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We’ve been on 4 cruises, all “free rides” paid for by the in-laws. Does that mean we should be able to “afford to pay at least partialy for our kiddo to go to Stanford”?</p>
<p>Things are not always as they seem.</p>
<p>Hi lerkin:
I thought about a research, but got lazy to write everythin I though… Here are some ideas.
At LACs college costs come from the cost of paying professors + subsidization of low income students.
At top research universities, cost come less from paying professors, and come more from the fact that universities can charge a lot and people are still willing to pay + subsidization of low income students.
From the research university perspective, it does not make sense to require a top researcher to teach 4 sessions of “intr bio” or “intro programming”. It is economically better to let a TA/Adjunct take care of these while the researcher is working on the “cure of cancer” or the next “quantum computer” (I know I am exagerating here). The model is such that smart students will figure they way through entry classes, and perhaps when they are taking advanced classes, they may encounter the top researchers and learn some advanced subjects. Asking the top researcher to teach 3 courses per semester, as it may happen at some teaching schools, will only be deterimental to the research university and the entire community associated with it.
On youtube you see some LAC movies/advertisement in which a teaching professor help students from the very beginning, teaching them how to focus a laser on a mirror, or how to adjust their protective goggles when looking at some bio stuff. Again, this is the type of thing that students would be expected to do by themselves or learn from their colleagues or TA at a research university. On the other hand, at the research university, if the students learned how to do those basic things, they will have the opportunity to take BIO498 and PYS499, where they will have the opportunity to focus the quantum-super-dupper lazer and kill cancer cells, while at the teaching school, students will not have the opportuntity to get close to this advanced stuff (which is only possible at the research university because it is being subsidized by the external NSF grant money by the way).
Students do have a choice: If they want a lot of personal attention, they go to a teaching school, and pay a lot. If they want to eventually get exposed to some of the state of art knowledge in their discipline, they go to a research university, and pay a lot as well. If they do not need the one-on-one attention, nor the exposure to top academics, they can go somewhere else and pay less. This is not broken, this is the way it is.<br>
Lastly, there is the fact that many times some families (upper middle class and above) would be subsidizing some other students on financial aid. I think that this is driving up the COA more than the fact that a research professor only teaches a few classes per year. But this is another story for another time.</p>
<p>On the other hand when you cast a wide net it can be hard to show schools they are your first or even third choice.
Some schools weigh that heavily.
My oldest applied to five schools, one was a huge reach both academically and financially. Still, she really liked it and it was her first choice. She was accepted with enough aid to make it the same cost as her instate public choices.
I am not sure if she had applied to more reaches, that the outcome would have been as positive.</p>
<p>We too sat down with our son and said “we have X saved, which will cover in state for four years. If you get scholarships elsewhere, great, we will save the $ for grad school.” He turned down some schools where his COA would have been less and some where his COA would have been more. The school he chose (a former admission and financial safety) will end up taking just about every penny of X and he is fine with that. We feel very lucky that he did not choose one of the higher ranked pricy no money admissions solely for the name, we probably would have felt obligated to at least help with loans.</p>
<p><a href="%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14894584-post5.html%5D#5%5B/url%5D">quote</a> He is a bright kid…
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<p>A bright kid that would have benefited from wise parents.</p>
<p>I can relate to that kid’s situation in that my mom makes what may seem like a lot to those living in other states (but with NYC COL and DEBT it is not a lot at all) and a father who is not willing to contribute, yet my “aid” is next to nothing.</p>
<p>What is “NCP?”</p>
<p>^NCP = non-custodial parent</p>
<p>Ah, thanks! (I wracked my brain and googled it, but just couldn’t get it!)</p>
<p>Op,
Didn’t read thru all of the posts, but did his safeties provide merit money? Given that he was a top student, I would assume so. If they did, then his biggest mistake was dropping them before the financial packages came in from all schools.</p>
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<p>Maybe. However, I assume you would at least have good sense 1) not to go beg for a hand out from John Heald to celebrate your kid’s achievement and 2) not brag about an “accomplishment” of getting full scholarship to Stanford (though acceptance to Stanford is truly an accomplishment).</p>
<p>
Perhaps that’s it, but there could be another factor at play. Teachers are among the last sizeable groups of workers to have pension plans, which have been disappearing in the private sector. The average California teacher that retired in 201 receives $51K in retirement income for life (probably inflation indexed, too). </p>
<p>Those in the private sector need to save for retirement and can’t drain all those funds to send the kids to college, public school teachers don’t need to build up a nest egg. So for a public school GC, instead of assuming the parents are wealthy it may be instead projecting their own freedom from worry about retirement income onto the parents.</p>
