We definitely have had all high stats kids accepted ( eventually) at Michigan from our local HS. By high stats I mean 3.85 or above UW GPA, top 5 percent of class ( which reflects a challenging ciriculum) and a 34-36 on the ACT. Michigan know our OOS well. We have many alumni in our area and many are big donors. We typically send between 15-20 ( out of a class of 450) to U MICH every year. So yes for those kids with those stats it’s a target. Btw. So is Northwestern where we have the same sort of success. ( Northwesten definitely favors locals)
maya, that definitely happens with high schools that are considered an established pipeline and comfort in knowing that the yield is protected.
Compared to LACs, yes, Mich is more about the numbers. @Alexandre (I have been very familiar with Mich my whole life.)
i know people are saying it is tougher now. And my Ss school did not see too much of a “dip” last year (less applications/less accepted). But those accepted, again, all over 3.9/33/2200! A “match” doesnt mean safety…or a for sure acceptance. If you use your own naviance, you can tell it it is a Match or reach better than the CDS. Agree w @maya54
HRSMom, LACs have extremely random admissions. They even admit that half the time, they don’t even know why they admit students. But compared to its peers (Cal, CMU, Cornell, Northwestern, Penn, Texas-Austin, UCLA, UIUC, UNC, UVa etc…), Michigan is reasonably holistic.
“i know people are saying it is tougher now.”
It is not what people are saying HRSMom. Michigan’s admit rate has dropped from 50% in 2010 to 25% last year. The average graduating HS cumulative GPA has increased from 3.73 to 3.85. The mid 50% SAT range has increased from 1230-1440 in 2010 to 1300-1500 last year and the mid 50% ACT range has increased from 27-31 in 2010 to 30-34 last year. Those are obviously not significant leaps, but they are noteworthy…especially the plummeting acceptance rate.
“If you use your own naviance, you can tell it it is a Match or reach better than the CDS”
True enough. The kids at the schools I know of (admittedly without ties to Michigan) are forced to approach Michigan as a reach. They acceptance rates, even for 4.0 students with high test scores has dropped to well under 33%. I am sure that there are some schools with strong ties to Michigan, where students that are admitted will enroll at a high rate, and therefore, will be given extra consideration. High stat students at those schools can indeed approach Michigan as a target…but it is not the norm, and it is irresponsible to extend that courtesy to all applicants. Those schools are the exception, not the rule. Most high stat OOS applicants should approach Michigan as a reach…unless they attend a high school that has strong ties to the University.
I understand that the statistical standards have increased dramatically, but not really for OOS. These kids have always needed higher stats to be accepted. That is how UMich keeps the high average acceptance stats while still admitting in state kids with lower stats (significantly).
I’m interested to see what happens this year for sure. Last year the dip was not evident at our school, but it was a 10% smaller class. So we’ll see.
My point is that if you are sitting with a 4.0 and a 34-36, I’d say match. You might be rejected. But I’d put your odds above 50-50ish if you visited and have any personality at all.
I do not think UMich is nearly as holistic as say Cornell, where you not only have to choose your major up front, but must show them where you fit into it.
We are all agreed that it is not a safety through, and it is getting more and more competitive as they get more and more OOS apps with 4.0 and 34/2200+.
“ACT range has increased from 27-31 in 2010 to 30-34 last year. Those are obviously not significant leaps, but they are noteworthy…”
I would says that the ACT leap is quite significant!
How can it be not significant? Around 13% students receive ACT 27 or above, but only 5% get 30 or above. Only 38.% of the students that were above the 25th percentile score for admission are now in the range. Don’t be fooled by the 10% change in ACT composite score. It is not in a linear scale in terms of numbers of students.
What do you guys think of this scenario? Small, public OOS high school has 110 UM applications on Naviance with 41 acceptances. avg accepted GPA is 94.3 and average SAT is 2130. An applicant applies early with 95.7 GPA and 2330 SATs. Assume strong on the subjectives - i.e. ECs, essays and recommendations. Would this be a match for him? Low match?
I’m saying match.
CHD, are the 110 applicants for 43 acceptances all from last year, or are they from a longer number of years…say since 2005 or 2010? If from last year alone, I agree with HRSMom, your school would clearly have a strong relationship with Michigan and target would seem a likely scenario. If not, can you break it down? Say 2013, 2014 and 2015? That would give us a better indication.
@tarun5629 I used to work in Admissions at Michigan. As many users have stated, the difference between OOS and IS admissions is primarily due to a difference in conversion. IS students are most likely to matriculate. As an OOS student, you need to showcase strong interest to set yourself apart. Let the school know you would matriculate.
@alexandre @HRSmom I used to work with Admissions at Michigan. You are correct, Michigan uses holistic review and absolutely takes the qualitative elements of the application into account. With thousands of applicants who have similar transcripts and test scores, they utilize those elements to differentiate amongst similarly qualified applicants. Also, it is a misnomer that OOS students need higher stats to get admitted. It’s far more complicated than that.
But it must be the case that the average stats for OOS are higher? Or no?
@HRSMom Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Students are judged by the academic environment in which they reside. If a student attends a private school in a wealthy area of metro Detroit, he/she is judged based on that school’s curriculum, resources offered, etc. If a student attends a small, lower-income school in Northern Michigan, he/she may graduate at the top of the class with a 3.7 and no APs (school may not offer APs). Contextually, that student from Northern Michigan is performing well. Overall, Michigan receives more applications of this sort from in-state vs. OOS students, so the OOS stats tend to be higher. Matriculation is also a factor. The admissions process is very complex. And yes, no matter how you shake it, Michigan admissions gets more competitive each year.
Thanks for all the feedback.
@Alexandre - the 110 applicants are since 2004. Last year 10 applied, 4 got in and 2 enrolled, the year before 20 applied, 9 got in and 5 enrolled and the year before that 13 applied, 6 got in and 3 enrolled.
Thanks for the breakdown CHD. I can imagine the students who apply are typically high stat students (93%+ average, 2100+ SAT/32 ACT)The strong yield (50%) will serve your school well. In that case, the OOS applicant in question (with a 96% average and 2330 on the SAT) could be admitted in the EA stage but just as likely could be deferred. If deferred, with an email reiterating interest in the January, I would say the OOS applicant has a good chance of getting in RD. Target either way.
Michigan often passes on students with outstanding stats because they believe (often correctly) these students are treating Michigan as a safety, and are not going to attend if they are accepted. This is especially true for OOS students, because they don’t get the drastic tuition decrease. Indicating serious interest in the school will drastically increase chances for such OOS applicants.
Thanks again for the advice everyone
“Michigan often passes on students with outstanding stats because they believe (often correctly) these students are treating Michigan as a safety, and are not going to attend if they are accepted.”
That is correct smartypants, although I do not think there are many applicants so delusional as to assume that Michigan is a safety these days. That was the case a few years back, but the last couple of years have been sobering to say the least.
That being said, most universities, even fellow elites, will reject high-state applicants they feel will not enroll if admitted. Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale are less likely to do so, as are ED applicants to elite universities. But RD and EA high-stat applicants to non-HYPSM universities will generally be approached with caution.
@Alexandre I agree that fewer people think of UMich as a safety these days, but it is probably still a nontrivial number, since it’ll take a few years before Michigan’s reputation is impacted by its severe drop in acceptance rate last year. Some of my friends who hadn’t done as much research on the acceptance rate still thought it was in the 30s or 40s, because it was only a couple of years ago.
Also, I imagine that very few people will apply to HYPSMetc. universities who don’t want to go there, so those schools don’t really have that problem.