And I think whenever there is an isolated community and women are very much subservient and don’t have a voice, this type of behavior is enabled. Having said that, a person has to have something wrong with them to do this, and to do this multiple times, and to his sisters. The environment doesn’t create this, but it allows it.
I think the undeniable irony about this whole affair is that the Duggars go to such great lengths to protect their girls from all the sinners and heathens they believe lie beyond the confines of their home. And then the person that actually posed the most danger to them was in their own house and raised by them. Are they so far gone that they cannot reflect on this fact and admit that perhaps their approach has flaws?
@lookingforward I took Jim Bob’s statement to mean incest/abuse within his church community. I would have to re-read the quote to see why I drew that conclusion. To be part of a community where this is commonplace would be disturbing in itself. I would run the other way. If this is the case, the girls are growing up thinking this is what? Unavoidable? A part of life?
I only saw a clip, but in the clip JB said that after this happened they talked with other parents and families and learned that many other families had had similar experiences.
He doesn’t actually say that he talked to other families in their faith community, but certainly you don’t get the impression that JB&M would talk to families who don’t belong to their faith community about something like this.
I think JB was trying to make it seem as if what Josh did wasn’t that unusual, but the impact for me was just the opposite. This cult has a serious problem.
Another thing that bothers me about the Duggars is the constant sexualization of their lives. Being told to look at their shoes when an “immodestly” dressed woman is near, the lack of any kind of touching during normal courtship, the strict dress code enforced to avoid sexual thoughts on the part of anyone who sees the girls. It’s just not healthy to have so much of your life’s activities dictated by constant concern with sex. This isn’t suppression of sex - on the contrary, it’s putting sex front and center in your life.
On the other hand, I also don’t think that Josh’s behavior can be blamed on such a culture. I’m no psychology expert, but I just can’t envision a normal 14 or 15 year old boy seeing a 5 year old as sexual temptation. Add to that the fact that the 5 year old was his sister, and we’re way outside normal boundaries.
As for JB saying one of their lessons from Josh’s situation was to make sure the boys never babysat the girls, that says to me that he viewed the sexual abuse as a normal problem inherent in the male psyche and probably in human original sin, rather than a deviation from normal human behavior.
One thing that no one has mentioned directly:
JB said in the interview that Josh said he was “curious about girls.” I can completely understand that curiosity. He knew at age 14 that girls are different “down there,” and he wanted to know what they looked like. I think everyone can understand that.
But in most families, boys would “play doctor” with a female friend, or go online, or look things up in the big encyclopedia, or see their baby sister in the bathtub. They wouldn’t have to molest anyone to have their curiosity satisfied.
@3Trees, I know you addressed your post #743 to @churchmusicmom, but I just wanted to thank you for sharing, and I’m sorry you had to go through that.
Also, when you are writing to a specific poster, if you will put @ in front of their screen name, they will be notified that someone has addressed them in a post. In a thread like this that gets a lot of posts, it’s not a given that she would even necessarily see your post if she only checks in now and then.
JB saying that this sort of abuse within a family isn’t that unusual and is often much worse is just an attempt to downplay the seriousness of their own family issue. It’s a deflection tactic, just like saying Josh made “bad choices.” Repeated molestation of younger sisters is pathological behavior and indicative of a serious psychological problem, not just isolated instances of misbehavior.
The Duggars live in their own little world and a lot of the issues with the way they perceive this abuse problem and their reactions to what has happened is a result of their lack of education. The parents have no perspective on legal issues, psychological problems, professional therapy, the larger, long-term issues of opening up their family home to TV cameras. They have a simplistic view of everything.
I could be mistaken, but I believe the second interview will be with the two oldest Duggar daughters. It didn’t sound (to me) like any more of the parent interview would be aired.
I thought he said (more than once) that worse things than what Josh had done had taken place in these other church friend families. The implication (perhaps unintended) was that these other troubles were sexual in nature. Certainly they were things that warranted similar actions, like removing the guilty child from the home.
784, I agree with the fixation about sex, lack of sex, modesty, pregnancy, fertility all being such a constant issue. We don't have nearly the amount of "sex" references in our pretty liberal household. And the way they whip out the pregnancy tests would make me blush after having 2 kids!
It sort of reminds me of when I was doing a weight loss program; I spent so much time thinking about what I could eat, what I couldn’t eat, when I could eat it, what treat I could have, what calories were, that I was spending ALL my time thinking about food. I finally figured out, that couldn’t possibly be healthy and I just try to make good decisions now.
Funny thing is, JB and Michelle will always say, “So-and-so and so-and-so have chosen not to have any physical type of relationship” as if these kids actually had a choice. I’m pretty sure if any of their kids made another choice, they would be kicked out of the house or ostracized. What kind of choice is that?
@3trees: I am so sorry about your experiences. But I will say that your assertion that I have no idea about “…how much pressure is brought to bear on girls who are abused by a family member to remain silent, to dismiss, lie or even defend their abuser, and how damaging it can be to hear the hair splitting excuses that are offered to trivialize the most profound violation of innocence and trust …” comes from a whole lot of assumptions. You have no idea about my past.
My point about the older sisters feeling more grief and abuse from the present situation comes from their own statements. And the records of those involved in this situation, who were under-aged at the time, were not supposed to be released. From all I have read and from the vehemence of your response to me, I gather that your past history is probably more (goodness, I don’t know the right word here) “traumatic” than what has been described as happening to the Duggar girls. So their response to their situation is likely to be different than your response to your own.
As for your calling 14 year old Josh Duggar an “admitted serial predator”-- this happened 12 years ago. There is no report of his repeating any assault on these girls. I am not trying to “defend” him…just trying to get people here to see that their rush to judgement might be overblown.
Again, I am so sorry about your past experience. Apparently my differing point of view in this whole discussion has failed to accomplish anything constructive, so I will probably bow out.
Its fair to say that unless someone chooses to share their history, none of us knows any of each other’s personal experiences that flavor our thoughts and opinions on many of these sensitive subjects. Bravo, @3trees, for your being brave enough to find your voice and share your story here.
Did the issue of JB calling for life sentences during his political campaign for people guilty of incest come up at all? If so, how did he answer it?
Gosh – surprisingly, Megyn Kelly forgot to ask that one.
Among many others!
I do wonder if, like Gov. Huckabee (who could not possibly have expected the backlash he received from his own supporters when he made the decision to very publicly defend Josh Duggar), Fox News may have underestimated how their average viewer would respond to that interview. Apparently the backlash on Twitter was extreme, but I don’t know if much of that was from their most loyal viewers.
Don’t recall that Teri - just the one question to Michelle about the robocalls/Transgenders sexually harming children in public bathrooms question. At which there was one very awkward 6 second pause by Michelle of how to respond.
Admitted. Serial. Predator. Josh admitted it. He repeated it on more than one occasion with more than one victim. A predator is defined as “a person or group that ruthlessly exploits others”. Josh is a person that exploited others - his own sisters and another person - by invading their personal sexual privacy without consent. BINGO.
Washington Post TV critic reviews last night’s interview:
huge gap IMO, between not completing a police report against your child, and not getting the young victims legitimate help, or the abuser help either.
They surely are savvy enough to understand what the outside world expects.
Multiple instances of incest are not going to be mitigated with a stern talking to for the latter, and admonishments to forgive for the former.
Just to clarify: Dictionary.com defines incest as sexual intercourse between closely related persons. No one has suggested that intercourse occurred.