English at Cal?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>I'm planning on majoring in English and I'd love to hear from some current or former Cal English majors regarding their overall experience with the program. I found a ranking of English departments from US News and Cal was ranked #1!! However, it was ranking graduate programs and it was published in 1995. I'm going to try to transfer in as a junior next year. Is the English department still as good as it used to be? Do undergrads get the full experience or is it overcrowded?</p>

<p>I'd also like to minor or double major in Spanish. Any comments about the Spanish department? How hard is it to get a senior year abroad through EAP?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>I don't have personal experience with it, but regarding its rankings, yes, Cal is generally ranked #1, usually tied with Harvard and Yale.</p>

<p>I'd say its program is as good as it was then. Here's the US News ranking (part of it):</p>

<p><a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdhum/brief/eglrank_brief.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdhum/brief/eglrank_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

3

<p>I don't know if it's as good as it used to be, since I'm only here now. I don't know what "full experience" you're looking for, either.</p>

<p>I am a junior transfer (spring admit), going into my senior year, so if you have questions that are more about the program and less about its relative prestige, I can offer some insight.</p>

4

<p>Cal's English Dept., as many of its other depts, is tops. But you need to take professors, not classes, for the simple reason that one learns more from professors who inspire than from topics that inspire (esp. if professors are dull). Find out from people who have been in the department for awhile which professors are the best. Survey 10 people on their recommendations. Do two other things: 1) consider picking an era or a specialization and focus on it a bit by taking a few classes in it as well as history related to it: for example, 19th century American Lit. 2) Make sure you work on your writing so as to leave Cal a sound, if not fantastic, writer. Take writing classes if you have to do so. Good luck.</p>

5

<p>I think berkeley english undergrad is probably one of the most intellectually demanding humanities majors, right up there with philosophy. But does it provide a great "experience"? I'm not so sure it does - classes are, let's face it, above optimal size, the most prestigious profs hardly if at all teach, the grads probably don't like teaching, the department probably does not have as good of a per capita success rate at getting its undergrads into yale and harvard english as yale and harvard english have at getting their undergrads into berkeley english...</p>

6

<p>hmmm....</p>

<p>Thats what I was concerned about Dobby.... NOT the prestige element but the reality of class size and teacher availability for undergrads.</p>

<p>I don't mind it being demanding. I want it to be demanding. But I don't want it to be cold and impersonal.</p>

<p>How many of the upper division English classes for undergrads are crowded? I thought that once you got to a certain level the class size dropped dramatically?</p>

<p>And for UNDECIDED, tell me what you think of the department so far. Have you been inspired? Do you feel like you are getting what you wanted? Are you becoming a better writer?</p>

<p>Some people say the Cal English program is "mind blowing", can anyone back that up?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

7

<p>Upper-div classes are generally going to be smaller, even in large programs like English (large in that many major in it, but there are many more professors in English than in other departments). Here's the general class-size breakdown for Berkeley:</p>

<p>2-9 - 34%
10-19 - 27%
20-29 - 15%
30-39 - 6%
40-49 - 4%
50-99 - 8%
100+ - 6%</p>

<p>For some perspective, here's Stanford's class-size breakdown:</p>

<p>2-9 - 38%
10-19 - 35%
20-29 - 8%
30-39 - 5%
40-49 - 4%
50-99 - 6%
100+ - 4%</p>

<p>So, not very different. Of course, these are in general, but I doubt it'd be very far off for English.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
the department probably does not have as good of a per capita success rate at getting its undergrads into yale and harvard english as yale and harvard english have at getting their undergrads into berkeley english...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is a big duh. Of course it wouldn't. And frankly, it's owing more than anything not to the top echelon of Cal students, but the fact that Cal also lets in a cadre of undergrad students who frankly would never get into Harvard and Yale undergrad or grad or Berkeley for grad school. On the other hand, Harvard and Yale don't let in many, if any, students who would not get into Berkeley undergrad. A greater percentage of H/Y students would have a better shot at having the excellence to get into Berkeley grad school.</p>

