<p>Hi everybody. I have narrowed down my choices to these two, and the deadline's coming up in about a week. For a premed unsure about his major, and receiving no money for either although rice is cheaper right off the bat, how do they compare? I realize this is a very general question, but that is so you can post anything and everything relevant to the question! Thanks a lot!</p>
<p>My S was down to the same 2 schools. He visited both during Owl Days and Blue Devil days. To his surprise the decision was very easy. He just felt like he clicked with the prospective Duke students and made loads of friends instantly. At Rice, he just didn’t feel like he fit in with the personality of the students he met there. Although he said they were very friendly it just wasn’t the same. He fell in love with Duke and can’t wait until August!</p>
<p>BTW, my S is a big tennis player - are you tennisboi? He was happy to see that Duke has a strong club tennis program.</p>
<p>Frankly if you are equally comfortable attending either school, I would go to Duke for the wealth of opportunities it offers. I mean as much as I hate to say it, if both schools are a good fit, it makes sense to attend the more prestigious one. Which in this case is Duke.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t discount Rice right off the bat. There are a few things you should consider:</p>
<p>1) How committed are you to going into medicine? Do you think you’ll want to do research? If yes, then Rice has an edge over Duke in certain areas with Texas medical center and MD Anderson close by. But Duke is no slouch when it comes to research either. </p>
<p>2) How much debt will you take on for Duke vs. Rice? If you are going to borrow a lot for undergrad and then brought another 1-200K for med school, you may not be in the best financial shape going into residency/fellowship. Though if you only borrowed up to the debt cap at Duke it’s I think ~20-25K over 4 years. No clue about Rice. If you are not going to borrow then it’s all down to how much your parents are willing to pay. </p>
<p>3) Would TX residency help you come med school time (if you don’t have it already)? TX has some of the cheapest med schools in the nation (~15K tuition/year) and also some of the best (UT Southwestern, Baylor). How likely are you to go there? Now consider your college choices because TX schools are required to take 80-90% in-state. On the other hand, if you want to go to Duke Med, then go to Duke. </p>
<p>4) Surroundings: do you like bigger cities? If so, Houston is better than Durham. If not, Duke probably has a better social scene in and of itself. </p>
<p>5) Do you like college basketball? Reason is obvious…</p>
<p>6)Do you think you’ll do equally well academically and extracurricularly at both places?</p>
<p>Duke has a medical center on campus…and it’s one of the best in the world. And Duke is the “research triangle,” and I don’t see how Rice tops that. look it up if you don’t know what it means. They’re both pretty good schools, like the social setting and academics are still great. They are the schools who have the “work hard, play hard” mentality. go to rice since its cheaper, imo.</p>
<p>If you change your mind from premed like the majority of college students, you will be a lot happier knowing that you chose a school that is as well respected in the business world as Duke is. Rice is certainly on par with Duke for premed but not much else in my humble opinion. You will have to revolve your job search around Texas as very few NYC/DC/SF firms recruit there.</p>
<p>djking99: I think I have a pretty good idea of what I’m talking about. Notice I said “in certain areas” Rice has an edge over Duke but that Duke is no slouch either. While Duke alone pulls in $355 million in NIH funded research per year and Rice only pulls in $14 million, Rice students also have access to research at Baylor College of Medicine, UT MD Anderson Cancer Center, and UT HSC Houston all of which combines for over $460 million in NIH funding which is one of the largest mechanisms by which basic biomedical science research is funded in the United States. </p>
<p>Furthermore, MD Anderson is the best comprehensive cancer center in the United States if not the world and while Duke’s comprehensive cancer center is good, it’s no MD Anderson or Sloan-Kettering. Additionally Baylor College of Medicine has traditionally been known for their excellent molecular biology, genetics, and neuroscience programs which are probably on par or better than their counterparts at Duke. </p>
<p>Finally, I’ll just say that unless you are doing biotech, research triangle doesn’t really mean a lot for research, especially in biomedical sciences research. And at least from my personal experience, doing research at a lab at NCSU or UNC-CH is not a common thing for Duke students. </p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, Duke is very strong as a research university in its own right with powerhouse programs such as BME and genetics and almost 700 separate NIH grants but as a Rice student, you’ll get research on the same scale, quantity, and quality at Rice with all the nearby Texas Medical Center (the largest medical center in the world) institutions (1000 NIH grants) available to you.</p>
<p>yeah so after reading SBR’s comments, you pretty much can’t go wrong with either one. They both have A LOT of opportunities-you just have to make use of them. only then will you be “standing out in the crowd”. Since Rice is cheaper, go to Rice dude. Since you’re pre-med a top 20 school is good enough for top medical schools. You just have to make use of the opportunities given to you.</p>
<p>Having attended Rice as a freshman and now attending Duke (transferred for the environmental sciences program), I feel that both schools are among the best in the country for premeds. SBR has said it well. Although Rice doesn’t have it’s own medical school, it is adjacent to the world’s largest medical center, which provides unparalleled research and volunteering opportunities for undergrads, especially at prestigious institutions like MD Anderson, Baylor College of Medicine, Texas Childrens, etc. Rice recently opened a new research center in the Texas Medical Center called the Bioscience Research Collaborative: [BioScience</a> Research Collaborative](<a href=“http://brc.rice.edu/home/]BioScience”>http://brc.rice.edu/home/). I did research there, and it was one of the nicest research facilities I’ve worked at. However, the research and volunteering opportunities at Duke Med for undergrads are also numerous.</p>
