Hi all! I’m hoping this isn’t redundant, but I could not find a post on this exact topic. I’m a HS Jr that is dual enrolling full-time at a well-respected Minnesota State university. I will graduate with ~ 90 credits, including 2 years of Chem w/ lab (General and Organic), a year of calc-based physics, Calc I & II, General Bio w/ lab, and a multitude of SS/English/etc. credits. My GPA is a 3.975 UW. I will also graduate from the college with at least one Associate’s degree. My plan is to apply pre-med(Biochem/Genetics dual major) to several of the ivies, JH, UC schools, and a few “safety” type schools. Long-term I want to get my Md/PhD in pediatric genetic research. Disregarding other factors such as test scores and ECs, which are all fine, how do you think these colleges will view my DE credits? Will it add to or detract from my app? Also, would it be helpful to take AP exams to show proficiency? Any other advice for DE students such as myself looking to get into competitive colleges? Anything is very much appreciated. Thank you!
Other than organic chemistry, what courses would you take that aren’t available at your high school through AP?
How does a Dual Enrollment student amass 90 credits in 2-years (assuming this is semester credits)?
If you are targeting universities that accept Dual Enrollment credits, there is no need to take AP exams (IMHO).
There is a chance that schools won’t accept any of your DE courses for your premed requirements. You’ll need to check on that.
There is a high probability they will accept them as general credits that do not apply to a degree. Speaking from experience, about 30 something dual enrolled credits.Some will be accepted to the major , it all depends on the school. Get a high grade point in each class if possible.
What schools are you looking at? Some colleges do not accept OOS DE credits of if the DE course took place inside the high school or it is solely for high school students. In those cases, taking CLEP or AP would be a good backup plan. I know a students from California with lots of DE credits from CC but none of the credits were accepted by UMich.
I have had kids take DE credits in different states at 4 yr universities and have been able to receive credit for them. It really is destination university dependent. You might need to have the courses reviewed, and depending on how the content matches up with the destination university, receive credit. But, only certain schools even grant credit. Read their websites. It is pretty easy info to find.
If you are premed student, why not complete your 4-year degree at this well-respected Minnesota State university? They will obviously take most (if not all) of your DE credits, allowing you to finish your undergraduate degree in 2 years or less or allows you to get a second BS or pursue a MS degree within that 4-year window. This could potentially cut cost your college in half, since those 60-90 credits will be free of cost to you. Due to the high cost of a medical school education, minimizing your undergraduate cost will go a far way in reducing your overall student loan debt after med school.
Most universities have a minimum number of credits that a student is required to complete at their university (45/60 credits) in order for that institution to grant you bachelors degree. I don’t think this is an issue when you complete your degree at the same Minnesota State U, nor will it affect your chances of getting into a medical school (your ultimate goal). I cannot fathom why a premed student would apply to a university that would not accept most of his DE credits from a 4-year university.
+1 What @Jamrock411 said. Most logical answer.
Thank you all for your responses! Just to clarify, my question was more regarding how colleges view DE credits in comparison to other college-level courses (AP, IB, etc.) in terms of acceptance. I have already determined that I will be applying to other colleges, regardless of whether or not they accept my DE credits. I have the test scores and grades to be competitive at selective colleges and am financially prepared for this as well. @Jamrock411 : The reason I mentioned that I am doing DE at a respected state university was simply to give more insight into where these credits are coming from (not CC). I don’t have any intention of staying at this school as it does not offer the research and academic opportunities I am looking for. Also, the classes are 3-5 credits apiece. I am taking 17-26 credits/semester, which will allow me to graduate with ~ 90 credits. Again, thank you for your help!
@halcyonheather Due to family separation and the subsequent move, I had to transfer from my AP-offering private school to a rural school that does not offer an AP program. I do have some AP credits from 10th grade, but decided that DE was my best option to get a quality education given my situation. If AP was an option, I would be doing that. However, I do believe that DE is just as good, if not better. It really depends on the instructor. Thank you!
For medical school admission, all college courses, including those taken while in high school, count toward your GPA, even if the undergraduate school you attend does not include them in your GPA for its purposes. This is presumably a good thing if you have a 4.0 or close to it in the college courses you are taking while in high school. Note that they are also counted as fulfilling pre-med course requirements (in contrast, AP credits are often not accepted for pre-med course requirements by many medical schools).
If you do consider a school like Michigan that is stingy with subject credit and placement for transferred college courses, you could take AP tests as well for the overlapping courses. This will not give you extra credit, but it may give you subject credit and placement at such schools. However, transferability is likely better at a Minnesota public university. Be aware of the high cost of medical school; you may want to consider cost carefully when choosing an undergraduate school.
Experience with actual college courses does give you a head start in knowing how college courses work. While AP courses may cover the same or similar material as frosh-level college courses, their format is more like other high school courses than college courses.
@SciGirl001 It sounds like you have multiple issues to consider. If you are planning on med school, how many yrs do you want to spend in undergrad? Depending on the “selective” university, they may or may not give you any credit toward graduation or limit the number of credit (one school my ds applied to only allowed 16 transferable hrs.) Other schools will allow up to 60 transfer credit hours.
As far as if they will treat them the same as AP credits in terms of admissions, yes.
I am not familiar with med school admissions, but many of the posts here have stated that elite schools are not necessary and finding schools with strong assistance for applying to medical schools is desirable. The other mantra is that med school is expensive, so keeping UG costs low is also desirable.
Fwiw, my current college student graduated high school with enough college credits to be almost a jr. His university did accept all of his coursework. He is technically a 2nd semester sophomore and will finish almost everything required to graduate this semester. His school has a university scholars program that allows advanced undergrads to complete their masters simultaneously with their bachelor’s. He has decided to go that route since his scholarship money will pay for it and it will make him a stronger candidate for grad school applications. I do not know, however, if something like that would be at all beneficial for med school applications.
So you would take 90 credits in two years at this MN school while still in high school. Do you have to pay for these courses?
Then you would apply to selective universities and would start over with a 4yr degree and take chem, bio, ochem and all other premed requirements again if that school does not accept them?
I agree with others that it seems a waste of time and resources if your goal is MD/PHD and research. Why not finish early at this school and then apply to top grad programs?
As mentioned in the excellent responses above, whether the DE credits are accepted is very school dependent.
My son looked at several private schools that would give him credit for AP but not necessarily DE, especially if the DE classes fulfilled a high school requirement. On the flip side, public universities tended to be much more generous with accepting DE credits.
My son did not want to walk away from 30+ credits.
We don’t have any pre-med experience but everything I hear about pre-med is to get as high a GPA as possible, and as high an MCAT score as you can. And then on top of that you want to do it as inexpensively as possible (at a respectable school of course). A friend of ours has a son in residency with over $250K+ in debt. You may feel you have finances covered but I’m not sure you can save too much for med school.
Good luck with your path forward and great job with your high school education.
@billcsho I don’t understand why high schools don’t do a better job of explaining to students that community college credits may not transfer out of state. Whenever possible dual enrollment should be done at a four-year university. For many students, dual enrollment in a community college is just a terrible idea.
However, the University of Michigan is pretty stingy with transfer credit, even from four year schools. I.e. high school students taking college courses at either community colleges or four year schools are likely to run into transfer credit issues at the University of Michigan. See https://www.ugadmiss.umich.edu/TCE/Public/CT_TCESearch.aspx .
The use of community colleges for dual enrollment is likely due to the fact that most students do eventually go on to attend in-state public schools, whose pre-set articulation agreements with community college make transfer credit easier. The community colleges are also more likely to be in commuting range of more high school students than four year schools.