Duke v. UNC

<p>I'm posting the same topic in the UNC thread as well to get an idea from students at both schools, but basically, what are some of the big differences between Duke and UNC?</p>

<p>I know all of the statistics ( duke is private, unc is state, unc is double student population than duke, so on and so forth)</p>

<p>What are some of the things that can be put in a stat (type of kids, is duke really for smarter kids, can an OOS student fit in as well at UNC as he can at duke, how is the social scene, who has the more attractive student body, anything like that which cannot be found on their website or any statistics)</p>

<p>thanks</p>

<p>i got into both but i ultimately choose duke for several reasons. First of all, unc is awesome for a public school and if you are instate it is a hard decision to pick because UNC is much much cheaper. For an OOS student UNC is like 40k and Duke is about 50k including everything so it doesn't seem worth it to go to unc unless u get more aid or some scholarship when you are paying so much more than someone that goes instate. as far as fitting in, i think its ultimately the same. they both have good social scenes. duke just has the prestige factor that unc doesn't (not because they are necessarily inferior, but rather they are a public school, so that holds them back in some regard). it just seems like unc treats its instate students so much better than oos students with all of the benefits. the nc legislature passed legislation to decrease tuition for instate students but increase it to out of state students. theres a huge gap, it doesnt seem right that you an oos student presumably smarter than the average student at unc has to pay so much more for the same education.</p>

<p>oh and most importantly duke basketball > unc basketball</p>

<p>yes... a fact that shall be once again proven on saturday night</p>

<p>nmehta4:</p>

<p>Duke actually costs about $16,000 more per year for out of staters. Saving $64,000 in extra debt upon graduating would make a choice of UNC "worth it" for many. With its $19K tuition price tag UNC remains one of the few "bargains" to be found out there among top schools. </p>

<p>jkterrapin:</p>

<p>The other big advantage to Chapel Hill is, of course, Chapel Hill. UNCs campus integrates into a great surrounding community and really opens up lots of opportunities socially beyond Greek life (which dominates the social scene at Duke to a much greater extent). Duke's campus is much more insular. Chapel Hill, deservedly, makes it on to a lot of Top 10 college town lists. Durham, deservedly, occasionally makes it on to Bottom 10 lists.</p>

<p>Duke has a much more diverse student body geographically but not financially. I've never heard out of staters complain that they felt anything other than welcomed on the Chapel Hill campus. UNC has great alumni connections regionally, Duke much more so nationally along with better name recognition.</p>

<p>Well, I agree that Duke isn't as socioeconomically diverse. But what about racially? UNC is 70% white (Daily</a> Tar Heel%5DDaily">http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/storage/paper885/news/2007/11/06/University/Unc-Diversity.Evolving.For.60.Years-3080491.shtml)). Although I can't find the exact statistic, I do know that the past two years, the incoming class at Duke has been around half minorities. </p>

<p>Also, don't knock geographic diversity. I have had seen such a diversity of experiences, conversations, and thought here because of geographic diversity. I can visit my friend who lives in Dubai en route to India during the summer, I learned about New York City's craze for private HIGH SCHOOL admissions, I had my boyfriend from Chicago tell me why he loves the winters that are nationally condemned as being the worst in the country, I learned how to make sweet tea from my best friend from South Carolina, learned how it feels to be from a "province" of America rather than a state from my Puerto Rican neighbor. UNC likes to paint us as all white kids from New Jersey, but that couldn't be further from the truth. We're more diverse than they are, in both respects. Yes, I will concede that we are less economically diverse than UNC-- surprise surprise, UNC is a public school! You can't have it all. But I do love what we do have. </p>

<p>UNC is not a bad school. I go to Duke and don't think UNC is full of blithering idiots. It's just very different. I will say academics at Duke, from what my Robertson Scholar friends have told me, are a lot more difficult. It is easier to get recognition of your alma mater outside of the South with Duke. I personally love going to a school with only 1,600 ish students per undergrad class. UNC has Chapel Hill- admittedly awesome. Like Duke, it also has a beautiful campus, but <em>surprise</em> I love Duke's more. There is a huge difference in the "feel" of a public school vs. a private school. A lot of students at Duke are preppy to some degree, and yes, there are students here whose fashion would fit in better at a public school. I went to a public school for high school, though, and I wanted private for college. It was a great decision; I'm just constantly amazed by the caliber of students who surround me, and the opportunities that we have due to our resources. From my classes and visits to UNC, I have to admire their arts facilities and planetarium, but I much prefer Duke's science facilities. </p>

