Early Decision Dilemma

Parents Forum
1

<p>(Posted in admissions forum as well)
My son was one of the high school seniors who received the email that RPI erroneously sent out in September. He was congratuated for being a Rensselaer medal winner. Medal winners receive a guaranteed $15,000 per year scholarship. We were excited. We had not considered RPI before, although my son is a natural at Physics. He had not received the medal RPI retracted their email. We then received another email, apologizing and saying that if my son was accepted to RPI and decided to attend, he would be guaranteed the same $15,000 per year "leadership" scholarship. WE took a look at RPI and my son liked it, but is unsure if he wants to attend a "science" school. He thinks he wants a broader curriculum. We did a little more research and found the STS major, which is much closer to liberal arts, but wiith a science bent. RPI is a great school, with amazing facilities. My son is a bit leary of the "nerd" factor and the lack of females...but he is seriously considering RPI and does intend to apply. He doesn't really have a first choice, He's just not sure what he wants. But he does think that he "could" be happy there.Then I saw on this site that the "leadership scholarship" is only if you apply early decision. We missed the first early decision deadline, but there is a 2nd one for January 1.</p>

<p>MY son has very good SAT's 780 verbal and 670 math, but his grades are not stellar. He doesn't do homework, and only has a 2.9 GPA. Still, princteon review's college search predicts RPI as a match school and RPI contacts him frequently by email. My son intends to apply and I think he will be accepted. </p>

<p>RPI is about $8,000 per year. Even with the $15,000 per year scholarship, It may not be do-able. I'd like to see what other schools will offer and take the best package.
Im worried that if we apply early decision, we have spoiled our opportunity to see what other schools will give and if if we apply regular decision, we will lose the $15,000 and get less aid and that other schools won't come through.
Then we'll be in a real mess.</p>

<p>WHAT TO DO????</p>

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<p>I think if they made him the offer they did, that it would apply ED or regular decision, given the circumstances. Just call and clarity</p>

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<p>Would he have to maintain a certain gpa to keep that scholarship? Since he's carrying only a 2.9 in h.s. and isn't wild about attending RPI, isn't wild about science, if the scholarship requires a gpa of 3.0 or higher, I don't think applying ED for it would be worth the risk.</p>

<p>The fact that you're unsure that RPI would be affordable even with that scholarship adds to my thoughts that he'd be better off applying RD elsewhere.</p>

<p>My perspective is that of a mom whose son had a 760 cr, 780 m, and a gpa similar to your son's. Despite the fact that calculus was his easiest subject, my S has no interest in being a science major, and I suspect that your S may be similar. </p>

<p>My S is a happy freshman at a tier 2 LAC that also gave merit aid. From what I can tell from his reports, he's also enjoying his academics and is studying as well as making some nice friends and being active in campus organizations.</p>

<p>Males are in demand at LACs. Males with high CR scores especially are appreciated by LACs, which require a lot of writing (even for science majors).</p>

<p>I suggest that you and your S take a look at some LACs -- merit aid offering tier 2 ones or ones in the bottom half for him to have the best chances of the kind of financial support that you would like.</p>

<p>I grew up about 15 miles away from RPI. The nearby small city is the pits.</p>

<p>I think they made the offer that they did because they blew it by erroneously offering the scholarship. They may, however, be willing to give it to students who got the offer erroneously, but are serious enough about RPI to apply ED, indicating its their first choice. From what you've posted, RPI is not at all your S's first choice.</p>

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<p>Get more information about the offer. E-mails are often not complete. It does not mention your son has to apply early decision--is that another mistake? Is it for 4 years automatically, or does he have to qualify each year for it? Northstarmom points out something very important if you need that money. A 3.0 in college is not a given. And unlikely for a kid who is not getting it in highschool. RPI is not an easy school.</p>

<p>Also you are wise in noting that $15K could still leave a pretty big gap between the cost and what you are willing and able to pay. I can tell you that my older kids did get a number of scholarships that barely put a dent in the total bill. And that was when the tuition was not as expensive. Though $15k is a nice scholarship even for these days, it barely covers a third of the cost of some of these private schools. Also. if RPI interests him, he should research it and visit it. Definitely if he want to apply binding ED. This is not a school with universal appeal, nor is it one that makes it easy for kids to excel. It would be a shame if he goes there just for the money which still makes it barely affordable and then is unhappy there and not doing well. It would also limit his options. Better he goes to a school that is more of a fit for him from the onset. </p>