<p>Dobby, your post frankly doesn't give the poster useful information. Having attended English classes at both Berkeley and Harvard, I can tell you the spottiness of quality that you allude to and the inaccessibility of certain teachers is a situation faced by many research institutions. The way for the OP to get around it, as I said in my post, is to work very actively to find professors who are good and who are accessible. OP: Do this by finding 10 people who will tell which professors to avoid and which ones to seek after. If you can, find someone who can advise you how to structure your study program to optimize your learning. And for god's sake, learn how to write and speak (not that you don't know already, but these are skills that everyone always needs to improve). At Cal, I would try a rhetoric course of two as well.</p>

<p>I would give this advice to a Harvard undergrad as well. I remember the first English class I walked into at Harvard, taught by a grad student. I heard three people comment more or less what a useless class it turned out to be.</p>

<p>Kyledavid's post points out the truth of comparison apart from the relentless ranting: the fact is upper division class sizes aren't an issue.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Some people say the Cal English program is "mind blowing", can anyone back that up?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How can someone back that up? Take movies for instance. Some people think American Beauty was mind-blowing and others find it frivolous and useless. Berkeley has first-rate excellence within its English Dept. Its concentration of first-rate excellence is probably on a par with other depts considered first-rate excellent among research universities. That's all you need to know. The rest is up to you; make it work for you. </p>

<p>I'll tell you one thing, though; if you adopt a really negative attitude about it, you will hurt yourself. You might find, for instance, that you move on to a top 5 or even a top 20 English grad dept that is known for having some really stellar faculty, and you might find you are impressed by one professor in particular at your new institution. And you would probably find that he/she would be run-of-the-mill good at Berkeley and may have even studied at Berkeley. And then it would hit you: you really undervalued the opportunities you had at Berkeley. And in the end, that hurt you, not Berkeley. I know this because something quite similar happened to me. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
This is a big duh. Of course it wouldn't. And frankly, it's owing more than anything not to the top echelon of Cal students, but the fact that Cal also lets in a cadre of undergrad students who frankly would never get into Harvard and Yale undergrad or grad or Berkeley for grad school. On the other hand, Harvard and Yale don't let in many, if any, students who would not get into Berkeley undergrad. A greater percentage of H/Y students would have a better shot at having the excellence to get into Berkeley grad school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Alright - so we agree, if grad education in english in one of the country's top three programs (according to USNews) is one's goal, one is better off not going to Berkeley for undergrad in english.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Dobby, your post frankly doesn't give the poster useful information.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where is it written that my posts have to provide "useful information"? Besides, the OP seems to have thought it useful, did you see the reply?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Having attended English classes at both Berkeley and Harvard, I can tell you the spottiness of quality that you allude to and the inaccessibility of certain teachers is a situation faced by many research institutions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, that's pretty much the truth. However, where is professor innaccessibility the greatest problem? How often do any of Berkeley's top english profs invite undergrads to dinner? I hear Harold Bloom and colleages over at Yale do it quite frequently.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The way for the OP to get around it, as I said in my post, is to work very actively to find professors who are good and who are accessible.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, but good accesssible professors seem to be in limited suppy at Berkeley english. Sure, the faculty may be pretty large - but how often do the bigwings teach classes? How often do they hold office hours? Do they hold office hours AT ALL? Just looking over the Fall course listings and previous listings, it doesn't seem like the departments top faculty are being heavily recruited for teaching. To an undergrad, whats the real use of having all these famous (in academia!) professors if s/he doesn't have any contact with them? Heck, even the grad students probably get short changed because since the program is pretty large, they probably don't get all the attention they want and resent undergrads who manage to get close to top profs.</p>