<p>Instead of asking to compare Duke and UNC, I would consider just asking Duke students about their experiences, and the same from UNC students. And then compare them yourselves. I am surely going to be attacked, at least mentally, by some UNC student who says I'm full of **** because I don't go there-- and rightly so. These are just my general impressions from my limited exposure to Chapel Hill. I can't compare the two schools for you-- that's something you'll have to do on your own.</p>

<p>Here we go: Duke is 56% Caucasian.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1023310&ltid=1&intbucketid=%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1023310&ltid=1&intbucketid=&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Okay, so I just saw the responses to your post on the UNC board and I have to say something about the pretension/money/wealth thing. If you are honestly very upset and easily put off by seeing people wear North Face, the mere presence of rich people around you, and the existence of wealth, then perhaps Duke is not for you. In fact, a lot of top private schools would be knocked out. What I'm saying is that YES, WE HAVE RICH PEOPLE for God's sake, yes yes yes, Tarheels, we have rich students. Whoopdedo. We also have BMEs who spend all day studying in the library, Mirecourt residents who fight to be tent #1 every year, skateboarders who are the ire of people who run the Plaza and incoming freshmen who have done research with Jane Goodall. We're different. We're not all rich. We're perhaps richer, as a whole, than UNC, but again, if the mere presence of wealth bothers you and you are going to discriminate against a lot of very cool people just because they have money, then go to UNC. Whatever. Sorry if this sounds as if I'm irritated, but I am-- at Tarheels whose beef with Duke students is that "they're rich". Choosing a university based on the relative "street cred" of students' parents' money is lame. </p>

<p>If, however, someone mentions an elitist attitude, I would have to say that yes, there is an elitist attitude at Duke sometimes-- but it's not because of money. It really isn't. Yes, there is the Connecticut CEO's children circle that is pretentious about money, but the vast majority of Dukies who are pretentious are like that because of academics. The pride in being a top university. I'm not defending it or anything, I'm just trying to explain it better for you so you don't think that Duke is pretentious RICH kids. When we're pretentious, it's for working hard, being intelligent, and succeeding at what we do. </p>

<p>I'm middle class. I roomed with a billionaire's daughter last year. You know what? She was probably one of the nicest people I knew at Duke-- period. I learned as much from a CEO's daughter as I could have from a poor kid from Compton.</p>

<p>Pri430- I don't mind if someone is rich, poor, middle-class or anything like that. To me it doesn't matter at all. What does slightly bother me are rich kids who flaunt their money, look down upon others who either aren't as smart or don't have as much money, and are pretentious. I have heard mixed things about the pretentiousness at Duke and will just need to visit and talk to students to get my own opinion. I have already decided not to consider Princeton just because I couldn't deal with the "eating clubs" and all of the exclusive, pretentious attitude. Hopefully this is not the attitude at Duke, but its not rich people I have problems with, it is the "i am better than you b/c my dad has money" attitude that bothers me.</p>

<p>pri430:</p>

<p>Duke's administration has gone far to advance minority numbers at the school. But those numbers belie the reality of a campus that has been and remains one the most self-segregated of any I've seen, from central campus living arrangements to cafeteria seatings to suppressed racial tensions that periodically erupt. I can't say that things are necessarily any better in Chapel Hill.</p>

<p>the tuition is the same i thought for NC and SC for duke. its a private school, location does not matter for tuition.</p>

<p>wbwa - as someone who lived on Central for three years (when it was possible), I think that the situation is more that folks who want to cook for themselves and pay less for housing end up on Central than anything else. Costs less, you have your own kitchen and "commons room," and you can park right where you live.</p>

<p>I also wonder what a solution to self-segregation is. The Campus Culture Initiative report tried to "solve" it by saying no 12 or more people could choose to live together. The question is, what really forms a community, and how can a school go about creating places for those communities to form? </p>

