<p>What are the drop out rates for people who do double degrees with Music being one of them. Are the different when we compare degrees from two different institutions (tufts +NEC) vs two degree from the same institutions , but separate physical locations (JHU+Peabody) , versus degrees form the same uni all in one physical location (USC)</p>
<p>Do you mean, What are the rates of students beginning double degrees who drop one of the degrees by graduation? Great question. I would think it is fairly high, but I don’t know the answer.</p>
<p>Anecdotally I know a number of kids who started out as double degree but ended up with a single degree. </p>
<p>My son is finishing his double-degree at Bard. In his graduating class, I have not heard of anyone not finishing both degrees. In the class ahead of him, one of his friends ending up dropping the BM and getting a BA in music instead, from the college - finishing in 4.5 years, but adding a concurrent masters in conducting at the same time. Another friend, a grade below him, took a gap year, came back, then ended up leaving altogether. He plans to change direction entirely. I don’t think stories like these are much different than for students pursuing one degree. Admittedly, Bard makes it very easy to pursue two degrees - and every student in the conservatory is doing so.</p>
<p>I do know before my son enrolled we were told that the students who had the most problems with the double degree were the foreign students, because of the difficulty of English as a foreign language and all the reading and writing requirements at Bard - which they were not prepared for.</p>
<p>I know of one bright young man who did NEC/Tufts in five years and a woman who did Oberlin in 5.5 years. D considered applying to the double degree but did not want to spend so much time as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>One advantage of more time as an undergrad in a double degree program, as opposed to being in a masters or PhD program is that the student still has the opportunity to takes lots of electives in different subject areas. Once in grad school the opportunities for exploration outside of music may narrow.</p>
<p>My son currently is in the Tufts-NEC dual degree program and loves it. It is a relatively small, tight group of kids (maybe 25-30 in total) that have eclectic academic interests and are all talented muscians. I don’t think anyone has dropped out of the dual degree program since he’s been in it. My sense is that the camraderie of the group provides a balance to school-conservatory pressures that other students might not enjoy. My son is a double major at Tufts in addition to pursuing his dual degree at NEC and will finish in 5 years. It’s been intense for him. If you’re thinking about the dual program, be sure to visit and see if you can stay with someone in the program. My son did that at Oberlin, Northwestern, Hopkins-Peabody, etc. (all the usual suspects) and it gave him a clear idea of what he was getting into.</p>
<p>Like anything else, it depends on the program I would hazard a guess. Joint programs like Tufts-NEC or Harvard-NEC tend to attract the kind of kids who already are pretty driven both academically and musically, so I suspect for them the intensity is a natural which may not be true at another joint program. Some joint programs, like Juilliard/Columbia, is not a dual degree program, you get a BA from Columbia then an MM from Juilliard, and that is very different. </p>
<p>On the other hand, friend of mine went to Indiana, where from what he told me and others have told me, they encourage kids to dual major, and because Indiana tends to enroll a lot of kids, over the first couple of years a lot of kids drop the BM and stick with their academic degree, lot more than drop the BA/BS and keep doing the BM…I can only speculate that a similar thing would happen at other schools where dual majors happen, that a lot more kids would drop the BM then drop the BA portion (note at Bard and some other programs, you have to get the second degree if you want a BM…I suspect if you wanted to drop the BM and just get a BA, that would be possible there…). </p>
<p>One thing that has come out on here many times, is that getting a dual degree like that isn’t easy, and if you are doing it simply to have a degree that is ‘worth something’ in case you don’t go into music, don’t do it, because given the amount of work towards a dual degree like that, it can be creating a self fulfilling prophesy with the music side, that the extra load of getting another degree takes away from doing the music side, my take fwiw is if you want to do a dual degree, do it as Cambridge Mom said, because you have passion for both academics and music, so you can handle the load and be willing to stretch yourself. I have heard a lot of comments, mostly from people who don’t know much about music, that getting a BM is a ‘light load’, since all you are doing is ‘playing music’, and that isn’t true, a BM program is heavy load, especially on time, so the second degree is not ‘filling unused time’, it is competing for time. </p>
