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Here you go… :rolleyes:</p>
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'81? … :p</p>
<p>yes, I was there as a ChE at the time (not necessarily '81)…most ChE’s in my class had turned down MIT for Princeton, desiring a more well-rounded education, paricularly if they changed their minds on majoring in ChE. In fact we lost 30% of our entering class by Junior year as kids found that the department was a little too tough for them.</p>
<p>Now I see the Princeton is ranked somewhere between #7 and #12 in ChE.</p>
<p>There were a couple of real scary individuals in the class in terms of brilliance. Still remember sometime in Sophomore year in our Organic Chemistry class where one of the ChE’s was fiddling around during midterm exam study time with a certain reaction and managed to reduce the number of steps from about 56 steps to about 18 steps to get from one structure to the other. The process is now named after him. Needless to say, he is now a Professor at a major university in ChE.</p>
<p>At the time our professors told us that we could have our pick of top ChE graduate programs, particularly MIT, if we mainted a “B” average in the department (the curve was centered at a “C+”).</p>
<p>and what happened to that ChE. class?</p>
<p>About 1/3 went to top 10 ChE. graduate programs, including 3 to MIT, about 1/3 to top 10 MBA programs, including 7 to Harvard, Stanford and Wharton. One was a Churchill Scholar and went to Cambridge and the only premed went to Harvard Med School.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry to the OP for muddling his post with a response that does not relate to his question, but to John Adams12, you seem like one of the most pretentious and unappealing people on the entire planet, and have just single-handedly convinced me to take MY offer for a full scholarship to Duke (the BN scholarship, not the Robertson) over the Ivies that I was accepted to.</p>
<p>For my part, I know of many BN Duke scholars who turned down schools MORE prestigious than Princeton (and, of course, Princeton itself) to attend Duke as a scholarship student. Maybe it’s so that they are part of a community graciously absent of arrogant clods like JohnAdams.</p>
<p>Furthermore, something tells me that your intense defense of your alma mater reflects some kind of deficiency in your life (whether it be general unhappiness, the fact that you are probably alone and will die that way, or you didn’t get as good of a job as you thought you would have coming out of your precious Princeton), and I can only hope that the rest of the Princeton community, both past and present, is not as nauseatingly bitter and misinformed as you are.</p>
<p>“For my part, I know of many BN Duke scholars who turned down schools MORE prestigious than Princeton (and, of course, Princeton itself) to attend Duke as a scholarship student. Maybe it’s so that they are part of a community graciously absent of arrogant clods like JohnAdams.”</p>
<p>You lose your argument right here with the above statement. There are no undergraduate schools more prestigious than Princeton in this country, including your “precious” Duke that you selected over some Ivies. Now honestly Mvingi, you weren’t accepted at Princeton were you? You just sound like another Dukie here on CC who is bitter that his/her school isn’t quite as prestigious as one of the very top schools, which certainly Princeton is listed among.</p>
<p>Well, I’m not particularly interested in the prestige argument one way or the other, but I have to say that someone who would make a decision about a school based on the writings of one anonymous online poster shows, at the very least, a lack of judgment.</p>
<p>Mvingi, well, thanks for the kind comments.</p>
<p>I will save your post below for future reference, as it will come in very handy in the future:</p>
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<p>rjk, yes, we have another Dukie that was rejected by his #1 college choice, Princeton, and had to settle for a second tier school that looks somwhat like Princeton.</p>
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<p>^First of all, I agree that Princeton is one of the most (top 2 or 3) undergraduate school in the US… BUT it ism not inconceivable that one would choose Duke over Princeton. If I went by pure rankings, I would be going to U Chicago next year but no, there’s more to it that than. </p>
<p>Also, is it just me or does EVERY thread that has a “Duke vs X” title turn into a heated battle?</p>
<p>As a current prospectivd student, I think the defenses for Duke here are ridiculous.</p>
