has been down and out for some time now. Makes very little money so she has to provide for the kids. She’s the custodial parent. I told her that it behooves her to transfer her junior son to spend more time with Dad so that he is there 51% of the time–high school kids are hardly home anyways, so that when he applies to the SUNY schools, not only would the FAFSA EFC be lower, he might be eligible for some state monies too. The schools on his list tend to be FAFSA only in requirement for aid. He isn’t going to get a dime on Mom and step dad’s income, but with Dad, now that is a whole other story. BUt you gotta know this to do this.</p>
<p>Even in-state total costs for our state universities is going to wind up to well over **$100,000<a href=“!”>/b</a>
And that assumes that my D will graduate in four years. Plus we’re not including grad school.</p>
<p>I’m sorry. $100,000, to me, is still a heck of a lot of money.</p>
<p>I was very clear with my daughter at the very beginning of this process and remind her on a periodic basis:</p>
<p>She can dream, research, consider and apply to any school she wants. However, when it comes to decision time, her parents’ financial contribution will not (and cannot) exceed what in-state tuition is for our state universities.</p>
<p>As I’ve posted a couple of times in other threads, my parents paid zero toward my education expenses. I worked full-time while in college and took out massive student loans for grad school. My daughter, by comparison, is making out very well.</p>
<p>I posted a thread on how my cousin’s son approached the college application process. In his case, he applied to a community college, a local state school and a local Catholic school along with some pricey private schools along with some state universities, including the flaghip where he would not be able to commute. It was interesting in that the local Catholic school and the local state school (a former teacher’s college, now a university) gave him full tuition awards. The community college did not, but its sticker price was much lower, and through part time work and Stafford loans, and whatever they had saved, he could comfortably afford any of the local options, even with a car purchase and costs included in the mix. </p>
<p>Golffather, because my father was a federal employee, I can look up his GS rating and his years of service to estimate what he would be earning today. If I were a student today, I would be in the quandrey that a lot of college kids and their families are, as the amount expected from the famiily is enough that it would make it difficult for someone at that income level to pay, and unrealistic to expect from a student to pay on her own unless scholarship money comes into the picture, when it comes to private colleges and going away to college. Going to a local state school, commuting from home would be very doable, and in our case, my sons were notified that they had the stats for pretty much free tutions plus other benefits at one of our CUNYs. Going away, even to a state school is a whole other story. Room and board at a college is not cheap. </p>
<p>In our personal case, we too had a limit as to what we would pay. For my sons to go to a private college away, they would have had to get merit money to bring the cost to what they and we, the parents, could pay and borrow.</p>
<p>The simple fact is that for MANY students, an affordable college education plan starts with two years at their local community college. Your $100,000 figure for four years makes me think that your daughter is only looking at 4-year institutions and living on campus. Living at home for the first two years, and commuting to a community college could easily cut that down to less than $75,000. Still not inexpensive by any means, but a significant savings over your original estimate.</p>
<p>Mhmm, I did not mean for this to be a pound down on GCs, though I do feel that there is a systematic serious lack of concern and information regarding college costs. Schools and counselors feel that a generic lecture and handout cover it and hide behind a personal issue excuse. </p>
<p>However, the GCs have their purpose in the college admissions picture, and one has to understand exactly what they can and can’t do. IT is a specialized function and to expect more than what they are giving is unreasonable. There should be some push to make their jobs more encompassing in the process. The way things have been going, the economics is becoming increasingly imporant. Also, a lot of the PR regarding college admissions no longer fits the way things work. Dave Berry has s thread he started on the THe big lies about admissions. All three factors listed have become increasingly important in the whole college thing.</p>
<p>GolfFather, yes, when it comes to college, staying at home does save a lot of money. But a big part of the next step, the rite of passage has become the going away to college. It is not the typical way to go , except in certain communities and schools, but has become the thing that many of us have come to expect. Therein lies a lot of the problem. You don’t feel deprived if you are in what you perceive as the norm, but you feel terribly deprived and porr, when your percenption are not realized. </p>
<p>My kids, largely because of my brainwashing and placing them in schools and programs that supported this propaganda, felt that they had to go away to college when they finished high school and would have felt it was a catastrophe, a failure, disappointment, etc, if it did not happen. A lot of it my fault that this was what they fervently believed and the youngest one believes. I drank the kool aid too, and am slowly seeing things through other views.</p>
<p>While the GCs at S1’s school wouldn’t discuss FA, the program coordinator at the time asked me to come and talk to the junior parents about applying to colleges. I focused on FA. Told folks that if they had not yet run an EFC calculator, they needed to do so. Yesterday. Gave the example that for a two-earner family in our expensive metro area, one could expect to pay 30-35% of current income for college. You should have seen the parents blanch. And this was a group of highly educated parents, with some of the top students in the area, who took an attitude of “we’ll pay for Ivy or you’ll go to the flagship with money.” Search for merit at a “lesser” school?!? Not happening.</p>
<p>I made my SIL sit down with me last winter break to run numbers for my niece, who was a senior and looking at some excellent but pricey schools. Lots of unusual issues, including two unemployed parents, divorce, foreclosure, food stamps and investment properties. EFC ranged from $11k to $32k. A lot of those pricey apps did not get sent on Jan. 1st. Niece is now at the flagship with a merit award of full tuition/fees/books plus $3,000/yr in additional scholarship (she was salutatorian and had a 34 ACT).</p>