<p>some concrete advise for eddyx77, if young college student:: </p>

<ol>
<li>go to english class, do not ask question in lecture (studies show most profs don't like these students,) wait for office hours. make a point to go to office hours the first time they are held.</li>
<li>discuss readings with prof, ask about historical circumstances, discuss the merits of different schools of literary thought</li>
<li>ask what school they belong to - don't be afraid to discuss your experience as a college student - talk about politics and points of view on campus, read their books/articles</li>
<li>invite prof for coffee (should be at least 2 months after initial contact), the second semester you know them invite to lunch</li>
<li>do NOT stop talking to prof after semester is over - biggest mistake undergrads make</li>
<li>develop a mutually satisfying friendship and be happy with your academic life</li>
<li>repeat for 2-3 other professors</li>
</ol>

10

<p>
[quote]
Where is it written that my posts have to provide "useful information"? Besides, the OP seems to have thought it useful, did you see the reply?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ah, so your defense is that you come here to provide useless information? Last time I checked the raison d'etre of places like CC is to provide useful, practical, up-to-date insights on collegiate issues. Apparently, though, some would prefer to use it as a forum for their own obtuse needs to bellyache.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Alright - so we agree, if grad education in english in one of the country's top three programs (according to USNews) is one's goal, one is better off not going to Berkeley for undergrad in english.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, that wasn't my point and I disagree vehemently; it is quite the opposite. My point is the average Berkeley undergrad isn't of the same caliber as the average Harvard or Yale undergrad and so the chances of them distinguishing himself/herself well enough on an absolute scale to get into the likes of Harvard, Yale, or Berkeley as a grad student is less than that of the average Harvard or Yale student. Having said that, those in the upper echelon at Berkeley who take an active role in their own education (and don't burn energy by complaining or whining) can use it as a platform to get into Harvard, Yale, or Berkeley as a graduate student.</p>

<p>Think about what you are saying in terms of the person who posted the query. He (?) is a junior college transfer. You are asking him to rate his potential experience in the same category as if he were going to Harvard or Yale. With all due respect, his choices probably never included Harvard or Yale on the undergrad level; I would imagine that's why he went to junior college for a couple of years, though that's an assumption. Now he has the chance to go and learn from people in one of the world's top English programs and you are (see below; the Harold Bloom comment was just rich) telling him to compare his experience to something he wouldn't have a shot at. What's even more ridiculous about it is, he actually -- because of his affiliation with Berkeley and if he does really well -- might have a shot at going to a top-notch grad program in English if he wants. Certainly better than if he had gone to 99% of the other colleges which he had a reasonable shot at entering as a junior college transfer. And that's the beauty of Berkeley. Get real. What really distinguishes great students at places like Harvard and Yale, since you are holding those up as some kind of gold standard, is that they don't succumb to b***hing and whining, even when others around them do, and they move on and seize opportunities in their environment.</p>

<p>I would wholeheartedly recommend going to Berkeley to study English for someone who has the talent, savvy, and attitude to relish and gain the most from the experience. And actually, I would recommend it to anyone who has the drive, savvy, and attitude to gain the most from it, even if he/she feels his/her talent is not on par.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Yes, but good accesssible professors seem to be in limited suppy at Berkeley english. Sure, the faculty may be pretty large - but how often do the bigwings teach classes? How often do they hold office hours? Do they hold office hours AT ALL? Just looking over the Fall course listings and previous listings, it doesn't seem like the departments top faculty are being heavily recruited for teaching. To an undergrad, whats the real use of having all these famous (in academia!) professors if s/he doesn't have any contact with them? Heck, even the grad students probably get short changed because since the program is pretty large, they probably don't get all the attention they want and resent undergrads who manage to get close to top profs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I keep hearing that whining. And I don't just hear at places like Berkeley, though Berkeley students seem to specialize in it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
some concrete advise for eddyx77, if young college student::

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's the spirit, Dobby. I knew you had it in you to recognize that the real purpose of CC should be to give concrete advice.</p>

<p>And the advice is very good. And should be followed in addition to the advice I gave.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I hear Harold Bloom and colleages over at Yale do it quite frequently.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, and a friend of mine who would go to Bloom's dinners when she was an undergrad told me after spending an hour or two at across the table, he (or maybe it was one of his distinguished faculty guests, though I think it was Bloom himself) finally paid attention to her and spoke to her saying, "My goodness, dear, you have quite beautiful eyes." He wanted to hit on her. But as I recall the story, he wasn't even that eloquent in this case. </p>