<p>I am having a similar issue with my son. He, too got info about an attractive scholarship from a tech school. He too has reasonably high SATs but is not truly focused or motivated to go into the maths and sciences at this point. I think LACs would be better for him. But he is intrigued with this "offering" and wanted to apply for it. It is not ED, but it still made me uneasy because he is ignoring what suits him for the flash of that money, and the flattery that the mailing gave him. It served a good purpose in that it jumpstarted the application process which was stalled at that time, but I worry that something may pan out that is not suitable for him.</p>

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<p>I re read my message and I realized that I said RPI is $8000 per year, I left off a number...it's $48,000 per year!
My son is actually interested in majoriing in physics at a liberal arts school. his best grades are consistently in the science and math courses. He almost got a D in honors english this semester, because he didn't wite the required papers and /or didn't turn them in on time. I'm tying to get him to think about why he does better in science than in english. Why he does some work and not other work. He claims he's just lazy...but I think it's something about the assignments. He LOVES to read and learn, he just doesn't like to parrot back what he's read.
He is applying to all match or safety schools
Ursinus
Drexel
Because they seem to be recruiting him, no application fees, priority applications, quick decisions and eligibilty for merit aid
We are also looking at Syracuse, Ithaca, Northeastern, St Michael's in VT, McGill, Clark U and the College of New Jersey (a reach, but inexpensive) and of course our state U...Univwersity of Mass at Amherst. He will probably wind up there, because it's only $17,000 aper year...but he is so prejudiced against it. He feels it's second rate, which is ridiculous, because it's a great school
This is just so difficult
He has no idea what he wants to study ot if he wants big/small rural of city.
I'm just guessing and trying to do a mix</p>

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<p>RPI's email did say that he had to apply early decision, I just missed it when I read it the first time. the $15,000 is guaranteed for all 4 years, with no minimum GPA. It's a nice offer. but I will need more.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
My son is actually interested in majoriing in physics at a liberal arts school. his best grades are consistently in the science and math courses.

[/quote]
Your son may be seen as very desirable at a smaller LAC because of the math/science strength -- he fills a gap for them.

[/quote]

[quote]
He almost got a D in honors english this semester, because he didn't wite the required papers and /or didn't turn them in on time. I'm tying to get him to think about why he does better in science than in english. Why he does some work and not other work. He claims he's just lazy...but I think it's something about the assignments. He LOVES to read and learn, he just doesn't like to parrot back what he's read.

[/quote]
My son kept his grades up in high school, but other than that the above paragraph could describe my son exactly. My son ended up with very inconsistent performance at a LAC for similar reasons -- he had an A in chemistry but C's & D's in some other courses, often more because he slacked off on the work than anything else.</p>

<p>I hate to say it, but as the parent of a similar kid, I think you have to think long and hard about how much you are willing to invest for private education for a kid who self-describes as "lazy". My son is now age 24 - he dropped out of college after his sophomore year and worked for 3 years, then went back to school at one of our 2nd-tier in-state publics, and will graduate this spring probably with honors. He is anything but lazy, but even though he is very intellectual and loves to read, he is not really the academic type and I don't think he found his passion until he was in the work world and had a sense of involvement. He sends me some of the papers he has written at his current college - for classes he says he likes -- and I still see him slacking off and trying to get away with throwing stuff together at the last minute. The state pubic he now attends is a school that he would have thought beneath his consideration when he was first applying to colleges -- but he will get a degree and that college has actually opened the door to two wonderful work & internship opportunities for him, so I think years from now he will look back at his time at the state U. as being far more significant for him than the time at the LAC.</p>

<p>As to RPI -- no one should ever apply ED unless they are 100% sure that they are applying to the school they want to attend. I don't even think your son is a the 50% mark -- so its just an offer he will have to pass up. </p>

<p>Your son needs to take a long and hard -- and honest -- look at exactly how "lazy" he really is --and whether or not things are likely to change in college. If not, then one advantage of attending a college that is "second rate" is that it is possible for a bright kid like your son (or mine) to get away with second-rate work when they feel like it. The so called "second rate" schools are not always such a bad place to be for a student whose performance is inconsistent.</p>

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<p>Your S and mine have a lot in common. S almost didn't graduate from h.s. because he owed science lab reports and assignments in other classes. He ended up handing in everything the day that final grades were due.</p>

<p>My S took a gap year, living at home and volunteering for Americorps, a fulltime commitment. He loves volunteering, and took his job seriously. That experience appeared to teach him that the real world expects things like reports to be done on time. </p>