<p>I think it’s the old “if you are a hammer, all you see is the nail” adage in place. GCs want to facilitate the college process, and the financial aid part just isn’t on the list other than as a hand out and the subject of maybe one lecutre that is very generic. Actually that is all that needs to be given as long as key points are addressed in both, like how the financial aid process actually works. I went to a number of these and would never have gotten an nutshell understanding that a long post here could give. During the early years, I had no more understanding of the process after walking out of those talks than before. It wasn’t until I sat there and actually went throught the process, read the books, looked up some things, that I got it . And I’d love to kick some useless GC tail over that. I wasn’t on these boards–don’t even know if CC was around those days. It took a while before I go the understanding as to how things work,and it really is upsetting that this is not a standard core of knowledge. Many, many people are going through this process considering one of the most expensive ventures with no idea how the pricing works and guides are skirting the issue. It’s insane.</p>
<p>Re: the post about avoiding waitlists because they won’t offer aid because they didn’t want you at first</p>
<p>I don’t think this is always true. At least it wasn’t in our case. There’s really no harm in staying on a waitlist to see what they will give you. Just don’t throw your heart into it.</p>
<p>Also, the amount of “need” that many colleges offer to meet seems to be based on “merit.”</p>
<p>My advice on waitlists, is that if the school interests you, accept a spot, spend a day or so putting together whatever you might have to enhance your chances there, let your GC know if one of them is your true first choice and ask her/him to let the school know, and then FUGIDABUDIT or however that is spelled. Just go right on ahead and procede with the school you selected that also selected you and has the price tag your family can afford. </p>
<p>When and if accepted off the WL, if cost is an issue, it should be addressed then. I have seen kids get good aid packages even off the waitlists of schools that do not guarantee to meet need. When it comes to the waitlist, the colleges do not want to fool around either. They want this over with, so to offer a spot to a high need student and not offer aid is really a likely waste of time when you want these spots filled now. So, often getting off the wait list is not a need blind process but if you get off, it is very possible your need will be met. Everyone, including the adcoms are DONE by then and want to put the matter to rest.</p>
<p>So, no don’t avoid waitlists, but be aware that they may not be needblind in selection even if the college is for admisions purposes through the regular season.</p>
<p>S was accepted off a wait list last year for a school that was a top choice. Something about not being accepted right away made him like it less. He also made his decision on another school and felt committed. When the wait list offer came on May 2, he was pleased, and they did offer a good FA/merit package…but not as good as the school he’d originally chosen, there was a gap I feel like they must have known would be a difficulty for us.</p>
<p>He turned it down rather than negotiate the package, because he’d fallen in love with the other school by then.</p>
<p>School district superintendents, HS principals, HS guidance counselors, HS teachers, and even families that just live down the street who are invested in the game of “my school/district is better than that one”, gain many more points based on the numbers of students accepted at Fill-In-Favorite-Colleges-And-Universities-Here than they do for actual college attendance. They gain even fewer (if it is possible to imagine that small a number of points) for college completion. This means that there is very little incentive for the high school staff members to pay attention to affordability, other than for those students who can score ginormous merit scholarships (which add to the points score of course).</p>
<p>Changing the way the game is scored would be a good start. Tracking college completion is extremely difficult given the unexpected turns that lives can take, but many high schools have a solid notion of which colleges and universities their students do intend to enroll in by the day of HS graduation. Perhaps there is a way to add this into Naviance with a code for “chosen because of cost to student”.</p>
<p>it is all about money in the end so go work</p>
<p>Okay - I am getting a little worried. My son is applying to several Ivies through Questbridge. That application and the supplements are taking up the majority of his time. I am definitely going to have to get him going on the scholarships.</p>
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<p>WHERE are you getting this message???</p>
<p>College affordability is not about applying for outside scholarships. It’s about applying to schools where your family would qualify for significant need-based aid (which your son is already doing) and also applying to schools where your son’s GPA and SAT/ACT scores would make him eligible for significant merit aid.</p>
<p>He’s doing the first part. Now all he has to do is find several less competitive schools where his stat’s would qualify him for merit aid. There are several schools that offer automatic grants for incoming students with grades and test scores above a certain level. Your son can find those [url=<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html]here[/url”>Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums]here[/url</a>] and [url=<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html]here[/url”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html]here[/url</a>]. Then he can also look at schools that offer competitive merit awards - focusing on those schools where his stat’s would put him in the very top percent of the students applying to that school.</p>
<p>Outside scholarships are not the answer!</p>