<p>Socially, they are quite different though- Rice has no Greek scene, so that eliminates some of the shallowness, “cliquiness”, and “preppy” attitudes that are present at Duke . And this is coming from someone who joined a fraternity at Duke. But there are plenty of students at Duke who don’t conform to that stereotype. </p>
<p>Don’t stress over which has the “better” premed program; they both offer world-class education in the sciences. Choose the school where you feel you can flourish and succeed it. Rice is half the size of Duke (approx. 3600 undergrads vs. Duke’s 6800 undergrads), so that’s something to keep in mind. Class sizes are only slightly larger at Duke; the difference in class sizes is negligible in my opinion. You’ll have large and small classes at both universities. I also suggest you check out Rice’s course catalog: courses.rice.edu.</p>
<p>Good luck! You can’t go wrong.</p>
<p>@tennisboi, you might like Rice better. First, for research, the medical area, block after block of hospitals, is literary across the street from Rice and you should be able to find multiple research opportunities even during the school year. Rice being a smaller school will give you a closer interaction with professors. The students at Rice are one of the happiest student bodies among college students, year after year. The administration works hard to achieve that from the free laundry, housekeeping cleaning of private bathrooms in dorm rooms to free subway pass and free access to many cultural centers and museums in Houston. Oh yes,Houston is a cosmopolitan city, full of energy, and all the hallmarks of a lively city with opera, ballet, theaters, museums, symphony, and has the second highest number of fortune 400 companies headquartered there, and the Houston-Sugarland area has a very large Indian population. Rice village, next to the school, is an open space large shopping mall. Duke is full of cliques. Large part of student body consists of students who did not get in their first/second/third/fourth choice (did I miss any ivy?) but by the end of freshman year they are resolved and love Duke as students in any school loves the college they end, perception of the typical Duke student is that of a rich, white, Northeastern. Durham just has one of everything. Athletics and greek scene. Regardless, just read about both schools and go where it is a better fit for you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seriously? Not to start a flame war here but could you maybe be a little more biased? </p>
<p>The point here is to present balanced pictures of both schools while highlighting their strengths, not to pointlessly and baselessly bash one school…</p>
<p>^I don’t think that’s a fair description of Duke at all (Ana1 post). I don’t know how you’d know so much about the Duke social scene considering you did/do not attend Duke. I didn’t find Duke full of cliques and unwelcoming at all - while there are certainly groups and people naturally form these, they’re not cliques where nobody else is invited. People in the Greek system are friends with independents, people in a varsity sport and friends with others, etc. I find most Duke students very socially adept and welcoming to all others - it’s a real community feel in my mind. I’m sure Rice with it’s residential college system is also very good in this regard and I have nothing negative to say about Rice. </p>
<p>It’s also hard to say Duke is full of people where it was their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice considering 40% of the class if from early decision. Thus, by definition nearly half of student expressed to the admissions committee it was their first choice and were willing to not compare financial aid packages. Even if only 1/3 of RD applicants had Duke as their first choice, that still puts it at 60% of the total student body had Duke as their first choice. And it doesn’t really matter anyways. Once you get there (as you said), you develop a loyalty and strong affinity to the university. And Duke is LESS Northeastern, rich, and white than most Ivy League schoools. While it’s certainly more Northeastern than southern schools, I find Duke is one of the most geographically diverse schools in the country. Top 5 states represented? California, North Carolina, Texas, Florida, and New York. That’s a lot of regions of the country. </p>
<p>It’s true that perhaps Rice might be a better fit for you; that’s perfectly fine. But avoiding Duke because somebody who hasn’t attended it thinks it cliquish and the perception of being northeastern and white shouldn’t be the reasons. Rice has a huge percentage Texans, so I could say avoid Rice if you don’t like Texans…but that would sound silly. I think Rice gives a more LAC-like feel while still offering ample research opportunities, while Duke perhaps feels like a larger university although class sizes are similar. I think Duke’s school spirit is unmatched and students are very loyal to the alma mater. And, yeah, Duke’s club tennis team is really fun and great - won club tennis nationals a few years ago, defeating all big public schools en route, Texas, Wisconsin, UCLA, etc. I’d choose based on fit and where you think you’d be happier. </p>