<p>OP: I wouldn't overestimate the quality of that as an offering, given what you can achieve if you follow the advice Dobby laid out in steps 1-7 above. And the fact is at Yale a lot of students don't go out of their way to have those kinds of experiences. The difference is that they don't necessarily need to go out of their way as much to have those kinds of experiences. But if they do, they can -- and at Berkeley too.</p>

<p>Remember as a student you have a tremendous advantage with the right professors (ones who aren't antisocial): some professors are at university because they like to teach. In particular they like to teach young people. They like young people. They are often open to flattery. And many of them are also shy and would welcome being approached by an outgoing student. That's why Dobby's advice is so spot on, in steps 1-7; I just think you should ignore pretty much everything else he said and you should do yourself a favor and stay away from people who spend a lot time complaining when you are at Cal. [yeah, I know this is bound to get a response, "but there's a lot to complain about at Cal." Boo hoo]</p>

<p>Good luck. Now I've got work to do.</p>

11

<p>And back to the topic…</p>

<p>Undecided,</p>

<p>Can you elaborate a little more on your experiences in the Berkeley English program?
- What are its strengths and weaknesses?
- As a transfer student, did you have a difficult time getting to know your professors?
- What sorts of research opportunities are available for English majors? (Especially for transfer students who have only a limited time frame in which to work)
- What kinds of questions do you approach professors with in their office hours?
(Particularly if you follow dobby’s advice and show up in their office on the first day)
- Since essay grading is so arbitrary, is it difficult to maintain a high GPA?
- Do you feel that the program is adequately preparing you for grad school?</p>

12

<p>I don't know where Doby is getting these ideas about all the big shots at Berkeley not actually teaching or holding office ours. I've taken several classes with Robert Hass, who was twice named the poet laureate of the united states, has been awarded the MacArthur "Genius" grant, and writes a column for the washington post. He was a great, funny and accessible teacher. I studied Beowulf under Nicholas Howe, who was maybe the most respected Beowulf scholar in america. I read Joyce in a class taught by John Bishop, who wrote the introduction to the Norton edition of Finnegans Wake. Almost every professor I studied under at Cal was one of the leading scholars in his or her field, and they ALL had office hours and were very accessible. Many of the professors at Cal came from other, more well known schools like princeton, yale, stanford and Harvard. I had a professor who used to teach at Harvard and he mentioned several times that Berkeley english students were much more intellectually curious then their Harvard counterparts. The point is that the Cal english department is great...if you choose to make it great and find the right teachers and classes. It can also suck if you want it to, but that can be said about just about everything.</p>

13

<p>Wow! Thanks kyledavid, bedhead and blondeonblonde. </p>

<p>Bedhead: Yes, I'm a male and yes, Yale and Harvard were never on my short list of schools...haha. I DID end up going to community college because I had no shot at getting into a good school out of High School. My high school grades are sub-par, not because I tried to succeed and failed, but rather because I deliberately sabotaged my grades in a very passive aggressive move against my parents. Stupid, I know, but what can I say? </p>

<p>However, my College grades are great and I think I do have a shot at Berkeley since I am in-state and they don't look at high school transcripts. I know Berkeley has a great reputation but what really interests me is the learning experience. What you and blondeonblonde have impressed upon me is that everything is possible there, and thats all that I need to know. If its possible than I can make it happen. </p>

<p>Now the only really difficult decision would be if I got into Cal AND Pomona, which is REALLY a long shot for me. I'm still going to try though.</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

<p>PS: I love that album! "Sad eyed lady...of the low lands..."</p>

14

<p>Personally, I've loved my time here, and I am very sad to be leaving at the end of this year. Had I started at Berkeley, there is so much more I could've done. But that's gone and past.</p>