<p>Just some notes - the Harvard/NEC program is a BA/MM not a BA/BM - one is not taking an equal number of classes at both schools in any of the years involved. Bard’s BA/BM requirements are 50% for the BM and 50% for the BA. Five years. And, yes, musicprnt is correct - one cannot only get a BM - if anything gets dropped it’s that and one can continue with a BA, even a BA in music. However conservatory merit money is also dropped at that point, although there may be some academic merit to replace it. And, yes, there can be some issues in scheduling - for instance I just learned of an amazing sounding course that will be offered 4 nights a week for three weeks - that will be a problem for a student who has orchestra twice a week. And orchestra will take precedence as it is a requirement for a performance major. Can the student get excused from orchestra for those three weeks? Unknown. I suspect, on the whole, a composition major has an easier time with double degrees because they don’t have the same level of ensemble commitments.</p>
<p>Spiritmanager as usual is right, the Harvard/ NEC program is like the Juilliard program with Columbia, it is a BA Harvard/MM NEC, that is done in 5 years, roughly 3 years academic study at Harvard, then 2 at NEC (give or take, I don’t think that is a rigid line). </p>
<p>I read your earlier post about classical guitar, which is a somewhat different “culture” from traditional orchestral instruments. There will be lots of practicing, but not the hours and hours of ensemble rehearsals. I’m interested to hear where your story goes, since I will not be surprised if I’m in a similar position with my son (aged 10), who is way more dedicated to his guitar than his studies.</p>
<p>You’ve mentioned Peabody in both posts. My son studies classical guitar with a Peabody Grad, and we know a few others (my daughter plays oboe in ensembles in their prep program, and we’re there an awful lot). I strongly recommend that you visit the place and get a feel for it. I think you’ll find that people there are very welcoming and forthcoming with information. The classical guitar chair there, is adored and revered by his current and past students. He teaches around the corner from my daughter’s quintet rehearsal, and I’ve chatted with a student of his a few times. This particular student opted for Peabody over one of the New York conservatories (I didn’t ask which) because of the welcoming environment at Peabody. If they have any guitar students who are doing dual studies at JHU, I’ll bet they’d be willing to talk to you and you’d be able to find out firsthand what the challenges are. </p>
<p>I’m reading between the lines that you seem to be struggling a bit with the idea of allowing your daughter to study music. My concern is that a kid who is trying to fill requirements of two programs is stretched pretty thin, and runs the risk of ending up as a jack-of-all-trades (master of none). It might be better to let her be a really great music major (who may go on to graduate work in a different field entirely . . . that happens), rather than a mediocre dual major.</p>
<p>What does your daughter want most?</p>
<p>You may have already seen this link, which was mentioned on a thread here about a month ago: </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html</a></p>
<p>It gives lots of food for thought on the double degree question. </p>
<p>As I said before, I’d highly recommend that you visit Peabody/JHU. Even if it’s not the right place for your daughter, I’m willing to bet you’ll find information there that will help her craft the ideal path for herself.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, Bard requires a double degree if you are in the conservatory.</p>
<p>There are many options to look into besides dual degree. A general music major (BA) with lessons on the side, for instance. Or a major in anything else with lessons on the side, for that matter. Or a minor in music, or a minor in something else while doing a music major. Read the link to the Peabody essay on “double degree dilemma”
that noviceatolier linked.</p>
<p>We talked with NEC about the Harvard-NEC program (yes,. BA/MM) and were told we could accomplish the same thing more affordably with private lessons outside of Harvard. I am so glad my daughter did not commit to the 5 years because she really wants something different at this point after her BA (still in music).</p>
<p>I am not sure of the motivation for double degrees. I think it makes sense for someone who has an intense academic interest outside of music. But for some, the implication of a double degree is that majoring in music is somehow “not enough”, that it is risky, and I vehemently disagree. I will say it again: I vehemently disagree!</p>
<p>I vaguely remember a post from you about guitar. There are many good schools for guitar: I would think your priority would be the guitar teacher, not the availability of a double degree program. Conservatories and colleges alike (one liberal arts college that is well-thought of, offered to find a teacher for my daughter, because they had no guitar teacher, so there may even be hidden possibilities.) But, again, the teacher does NOT even have to be at the school, if your daughter attends a college versus conservatory. Private lessons can happen outside school. The only issue with that is affordability, which is an important factor for some. </p>
<p>I think I mentioned Hartt, Ithaca and Bennington besides the usual suspects such as NEC, Oberlin, San Francisco, Juilliard etc. Curtis may have added guitar, or maybe I am thinking of Bard (Spirit Manager can say).</p>
<p>@Compmom - it was Curtis which added guitar. Bard still does not offer classical guitar within the conservatory - although there are teachers in the college program. Otherwise, as usual, I agree with everything above!</p>