<p>If you want sports and think that will enrich your experience as well as provide a strong connection to the university for the rest of your life, Duke might be a better choice. If you prefer the residential college system, then Rice might be a better choice. I don’t think there’s much difference in the realm of pre-med preparedness and research opportunities. Also, speaking of state residency that SBR is talking about, it seemed to me like 99% of individuals kept the state residency that they went to high school in. You don’t suddenly become a resident of the state you attend college in unless you make the effort to do so - I didn’t know of anybody that did that at Duke as I guess there’s no much incentive, but seemed like everybody who applied to med school was the resident of the same state that they were when they applied to college. I guess it’s possible to change states if you want though and establish an address, pay taxes, etc…Not sure the rules med schools have around that. You know people that did that SBR? Wouldn’t be a bad idea if the state you’re attending college in has better med schools than your original state of residency. I mean, UNC med is also good. I know somebody who did that to get his 5th year of tuition in-state in California since he was in an architecture program. Had to establish residency immediately and then was finally “in state” after 4 years to qualify.</p>
<p>I can’t offer too much help since I’m still in high school but I visited both schools recently and I strongly recommend you do that, and if you are still undecided, go back if you can. The experiences I had on each campus as a prospective student totally decided it for me. One school just felt like ‘me’ and the other, while a fantastic and amazing school, just didn’t – from the tour guide to the people walking around on campus to what the school was emphasizing for the prospective students, each was very different even though “on paper” they both have a lot of the same great things. I thought both student bodies (what I saw of them) were diverse BUT also thought they were each very different from one another. Hope that helps!</p>
<p>Ana1 should really be taken off the Duke boards. I have never seen a more insolent poster. An absolute embarrassment to the college confidential community.</p>
<p>@bluedog “It’s also hard to say Duke is full of people where it was their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice considering 40% of the class if from early decision.”</p>
<p>From the NYT table, Crossadmits with Duke: H-97, P-91, Y-94, S-92, M-92</p>
<p>As for the party scene, numerous student reviews but just selecting from the princeton review:"Undergrads’ fervor for Blue Devils sports, on the other hand, can be boundless; sports, “especially basketball, are a huge deal here,” and undergrads “will paint themselves completely blue and wait in line on the sidewalk in K-ville for three days to jump up and down in Cameron Indoor Stadium.” Greek life “plays a big role in the social scene here,”</p>
<p>Is Duke clique? A simple search in all websites there are reviews written by Duke students admitting that. If it was not an issue, it would not be mentioned.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/886175-duke-clique-y.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/886175-duke-clique-y.html</a></p>
<p>As how I know so much, I did extensive research when my child applied to more than 20 schools, (yes I know too many), did pre-application visits, blue devil days, read with religiosity all the brochures, emails that the school send us, and read all college books and websites, talked with students at the school and alumni.</p>
<p>
That assumes that Duke shares a large overlap with those colleges, which is probably not the case. For example, I only applied to Yale of those five, and it was lower on my list than either my top choice (Chicago, to which I was admitted), Hopkins, or Duke.</p>
<p>Duke does not release its CIRP/HERI survey, but Cornell reports that it was the first choice for ~70% of students and second choice for another 18%. USC reports that it’s first choice for 65% and second choice for another 25%. I’d imagine Duke is fairly similar.</p>
<p>Last year, when we declined schools, most of them had online surveys asking about the school chosen to enroll, 1st and 2nd choice and a long drop down menu with the reasons. The school he enrolled also had a survey on whether the financial aid package was fair, what the other two top choices considered were, as well as the packages received. I suspect schools share the info with the yield management consulting companies.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’d like to point out that the vast majority of Duke students (or indeed the student population at any college) do not write online reviews of their experiences. Just like reviews for any product or service online, the reviewer population tends to be an extremely self-selected pool consisting of those whose views skew dramatically to the positive or negative end of the spectrum. I doubt you’d receive a balanced picture of what Duke is like through online reviews. </p>
<p>As for doing lots of “research” the only real credible sources of information that are not propaganda or outdated that you list are the visits and talking with current students of which by nature you as a parent and as a visitor can only get a vague snapshot of what Duke is like. When it comes down to it, your perspectives and experiences will be extremely limited. My parents also did the whole college tour thing, read the brochures, looked at websites, talked to Duke people, etc. Hell I’m extremely close to my parents and talked with them several times a week for the 4 years I was in college and told them a lot of what’s going on in my life as a college student and at the end of 4 years even they didn’t have that great a sense of what Duke is like to be able to accurately describe it to their friends or their kids. But apparently you feel that you do…</p>
<p>The NY Times table is so outdated its not even funny. If you want a more accurate representation of cross admit data check out parchment. It tracks student preferences in real time, and claims 95% statistical accuracy.</p>
<p>Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Whether the students were dissatisfied or not, a specific issue was mentioned in different forums, in different years. I do not see people stating that UChicago is cliquy.</p>
<p>As for how accurate parchment, who honestly believes that 24% crossadmits choose it over Harvard? 30% Stanford; 19% Yale; 31% Princeton; and 37% MIT!! LOC 95. Has there been any material change between HYPSM and Duke to justify such a change?</p>