<p>My experience with the English department has been fantastic. Classes are a mixed bag in terms of size -- for example, my upper division Chaucer class last semester had 70 students, the upper div Shakespeare had over 150, and my junior seminar had 12. I really hate dealing with the department office, as it's prone to the same foibles any government-funded division is, but I love the professors. </p>

<p>In Chaucer, the professor still made time for everyone who wanted to come to office hours and the class was still run in dialogue. Shakespeare was too large to run in such a fashion, but Professor Adelman is a talented lecturer who manages to engage the class despite being unable to interact one-on-one with students during class-time -- and she still made time for people during office hours. My junior seminar was fantastic; the interaction between the professor and the class was very conversational, and it allowed us to take the course in a direction that allowed him to help us explore different facets of the topic. </p>

<p>The professors are extremely accessible. Professor Miller, who ran Chaucer, is an amazing teacher (though some consider her too disorganized), and she loves her students. Her office hours often ran far over because she likes to just sit and chat with students, whether it's about scholarship or just daily life. With my seminar's professor, I got the chance to sit and rebound ideas for my final paper; the result is a paper I'm extremely proud of, one that could easily turn into my writing sample for grad school applications, perhaps even be turned into something publishable in and of its own right.</p>

<p>You will find, as with any public school, that there are limitations to its excellence. With public money, you will only have 2 GSIs to grade a 150+ person English class; the feedback you will receive obviously reflects this. However, the professors make an effort to overcome these kinds of limitations. They are more than willing to work with you -- you need only ask.</p>

<p>I had no problem being a transfer student. I've gotten to know my professors very well -- I'm taking a graduate course with Professor Miller this semester, and I intend to pick her brain for help with my grad school application process. My seminar professor is very willing to help guide me with independent research on the topic my final paper covered. </p>

<p>Research opportunities are a mixed bag. They aren't very obvious and you're going to have to be extremely proactive about it. I don't personally know anything about this because I spent my first semester at Berkeley occupied with other things. However, I know the resources are there and, again, I know the professors are very happy to help where they can.</p>

<p>Essay grading is ALWAYS arbitrary. Here, you will find you may only have 2 essays by which your grade is measured. I have never had a problem with the grading (well, I didn't like the GSIs in Shakespeare very much, but I understand they were frazzled and overextended -- but it's always a good idea to be extra watchful with GSIs simply because they're scholars-in-training and their reactions to that status vary wildly), but it's extremely important to understand that you need to have an excellent grasp of what the professor is asking for. If this involves visiting their office hours the day they announce the first paper, so be it. It's a great ice breaker, and one students tend to be more comfortable with as it's a lot easier to approach a professional with questions about their profession and your part in it than in a conversational, non-business-like "Hey, how ya doin'?" type fashion.</p>

<p>With minimal effort outside of class, I got a 3.6 for the semester. I'm sure if I had actually read any of the plays in Shakespeare my B would've been an A. :P</p>

<p>My posts here may not reflect it, but even after one semester at Berkeley I feel that I'm a much stronger writer of the analytical essay. Take whatever feedback you get on your essays seriously, but not TOO seriously. I get reamed consistently for using "he," "she," "he" or "she" interchangably, and the impersonal "their" -- every professor has his own preference/her own preference/his or her own preference/their own preference (you get the idea).</p>

<p>I definitely feel prepared for grad school. The professors here, more than at my CC or at UCSC, really encourage you to find your own path in the literature and to ask novel questions about what you're reading. This is not necessarily true of the core requirements (45A/B/C and Shakespeare), but definitely more true as you approach specialized topics in other upper division courses. And again, I stress that they're usually very available to work with you in office hours on any questions you might have and help you develop your own voice. In Professor Miller's class, there were several times where a student would ask a question that she had no answer to. In those cases, she freely admitted it, encouraged the student to do independent research on the topic, and encouraged more questions. In the times when the student returned with the results of their sleuthing, she happily incorporated it into the class -- and encouraged more questions.</p>