<p>I know two people whose EFC at one school was more than double the school’s own FA calculator estimates, and double any other school’s EFC.</p>
<p>OP’s post is a good reminder that many (but not all) state schools tend to favor in-state residents for merit $$ and FA.</p>
<p>College is more of a norm now than it’s ever been. More than 40% of high school students go on to four-year colleges (it actually might be 60% or so, but I know it’s at least 40%).</p>
<p>I can see where you’re coming from, but not going to college is, for the vast majority of people who aren’t Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, not a good financial decision in the long run.</p>
<p>Due to financial aid, almost anyone can afford to go SOMEWHERE, though it might not have the kind of shimmer they’d like.</p>
<p>emberjed - He’s not saying not to go to college. He’s saying not to go away to college. Big difference. Community college for first 2 years versus sleep-away college for all four.</p>
<p>I got stuck on the initial post and the two comments</p>
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<p>and</p>
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<p>In any case I don’t see how most of the posts above apply to the actual situation.</p>
<p>Whatever happened to personal family responsibility? Why should private colleges and especially public colleges have to compensate for dysfunctional families? Regardless of the school rules how does a GC decipher the dysfunction? Poor child caught in the middle.</p>
<p>I live in an area where a large number of families send their kids off to college where they will live away from home. Even those who get accepted to local colleges to which they can commute, tend to go for the dorm and own apartment experience. Since I sent my kids to school where this is the norm, they, and I got into the groove where we thought it was.</p>
<p>Wrong. </p>
<p>There are many, many colleges in our area. We have the CUNY system and a number of private colleges as well as some SUNYs and community colleges. Just looking at what is out there, it becomes pretty clear that most people attending college are not living in their own digs or college housing. They are llving at home. This area is fortunate in that the mass transit options are pretty good, so many students take a bus or train to school and come home most nights for dinner and bed. There are also a sizeable number of students staying with friends/relatives. Paying for your college kid to leave elsewhere than home is a luxury and privilege that most people do not have.</p>
<p>I think kids slowly start to get it too. A goodly number of students who go away for college do end up coming back home, tranferring to a local school, maybe getting a job and knocking out the credits and courses on a part time basis. That is really how most people get their degree, still. My son who is away at college is running into friends quite often now, when he’s home to visit. Friends and acquaintances who chose or had to stay home to do college. It’s an option he now considers too. It’s no longer something that is not considered. When he was applying to colleges, his nose went right up to info from local schools, and though flattered to get a near full tuition scholarship to a nearby school, it was never a serious consderation. But there are a lot of people he knows who are doing this. THey are doing well and many are growing up faster than the kids going away to school.</p>
<p>It’s really a case of to each his own. The decision isn’t easy and many factors come into play. What’s right for my two kids isn’t necessarily right for all kids. We made a commitment to getting them a good education (I am purposely avoiding words that imply higher quality, ok?) We resolved, ages ago, to bite that bullet. </p>
<p>Not saying anything is wrong with a local option or cc. But, this issue is bigger than costs or simply achieving the degree. Not all states offer what NY or CA do. Not all hs kids are ready, just because they get admitted somewhere. </p>
<p>We are sacrificing for the away experience and we managed it as intelligently as we could. We are not wealthy. Time will tell, for all our kids. I don’t compare them to anyone who came home, went to an expensive very low tier school or is taking extra time. This has got to be a family by family decision.</p>
<p>Why are we even in this situation? Why do we have to offer so much financial aid (ie why is college so expensive?). It was not like this years ago. Did my university need to spend 10+mil to renovate a perfectly good dorm to put in hard wood floors and plasma screens (and every year they do this with some dorm)? </p>
<p>I got lucky that I got a merit scholarship to my school, or else I would have to go to a terrible school or cc while having great grades and top scores. So shocked at those fin aid letters. They don’t look at the whole picture on finances. </p>
<p>I saw a number saying school is gonna be 134K a YEAR in 18 years, based on the trends. No way I am paying that. I don’t care how much I make, but I already know I won’t be able to afford that on an engineers salary (yet they will give no aid there too).</p>
<p>I think the GCs who assume the money is there are working in schools where most of the families are upper middle class. I don’t know what the salary of a GC in such a district is, but I imagine that to them, pretty much everyone in their school seems richer than they are. Perhaps this is one reason why they make assumptions about affording college.</p>
<p>My kids are in a private Christian school. The tuition here is about half of what a prep school costs, and there are a lot of kids on scholarship. Their college adviser assumes nothing. She has frank discussions with every kid, asking if they know for a fact their parents can afford the colleges to which they are applying, and encouraging them to ask their families directly what they expect to pay. She sends home FAFSA and CSS info with every senior and has several meetings with groups of parents to answer questions about the forms.</p>
<p>^^ Massmomm, I think you’re right. My kids attend a public HS in an affluent area. 96% of the graduates of their school go on to college, and the vast, vast majority of those go away to college. When D and I met with the GC her junior year, he actually told her to make her college list without thinking about the cost!! I bit my tongue, but I wanted to tell him that it was up to ME, not him, to determine whether D should consider cost in formulating her list. It wasn’t a factor in our case, but he had no way of knowing that. And it very well could have been a big factor for the next kid who was sitting in his office being so advised. I would think that this type of advice is not given in schools where most families cannot afford to pay full freight for college. I certainly hope it isn’t.</p>