<p>Duke offers this scholarship program to match what the Ivies do for their students, except Duke doesn’t have a large enough endowment, so they just do it for their top students. Princeton is going to give every student a chance to meet professors, get more personalized teaching, and great opportunities. Even if you’re in the prestigious program at Duke it would be tough for me to believe they have as much money available as Princeton, with its massive per-student endowment.</p>
<p>Something else people aren’t really talking about is this–it looks to me like youve probably been a top student all your life. While a lot of smart people go to Duke, your average student at Princeton (and the general makeup of the student body) is going to be more excellent and push you to be better. You’ll probably get that from the 100 or so students in your scholarship program, but it seems like a different animal when you can be amidst thousands of students at Princeton who were all like you and who can all bring different experiences to the table.</p>
<p>I’m not a Princeton Undergrad touting my school, I’m just a prospective student calling it like I see it. People from Duke might go crazy, but I think the general atmosphere of the college at Princeton is going to push you harder to be the best you can be academically.</p>
<p>While some cannot fathom a prospective student choosing Duke over Princeton, I would like to use my first post to hopefully provide a deeper understanding of what may be missing from the conversation. I am a 1970’s graduate from Duke and currently have a son who is a B.N. Duke Scholar. I still follow CC forums as our daughter is finalizing her college choice as a member of the Class of 2014.</p>
<p>I was very interested in several Ivies and spent time on Princeton’s campus each spring while playing in my high school’s regional golf tournament at nearby Beden’s Brook CC. I fondly remember the Big Bux at Buxton’s Ice Cream on Nassau St. I eventually decided to apply ED to Duke as it had the only Undergraduate program in Public Policy Studies at the time and I wanted to attend a university that had Division I athletics. </p>
<p>The striking difference about Duke is that it is a much younger institution than most, if not all, of its peers and the Ivies. For this reason, it is much more interdisciplinary and willing to take risks that are more difficult in centuries old universities. While age enables tremendous endowments and prestige to grow, the counter-weight can be impediments to change. Our President at the time, Terry Sanford, said Duke was a place of “outrageous ambitions” and challenged all involved to achieve them. I doubt any diploma or degree from any US university has appreciated as much as mine from the date of my graduation until today. While that appreciation may still not meet or exceed a Princeton degree, the Ivies remain at a level that has existed for decades, or even centuries, while dynamic younger institutions continue to climb and provide new models and rubrics for what future students, professors and administrators are drawn to.</p>
<p>As for my son, he excelled in high school and had a perfect SAT score. I tried very hard to have him visit the Philly to Boston stretch of fabulous universities. Instead, he had zero interest and we toured the west (Cal Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford and USC) and southern schools. Ultimately he was leaning to USC before receiving a BN Duke offer which sealed the deal for Duke. It should be noted that unlike the Robertson (a fabulous scholarship with all the attributes already noted in this thread), the BN is awarded to outstanding North and South Carolina students with a strong focus on developing future leaders in the region after graduation. The scholars have one summer together in a small community in the Carolinas and a summer program abroad to develop hands-on leadership skills. My son has absolutely thrived at Duke and we spent the Saturday of the NCAA Final Four together in Indy before driving back on Sunday for him to attend his Monday classes and to be with his classmates (other than the 660 Duke students in Indy on student tickets) on campus for the Championship game Monday night. No one is guaranteed a National Championship experience with your classmates and university community, but if it happens, it is a memory for a lifetime to go along with the world class education being provided. </p>
<p>So yes, Duke is not Princeton, or any other place. But it is distinctively Duke and offers a college experience that many find unequaled using their own perspective of what makes an institution great and the right fit for them. I would urge the original poster to determine the best fit for him and never look back. The incredible four years provided by opportunities you have will be fabulous wherever you choose to spend them. Don’t get caught up on rankings and perceptions of others as to what is “best” and instead maximize your opportunities and put your distinctive stamp on the place that offers them to you.</p>