<p>To be honest, I think part of "self-segregation" is that Duke has large enough populations to actually form vibrant communities. To some degree, those communities are struggling with "self-subsegregation." I remember being at an event hosted by the Center for Race Relations last year and the question came up, with respect to the Black Student Alliance and other groups, whether students felt like they had to try to be a part of some singular entity or if the diversity of students of color could be expressed. Are there issues that students face for which a unified front is necessary to have numbers, and if so, does it diminish diversity by collecting people into such macro-scopic categories?</p>

<p>The same thing happens with Asian students - there's an Asian Students Association, but if you were actually in Asia, there'd be no way that the incredibly diverse group of students in ASA would be "lumped" into a single category. And now that Duke is on the order of 20% Asian, more specialized "communities" are forming - which contributes to a different kind of self-segregation but also gives a foundation and environment for expression of culture....</p>

<p>Regarding self-segregation:</p>

<p>(Disclaimer: I'm committing the CC cardinal sin of relying on anecdotes and personal experiences, rather than data sets and journal articles, so take this with a grain of salt)</p>

<p>Most of my friends who claim that they don't have a "self-segregation problem" at their schools go to a school that is largely majority white. I grew up in a city that is mostly white. Of course there isn't a huge self-segregation image when there aren't as many minorities, because when it happens, it's not as visible. If you went to Rutgers in NJ, purely because there are so many Indians there, it is entirely possible that an entire bench of people is full of Indians. But that doesn't mean they're self-segregating, just that statistically, it's more probable that their friends are Indian too. At Duke, people say that black students self-segregate more so than, say, at UCSD. Do you know how many black students there are at UC San Diego? Not that many. So who gets accused of self-segregating at UCSD? Asians. Ever think that maybe it's because Asians form a huge part of the campus population? For some reason, I never hear any accusations of "self-segregating whites" at Vandy or BC. </p>

<p>Regarding central campus living arrangements, I have no idea because I don't live on Central. Cafeteria seatings? I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone I know just sits where there's any empty table. </p>

<p>Race at Duke, like everywhere, is a really complicated subject. I've probably contradicted myself many times in this comment, but the main gist is that I'm tired of hearing that Duke is racially fractured. Most stereotypes have a grain of truth, so I think the "grain" here is that we have a huge minority population at Duke (emphasis: of DIFFERENT minorities, not just one), and we're working out how to have it all work: balancing importance of cultural groups without over-empowering the importance of race, the connotations of "minority recruitment", homogeneous Greek life. But you know, almost half the school, not white, in the South? That's huge. It doesn't always work. But most of the time it does, and most of these racial tensions to which people allude are on the fringe and have been exacerbated by non-Duke students (thank you, lacrosse). </p>

<p>I would not say that Duke has racial tensions erupting and is self-segregated, because that connotes a static university that doesn't give a damn about working for change. You know what IS static? Keeping levels of minority recruitment low and claiming there's no self-segregation problem, because everyone molds to the majority with the occasional MLK Day event, Lunar New Year celebration, and you have a group of friends of "all different colors!" like some freaking Crayola box of crayons. </p>

<p>Then again, my Duke is different from anyone else's Duke, and I interpret things different from other students. My experience has largely been positive because I made it so, but I understand if anyone else thinks differently of race at Duke.</p>

<p>Well, jkterrapin, I honestly don't know what else I can possibly say about pretentiousness, because I fear that the more I try to explain Duke, the more I keep regressing into ridiculous generalizations that are exactly what my professors tell me to avoid. So I guess the best thing for you to do would be yes, visit the campus, but most of all, talk to a wide array of students. Don't just talk to one, don't just talk to the ones you know, but just walk into a bunch of different events or classrooms and talk to students. That way, you can judge for yourself how the average student is.</p>

<p>
[quote]
oh and most importantly duke basketball > unc basketball

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
yes... a fact that shall be once again proven on saturday night