<p>If you're going to visit a professor in their office hours on the first day, the easiest way to approach it is as an interview. This person is going to be your professor for the next 15 weeks, and you're hoping to learn something from him. From the syllabus, are you clear on what you're going to learn? Do you understand what's expected of you? Do you see how it will connect with your future studies, with your plans for grad school? Any of those are great lead-ins. "I am interested in studying medieval literature in a PhD program, but I'm not entirely sure how to incorporate 19th century American lit into my base of knowledge..." or "You said that there were three papers due for this class. If there is one topic I'm particularly interested in exploring, is it possible for me to modify the topic or work with you on revisions of my initial paper?" </p>

<p>Two important things to remember: 1) Don't ask dumb questions (by which I mean those that are easily answered by the syllabus or what the professor said in class) and 2) Don't be afraid to ask dumb questions (such as how the professor got started in the field or other questions that aren't directly related to the course material). You'll get the hang of it, especially if you're good at reading people and can figure out that each professor approaches office hours differently.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
No, that wasn't my point and I disagree vehemently; it is quite the opposite. My point is the average Berkeley undergrad isn't of the same caliber as the average Harvard or Yale undergrad and so the chances of them distinguishing himself/herself well enough on an absolute scale to get into the likes of Harvard, Yale, or Berkeley as a grad student is less than that of the average Harvard or Yale student. Having said that, those in the upper echelon at Berkeley who take an active role in their own education (and don't burn energy by complaining or whining) can use it as a platform to get into Harvard, Yale, or Berkeley as a graduate student.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Look all I'm saying is that people have a tendency to fulfill whatever societal expectations arise from the situation said people find themselves in. harvard and yale undergrads in english have been expected to advance the study of english literature for centuries. berkeley undergrads AS A WHOLE will likely continue to lag, if only because the expectation that they will become top scholars in english is not deeply rooted. but not only do individuals conform to situations, situations conform to individuals! at the admissions committee table, people will essentially think "oh, she's from yale english, there's no way she's not ready, yale is the best at preparing undergrads for grad study." but thats besides the point.</p>

<p>eddyx77: </p>

<p>im lost, what is it that you want to do? do you want to go to grad school in english? if thats the case, then follow those 7 steps and additional pointers:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>start emailing profs during welcome week - maybe u can meet with them about how the classes ull be taking will be run, talk about ur previous interest in the subject. unlike a freshman, u dont have a lot of time in which to decide on a major. what drew u to english? i highly recommend that before you decide which profs/classes to take u take a look at what kind of people those profs are on <a href="http://www.ratemyprofessor.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.ratemyprofessor.com&lt;/a> pickaprof.com is also good - you should try to steer clear of the ones, no matter how famous, who have almost all =( faces next to their names</p></li>
<li><p>what do you want out of your education? this has got to be clear from day one to you. do you want to get a phd in english? phd study in english is a long process, 8-9 years is typical and very expensive. are you up to that?</p></li>
<li><p>if you can't see yourself in school for that long, what are your other options? you could try law school....but then you probably won't have much to talk to the profs about. this entire discussion about prof accessibility is only important as far as grad school goes, really. if you know get a prof at berkeley to like you, s/he may very well virtually guarantee your admission into the program of your choice if s/he knows someone in that program...a lot of berkeley profs know people, so its just a matter of getting profs to like you</p></li>
<li><p>don't just talk to the profs you have classes with. talk to other profs too, maybe even some emiritus prof. HOWEVER, never ever limit yourself to older profs - they are oftentimes the most famous and the most rewarding to talk to but they may pass away before your berkeley career is up...and then if your goal was a letter of rec from that one genius you'll be pretty screwed over. similarly, don't limit yourself to young profs because they may leave the university at a moments notice. your best bet is a tenured professor in the 40-65 age range.</p></li>
<li><p>too many students nowdays feel that they NEED to go to grad school in order to make a decent living. don't fall into that mind trap. plenty of people do well moniteraly without grad school, but understand that if your goal is not grad school there is no real point in worrying about level of contact with profs. the classes will be fine, you will learn a lot you didn't know and you will probably enjoy the experience. but really, you should instead be working already or doing some internship at some corporation or something.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>sorry if some of what i say seems harsh, but i feel people should know that berkeley has a despicable way of stunting many undergrads' intellectual growth. don't let it happen to you.</p>