<p>And finally, Mvingi, congratulations on receiving the BN Duke Scholarship. It is a wonderful group of scholars with incredibly diverse backgrounds and interests. Don and Minda, the heads of the program, are excellent. If Duke feels right for you, it will be a decision you won’t regret.</p>
<p>alam1 - unfortunately, yes it seems that way. It could very well be due to second thoughts about making the decision to attend the school. </p>
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<p>Where are you from? That is the most important thing to consider before deciding which school you go.</p>
<p>gsoncdad, excellent stories about the great institution that is Duke. That BN Duke Scholar Program seems fanstastic, particularly the summer program that brings together students from North and South Carolina to develop their leadership skills. Duke is one of my favorite schools, having many friends that are alumni from that school - including some that graduated in the '70’s like yourself. I have actually attended a Duke/NC basketball game at Duke as a guest of one of its alumni (a truly incredible experience) and have attended Duke Regional playoff games in the New York area, again as a guest of alumni.</p>
<p>Regarding the potential Duke student, unfortunately Marshall will probably not be attending Duke. Something about discrepancies in the admissions application pertaining to, among others, regional sports awards even though the student was injured most of the season, national poetry competition awards (3rd place, honorable mention or neither), and amount of hours spent at work (40 hours/wk during school year or 10 hours/wk during school year or just a one-time summer job between junior and senior year). It now appears that Princeton, Dartmouth and Amherst avoided big problems by rejecting Marshall - maybe they sensed that something was “not right” about his application and acted accordingly. The same with the Morehead-Cain Scholar program at UNC.</p>
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I think you’re really overstating the difference between Duke and Princeton here. First of all, there isn’t really a valid reason to think that a higher endowment translates to a more “personalized” education. If that was really the case, LACs like Williams and Swarthmore would lag behind the Ivies in undergraduate education and they clearly don’t. Duke is a top-notch undergraduate institution with a very supportive faculty, so I would find it hard to believe that Princeton has drastically better undergraduate focus.</p>
<p>A couple of points:</p>
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<li><p>Princeton students are only slightly stronger academically than Duke students if you look at the average SAT scores.</p></li>
<li><p>When you get to the level of schools like Duke and Princeton, neither of its student bodies are going to “push you harder” than the other. Both student bodies are motivated, academically ambitious and very disciplined.</p></li>
<li><p>Also, the Robertson program’s endowment is significantly larger than Princeton’s average endowment per student.</p></li>
<li><p>The OP can’t go wrong wherever he chooses to go.</p></li>
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<p>lesdia, I believe that MSauce meant endowment per student. You picked a wrong example to prove your point because both Williams and Swarthmore have relatively very high endowments per student, not at the level of Princeton and Yale but certainly higher or at the level of all other Ivies and Duke.</p>
<p>Endowment per Student</p>
<p>Princeton - $1,721,000
Yale - $1,602,000</p>
<p>Harvard - $969,000
Swarthmore - $758,000
Williams - $680,000
Dartmouth - $483,000
Brown - $242,000
Columbia - $254,000
Penn - $214,000
Cornell - $196,000</p>
<p>Duke - $317,000</p>
<p>JohnAdams, why do you put quoted text at the end of your posts?</p>
<p>I’d think that if you are attempting to address somebody’s claims, it would make sense to indicate what you are replying to before you type your own stuff.</p>
<p>Just saying.</p>
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Do both schools provided average SATs? I thought only the middle 50% range was provided in which small disparities actually correlate to significant differences in the average.</p>
<p>If you are planning to go to grad/med/law school, than being a robertson scholar @ duke will be more eyecatching to grad school admissions than a regular @ Pton. Also, the grad deflation @ Pton is a major concern for grad/med/law school applicants. The attention, resources and opportunities you receive as a Robertson scholar will benefit you in the long run. Its just that you’ll have to live without a Princeton aura around you.</p>
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<p>Can you prove this, or are you just pulling it out of the ether?</p>