[/quote]
</p>

<p>North Carolina beat Duke</p>

<p>re Money:</p>

<p>Our son is able to attend Duke because he qualified for considerable financial aid. Many of the students around him come from families with substantial wealth. What does he call them? drum roll here: "Friends." Oh, and BTW, this group of friends is comprised of males and females of many backgrounds, faiths, races, and ethnicities. Many of them participate in campus groups oriented around their race or religion or such. But I don't see that as self-segregation when they attend the presentations of each other's organizations, deliberately meet for dinner now that they are scattered across campus, care for and about each other...you know, behave like friends.</p>

<p>According to him, money or lack of it has not mattered the tiniest bit to anyone. What matters is intelligence, humor, personality, etc.. </p>

<p>Now, there probably are some pretentious people with money; there was the same type at the prestigious State U I attended decades ago. But S has no interest in them, because he wouldn't like them anyway. Jerks are jerks, whether they are wealthy jerks or jerks of more modest means!</p>

<p>"Duke actually costs about $16,000 more per year for out of staters. Saving $64,000 in extra debt upon graduating would make a choice of UNC "worth it" for many. With its $19K tuition price tag UNC remains one of the few "bargains" to be found out there among top schools."</p>

<p>Duke costs $16k more, but the average financial aid package at Duke is $20k more than UNC's. So the average student saves $4k by going to Duke.</p>

<p>Owned.</p>

<p>randombetch:</p>

<p>This thread has fallen a bit off the poster's intended path but I have to answer your grossly misleading last statement.</p>

<p>I'm afraid your math is quite a bit off the mark. Duke's average financial aid package is higher than UNCs simply because the cost of attending the school is so much higher.</p>

<p>Last year, Duke's packages still left those who qualified for financial support (only 40% of the student body) still holding the bag for over $20,000/year on average. Of course, a full 60% of Duke students paid full fare - received no aid at all - and paid out $45,000 for tuition, room, board and fees alone.</p>

<p>UNCs maximal possible cost for the vast majority of entering freshman who are in-state is only $12,000 (tuition, room, board, fees). Of course, most of these students do recieve some form of financial aid to even further lower this already low figure. Out-of-state students by comparison pay a max of "only" $29,000. Many of these qualify for financial aid, others for academic scholarships offered by UNC, lowering the cost of attendance even further.</p>

<p>With the exception of those coming from low-income backgrounds (where there is reasonable cost equity between schools), all others, with rare exception, will pay dramatically less to attend UNC.</p>

<p>You were talking about "out of staters", so I was talking about out of staters too.</p>

<p>"Out-of-state students by comparison pay a max of "only" $29,000. Many of these qualify for financial aid, others for academic scholarships offered by UNC, lowering the cost of attendance even further."</p>

<p>Yeah, and Duke's fin aid is 20k more than UNC's. What's 29 + 20? 49, which is 4k more than 45 (Duke's cost).</p>

<p>Thanks for proving my point.</p>

<p>If you still don't get it:
Duke's cost - Duke's financial aid = real cost
45,000 - 28,532 = $16,468 (avg cost to attend Duke)</p>

<p>UNC's out of state cost - UNC's fin aid = real cost
29,000 - 9,100 = $19,900 (avg out of state cost to attend UNC)</p>

<p>Do OOS students even get that much fin aid at UNC?</p>

<p>As for in-state students, you said $12k max? I don't think so:
College</a> Search - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - UNC, - Cost & Financial Aid</p>

<p>5,340 + 7,960 + 1,000 + 1,200 + 550 = 16,050
Looks like they add up to 16k to me. So with 9k fin aid, one saves about $9,500 by going to UNC over Duke. Is it worth $38,000 to go to a much more prestigious school that isn't plagued with overpopulation found in public schools? I think so.</p>

<p>you can't just take averages and say you will automatically pay less at duke than unc, randombetch.</p>

<p>that said, i didn't apply to unc, so i can't speak for what i would be paying at unc, but i pay less at duke than i would have at the public oos schools i was accepted at thanks to the great financial aid here. however, jkterrapin, as i think i said in my post on the unc thread and as most people are saying here, you really should just visit both schools. if you like both, then apply to both and see what happens (especially with the cost - maybe if you like both schools equally, the financial aid will make the choice easy). good luck! :)</p>