<p>Due to S's grade problems second semester of senior year, H and I are not helping to pay for S's first year of college, which means that S has had to take out some loans (the size of which would be prohibitive if he were to do this each year of college). Based on our experiences with our older S -- another very bright kid with high scores and low grades -- who flunked out of college where he had merit aid that covered just about everything -- H and I warned younger S that if he ran into grade problems as a senior, he'd have to prove himself by getting decent grades on his own dime his first year in college.</p>

<p>That incentive along with his gap year seems to have helped S take college seriously and be working at his potential. He had always loved school and appreciated his teachers. He just hadn't believed in working up to what he was capable of doing.</p>

<p>If your S is as similar to mine as he seems to be, an engineering school is not the type of place that would make him happiest. My S literally has been blossoming at a LAC. </p>

<p>He hadn't gotten around to applying to colleges as a h.s. senior even though he had gotten a fly in to one top college and had gotten similar offers from others. Despite his having virtually grown up on a college campus, and been in summer programs in various colleges, plus having toured several others, he had no idea then what kind of college he wanted or what he might major in. The gap year helped him learn more about himself and what kind of atmosphere made him happy.</p>

<p>A lesson I learned after doing most of the work to find a good match for older S (who loved his college even though he didn't hit the books there) was that students may appreciate their colleges more if they, not their parents, have been the ones doing most of the work of finding a good match. </p>

<p>"because they seem to be recruiting him, no application fees, priority applications, quick decisions and eligibilty for merit aid"</p>

<p>Applying to places where he could get merit aid seems like a good decision. Applying because of no app fees, priority applications, quick decisions, doesn't seem like as good a decision. IMO, your S needs to think about what he wants out of his college education and experiences, and then find colleges that match his wants and offer merit aid. Unless he's very easy going and flexible, he needs to come to some conclusions about big/small/rural/urban, etc</p>

<p>In general, younger S is very flexible, but when I would send him off to summer programs on different college campuses, I was surprised at the things that turned him off from considering attending those colleges. Turnoffs even included things like having to walk up lots of hills to get to the dining hall! No surprise that the college he's attending is flat. :)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Turnoffs even included things like having to walk up lots of hills to get to the dining hall!

[/quote]
Well, its easy for us parents to think of that as a trivial concern -- we're not the ones huffing our way up those hills!</p>

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<p>Calmom,
I agree. The hills are a big reason why I was happy that I didn't have to go to Cornell, gorgeous as it is.
More reason for the OP's S to take a much closer look at the places where he's applying and to consider more than whether they're trying to recruit him and are giving him free applications.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
WE took a look at RPI and my son liked it, but is unsure if he wants to attend a "science" school.

[/quote]

[quote]
Even with the $15,000 per year scholarship, It may not be do-able.

[/quote]

[quote]
He has no idea what he wants to study ot if he wants big/small rural of city.

[/quote]
This is simply not a kid who should apply ED to RPI. Nor can I see any reason he should apply ED to any place.</p>

<p>The only reason I see for his applying ED to RPI is fear. Fear that he might not get the $15,000. But the $15,000 is not adequate anyway; so what have you gained if he gets it? Probably a nightmare of worry about how to afford it and what he might have missed by not seeing what other schools might have done.</p>

<p>And MomEl, I am not criticizing any family that is tempted to go ED out of fear. So so many of us have been there. Worrying that our kid might give up the "ED boost." There is a never-ending debate about how much of an ED boost there actually is. But I don't know that even those who are convinced of such a boost would suggest it for a student who has so many decisions to make about what he wants in a college or who needs to compare financial aid packages.</p>

<p>I don't think you've mentioned whether need-based financial aid is possible for your family (apologies if I missed it in one of your posts). If it is, you really will want to wait to see all of the packages. And if merit aid is what you are seeking, I think your son can apply RD or EA or rolling to a number of schools where he might get some of that - he will have to pick these carefully, as his CR SAT is stellar, and his M SAT is good but his GPA is not so stellar. Still his combined SAT and his gender could work well for merit $ at the right mix of LACs, which is what he seems to want anyway.</p>

<p>Example - one parent on this board has a son whose "selective slacker" profile is not unlike your son's (doesn't do the work which doesn't interest him, so some hs grades really a problem; but super high/lopsided SAT scores) - this kid got merit aid to, as I recall, more than one school. He is at one of them right now and loving it.</p>

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<p>I've unfortunately had more experience than I ever wanted with slacker sons, and I can tell you RPI would not be a school for them. It's a tough school. I also agree with the poster who feels that there is a fear factor involved. This whole college process is a difficult one, and there is always that fear of failure. I notice that the OP's son likes those apps that invite you and make it easy. Yep, a familiar pattern, and one that my current college kid likes to. Ursinus made it on his list solely because of their come hither campaign. Now in his case, it actually may be a good fit, stats wise and the type of college it is, a small LAC, but that was not the appeal for him; it was the ease of applying.</p>