16

<p>Thank you sooooo much Undecided. I plan on bugging you again when you get more into the grad school application process. :)</p>

17

<p>I'm hoping to have an article written for the Career Center on the whole grad school application process (especially for transfers), so maybe that means I'll have answers if you do. XD</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
Look all I'm saying is that people have a tendency to fulfill whatever societal expectations arise from the situation said people find themselves in.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And that's why I am verbally getting in your face. All you are doing is perpetuating low "societal" expectations (except when you actually gave the good advice), grousing about some academic nirvana in which you suppose the Ivy League resides (which is a naive and b*****it assumption, by the way) and essentially saying to give up, that the fight is lost for someone attending Berkeley.</p>

<p>As I said, the OP is effin' lucky to have an option like Berkeley. I think he himself would agree apparently. </p>

<p>If you've figured out this point about societal expectations, then you also know that you shouldn't let the people around you and their limitations or strengths determine what you choose to focus on and strive for. You should work to be the one to define your own potential, not abdicate that responsibility to others or to a "Berkeley just doesn't coddle my fine a**" kind of fatalism.</p>

<p>Berkeley is not Harvard or Yale. Its students on the undergraduate level, on average, are below the average for Harvard and Yale. Deal with it. The school is bigger and harder to get your arms around than other smaller schools. Deal with it. </p>

<p>If you can't deal with it, I suggest you take your b<strong><em>ing and bellyaching somewhere else. I want to know why the h</em></strong> you didn't go to Harvard or Yale since you are so regretful that Berkeley's undergrad doesn't live up the standard that you PRESUME for those other schools. Is it because it was too expensive to do so? Perhaps you didn't get in? Either way I'd say you have a choice: be unhappy and b**** about the fact that you aren't getting what your princely a<strong>, s</strong>* doesn't smell behind deserves or deal with the fact that you didn't make the cut financially or through the application process and go on and make Berkeley work for you.</p>

<p>The beauty of Berkeley is that its excellence is strong enough that people who go there and focus on making it work for them, many of them can seemlessly fit into whatever academic or other milieu they move into later. These kinds of people don't lose time wishing they were having drinks with Harold Bloom. Trust me. (As evidenced for instance through the rock star Stanford professor friend I was just talking to who did his undergrad and grad there and went on to become a MacArthur Fellow. And through his Stanford professor girlfriend who also went to Berkeley.) They had talent, they worked hard and Berkeley made things possible that they couldn't have done in many, many places if not in fact anywhere else.</p>

<p>What did you turn down to come to Berkeley? Was it better? I suggest you re-open the application process and go there, if you can't grow more positive.</p>

<p>My only complaint about Cal is some of its students. It is fair to criticize an institution and there are certainly things that can be improved. But there are way too many Cal students who b**** an inordinately large amount of time. I think they think they are somehow rising above it all. I know: I used to be one. I suggest you stop being one because the person it hurts is you. If you weren't "good" enough to get into Harvard or Yale, is that Berkeley's problem? If you couldn't afford to go to a "better" school, you'd better take that up with your parents or god. If you felt misled by Berkeley into turning down other programs that you now think might have been better for you, march your butt over to their admissions offices and march yourself out of Berkeley. </p>

<p>These would all be affirmative steps that might ease your mood and leave Berkeley to those who are grateful for it as an option and who relish the education they get there.</p>

<p>And believe it or not, I have procrastinated a lot here out of a spirit of trying to help you out. You are an adult now; you have chosen your own path within the limitations that life, unfair life, and perhaps your own high school record have given you. Deal with it.</p>

<p>Th-th-that's all....</p>

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<p>My brother is an English major there and he loves it. Writing comes pretty naturally for him, but he has gotten an A+ on English finals and stuff. That aside, they do challenge you in every way possible. Definitely consider it.</p>

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<p>Bedhead, that is one of the best posts I've seen on this site. You nailed it.</p>