<p>I'm with SusieQ. We're not talking so much about grades here but about real learning, which happens when one critiques work, whether it's one's own or someone else's, as well as when one's work is being critiqued. (Of course, for me, this focuses on writing.) And if you want to talk about the "real world," then it applies even more clearly. Even when I write my narrative evals of my students' work, my husband reads them so I have a second set of eyes looking for repetitive phrases and errors. That's just sensible. I do the same for him in his professional writing. (My not charging him for the service doesn't make it cheating.) His trusted colleagues do it, too. </p>
<p>Why is this shocking? Are we so competitive that we cannot take advantage of each other's strengths and learn from each other? Isn't there a point to being in school with other high quality students? Isn't this part of that point?</p>
<p>Be shocked if it suits you, but you're missing an important source of educational possibilities.</p>
<p>I haven't had time to read every post in this very interesting topic, so this may have already been mentioned.</p>
<p>Duke addressed the issue of essay help in their application last year when they asked the applicants to answer the following short answer essay:</p>
<p>"We recognize that all good writers seek feedback, advice, or editing before sending off an essay. When you have completed your essay, please tell us whose advice you sought for help, the advice he/she provided, and whether you incorporated his/her suggestions."</p>
<p>I feel differently about college application essays. Those are not a learning exercise but a competitive process. I agree college application essays should be more hands off than school essays.</p>
<p>Of course, easier said than done some times.</p>
<p>Originaloog: as an academic (writing teacher), I am surprised by your views. All colleges have writing centers where students are encouraged to get help on their papers before they hand them in. At one school I taught at, we had to mandate that students use the writing center at least three times during the semester. Also, the use of peer review/editing is totally commonplace at just about all colleges. I often insist that students who are struggling in my classes visit a tutor regularly for extra help. I also make comments/suggestions on ungraded working drafts, before the graded final draft.</p>
<p>I don't see any problem with a parent, or any other knowledgeable person, giving the same kind of peer reading/suggestions that are built into the contemporary college writing process.</p>
<p>azephyr - your comment is just one more illustration why a concerned parents' eyes might be valuable. I bet that I would be more likely to spot plagiarism if it occured than would a teacher unfamiliar with my kid's abilities and writing "voice". My kids were very aware of which teachers didn't read the homework from a very young age -- it's fairly obvious to a kid when papers are returned with no correction or commentary on blatant errrors or jokes. By "joke" I mean when a kid turns an essay with a paragraph in the middle that is total nonsense or a series of repetitive phrases -- to the kid, it is a big "joke" when something like that gets by the teacher. My son one turned the same paper in twice to a 9th grade teacher, on successive months for different assignments, and got A's on each. My daughter had a terrible geometry teacher -- she wouldn't do the assigned homework but would just fill out pages with random diagrams of angles and triangles and numbers, and turn it it as homework - for A's. She once took a test and got 37% and it was an A+ - that's how the curve came out. It was NOT a hard test -- I was very burned up. My daughter also took to cutting that class regularly - they'd "catch" her in the library instead - and when the school principal called once about the cutting, I told him not to bother calling me if it was Mr. Bad's class, because as far as I was concerned she was better off studying elsewhere. The principal didn't argue with me. </p>
<p>I want to say that my kids also have had excellent teachers -- my son's AP English teacher was wonderful, my daughter has some terrific teachers this year. But this is the reality of public school. At the high school level, it seems that the best teachers end up teaching the honors and AP classes, so things get better junior & senior years, but we definitely ran into some teachers-from-hell at the 9th and 10th grade levels. The other school staff knows, but they can't get rid of these idiots -- I don't think high school principals get too much choice over which teachers the district assigns to their schools. So definitely in the world of public school, I think there is a lot of parental responsibility.</p>