<p>I agree that ED is not a wise move to make in this case. At least not until he checks out the school VERY THOROUGHLY. That means visiting, talking to students, sitting in classes and spending a few days there. He may want to do the same at Ursinus, as it would give him a good contrast between a tech oriented school and LAC. </p>

<p>Yes, a $15K scholarship is great, but if unless this young man can get moving on his academics, he won't last a year at a school like RPI, and that'll be a much larger loss than gain, especially in terms of emotional turmoil for all concerned. Believe me, I've lived it.</p>

<p>Yes, UMass as the state school might fit the budget, but in my experience this type of kid is going to have a hard time in a large school that is not right on top of him. More personal attention is definitely needed. For a budget, a school like Mary Washington, York College, Flagler are more the right size. </p>

<p>I am in a similar situation as you are with a kid in the same sort of situation. I have not found much out there in terms of low cost small, good quality schools. He has applied to Ursinus, some smaller state schools, some Catholic schools, but since we will not qualify for much if any financial aid, it's going to be tough to make budget. The ideal schools are out of price range. $15K in grant money is hard to beat. In my experience, even in schools who want that high SAT, male, math/science interest, it is rare to get more than $5K in actual money, and when the stick price is nearly 10 times the amount, that is not enough. It would also be difficult to beat RPI name recognition and reputation at that price. But you are not getting a nurturing LAC here.</p>

<p>If anyone has some lower cost LAC suggestions, I too am open to them.</p>

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<p>If he's a selective slacker he might still do better at an RPI type school with a big emphasis on science. However most of these schools still do have distribution requirements. He might also like schools with different schedules. He might look at Worcester Polytechnic Institute - which runs on quarters and students typically take three courses at a time. It has the same disadvantages as RPI, gritty industrial city, not enough girls, techie. More engineering than pure science.</p>

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<p>Mathmom, i don't see where WPI would be any improvement over RPI. It has the same disadvantages as you point out, and it isn't offering an $15K in money.</p>

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<p>Then do not apply ED. If DS gets accepted, he is must attend. In order to be able to compare finaid packages, apply only to Early ACTION schools, rolling admissions, or regular decision schools.</p>

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<p>Drexel has 10 week terms that can be a killer-especially if one is a procrastinator. It is easy to get behind even in the first or second week and then have a lot of trouble catching up. It is quite intense.</p>

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<p>I agree. I would put Drexel right up there with RPI and Worchester tech.</p>

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<p>Also, another consideration...for merit aid at these schools (other than RPI's ED offer which I believe should NOT be done by this OP), there probably IS a minimum GPA for retention of the funds. This would be an important criteria for the OP to check. If this student is not completing work in HS where there can be supports in place and at least monitoring by teachers and family, what will this student do in an independent living situation where any supports need to be accessed by the STUDENT (if they so choose)? I am not at all familiar with the community college situation in MA, but perhaps a year of at a community college could be considered. CC's tend to be smaller, don't have a ton of students in the classes, and some actually do have study skills centers to help students. And the costs are modest.</p>

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<p>My son doesn't need study skills. He doesn't do homework because he thinks it's stupid and he doesn't learn anything by doing it. But in my son's school, homework is graded, so he is penalized for not doing it. </p>

<p>He needs discipline and he needs to learn to follow the rules.
A perfect example of my son's attitude and ability was his performance in geometry class. He got a D the second semester becasue he failed to turn in his homework. He then took the mid term exam and got the highest grade in the class.<br>
He needs to do things that he doesn't WANT to do. He needs to learn to follow the rules or he won't survive...and actually, that's kind of sad. But as I keep telling him, it's the way of the world. </p>

<p>Community college would be a total waste of time. He is way too smart for that...He would be able to get by doing NO work at all. The better approach would to make him do menial labor or physical labor for a year... , so that he could see what the world is like without a college education</p>

<p>My hope is that he finds something to engage him. a place where he can learn by doing rather than doing busy work.
He might do well in a place where he listens in class reads mpertinent materials and then takes a test. He just won't do problem after problem in math and he won't write papers that he doesn't want to write.</p>

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<p>I did not do homework in college either but I managed to get very good GPA for a tough science/engineering undergraduate. I often got top mark for my tests. I found homework to be a waste of time. The only homework that I would do was math. So your son is not alone.</p>