Ethnicity in College.

<p>I'm Indian (from India not American Indian), and after consulting many people about college admissions/acceptance, they told me that I have a lesser chance getting to into a high ranked college than a person with a Native American/African American/Spanish ethnicity.</p>

<p>I hate the fact that most Asians including me have a lesser chance yet we are more QUALIFIED to getting in a high ranked college than a person who fits the specification above and has <2 GPA and a 1200 out of 2400 SAT score. </p>

<p>That is saying that if you're stupid and waste 4 years of high school cutting class, doing drugs, and being a retard, you have a higher chance of being accepted to a top 50 college than an Asian with 2000+ SAT score and a 3.8 GPA with loads of extracirricular. </p>

<p>Wow.</p>

<p>Not sure I would agree that ANY person with a gpa <2 and an SAT of 1200 would have a chance at ANY top 50 US college…</p>

<p>This topic is a dead horse that has been beated to death on CC but since I have some time on my hands: </p>

<p>1_ Asian students are OVEREPRESENTED at top colleges, so on the whole you do not have a “lesser chance” of admissions viz a via the general population. You have a better chance. </p>

<p>2_ Top colleges ALWAYS look at more than SAT scores. They are not the only qualification that counts. Top schools practice holistic admissions, i.e., they look at the entire student package. Grades and test scores count, of course, but these schools are looking for more than that. </p>

<p>3_Black, Latino, and American Indian students DO get rejected from top schools, even those with high SAT scores and from prestigious private high schools. I’ve seen it happen. Being Black or Puerto Rican, e.g., is not an auto admit to Harvard or Yale no matter what “many people” have told you. And no minority parent I know has EVER told a kid applying to a top school, “Don’t worry about your grades. You’ll get in because you’re black,” or anything like that. That’s a myth. </p>

<p>4_No top college will admit ANY student, of whatever ethnicity, that they believe can’t do the work. So the idea that “if you’re stupid and waste 4 years of high school cutting class, doing drugs, and being a ■■■■■■, you have a higher chance of being accepted to a top 50 college than an Asian with 2000+ SAT score and a 3.8 GPA with loads of extracirricular” is manifestly false, woefully ignorant, totally without merit, and frankly, borders on racism.</p>

<p>Oh goody! Another “Asians are discriminated against” thread. It’s been at least a month since the last one died out, at about 4,000 posts, and that means it’s been kind of quiet around CC.</p>

<p>Okay, I’ll bite.</p>

<p>OP, can you point to a single specific example of anyone, of any race, with a <2.0 GPA and 1200 SAT who was admitted to a top 50 college?</p>

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<p>What? Do all African/Native/Latino-Americans get these scores???</p>

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<p>They all do this too???</p>

<p>Wow…</p>

<p>In case you weren’t aware… They also do this in India. Historically oppressed castes are given “reservation” (positive discrimination in education and jobs).</p>

<p>You should be rejected from college for sheer ignorance and racism. FYI, There are minorities that get rejected from ivies with 2100+ Sat scores, and nobody gets into a top school with a 2.0 gpa or less like you stated. Are you serious? Do you know anything about anything at all?</p>

<p>look at caltech,which doesn’t have affirmative action. All the kids there are white as ghosts and have poor posture. Also, there is practically nothing going on there. If all top schools were like that, no one would want to go to college.</p>

<p>I’m going to bite too… I REALLY don’t feel like doing what I SHOULD be doing. </p>

<p>"That is saying that if you’re stupid and waste 4 years of high school cutting class, doing drugs, and being a ■■■■■■, you have a higher chance of being accepted to a top 50 college than an Asian with 2000+ SAT score and a 3.8 GPA with loads of extracirricular. "</p>

<p>Can you post a link to any data to support this? </p>

<p>I’m going to leave out the “stupid” criteria, since I don’t think there is a univerally accepted definition. (<2 GPA and a 1200 out of 2400 SAT score?)</p>

<p>What percentage of black, Hispanic, or Native American 18 year olds who are ■■■■■■■■,<2 GPA and a 1200 out of 2400 SAT score, waste four years cutting class, and doing drugs get accepted to top fifty schools? </p>

<p>Or maybe we can start with what percentage of black, Hispanic, or Native American 18 year olds who are ■■■■■■■■,<2 GPA and a 1200 out of 2400 SAT score, waste four years cutting class, and doing drugs APPLY to top fifty schools? </p>

<p>Or maybe just what percentage of black, Hispanic, or Native American 18 year olds with <2 GPA and a 1200 out of 2400 SAT score apply to top fifty schools? </p>

<p>Or how about what percentage of black, Hispanic, or Native American 18 year olds with <2 GPA and a 1200 out of 2400 SAT score apply to college?</p>

<p>Or how about what percentage of black, Hispanic, or Native American 18 year olds apply to college?</p>

<p>“Asian students are OVEREPRESENTED at top colleges, so on the whole you do not have a “lesser chance” of admissions viz a via the general population. YOU HAVE A BETTER CHANCE.”</p>

<p>I do not understand this logic. So, Asians have easier time getting into top colleges?
Do you think Asian acceptance rate will be same or higher than URMs or Whites at top colleges?</p>

<p>If Asians have better chances at top colleges then URMS and Whites should identify themselves as Asians and GET INTO ASIAN POOLS.</p>

<p>“Black, Latino, and American Indian students DO get rejected from top schools, even those with high SAT scores and from prestigious private high schools.”</p>

<p>Let me ask you this question. Do you know any URM with 2300+, high SAT IIs and 3.9+ UWGPA who got rejected from every Ivy and Stanford, MIT?</p>

<p>Big apple daddy:</p>

<p>point 1 of your post is totally illogical.</p>

<p>If the top 50% of applicants are asians, but only 20% are accepted, then the individual asian kid does not have a better chance of getting in.</p>

<p>You seem to think that if asians make up 5% of the applicants, but earn 20% of the spots, that they have a better chance of getting in. Purely on merit, they might deserve 50% of the spots.</p>

<p>OK boys and girls. let’s try this again. </p>

<p>1__High SAT scores alone do not make you “qualified” at top schools. Those schools look for much more than that. Will the student fit in? Does he/she have any special artistic/athletic/leadership, or other talents? Is he/she intellectually curious? Has the applicant achieved at a high level in something outside academia? Has the applicant overcome significant socio-economic hurdles to achieve what they’ve achieved? etc, etc etc. You may not like those considerations but they’re not going away. Nor IMHO should they. All students, Asian and otherwise, will have to learn how to adjust to holistic admissions. </p>

<p>Schools do not look at the top 1000 kids with the highest SAT scores and just admit them. I suspect that a lot of Asian angst about this comes from Asian parents from places like China, Taiwan, India and Korea (among others) where tops scores are all that matter and then communicate that to their kids. It doesn’t happen that way here at the top schools. Perhaps people yearn for that sort of simplicity and transparency, but frankly it doesn’t happen much anywhere in life. </p>

<p>2__You can quibble about the percentage of Asian applicants vs the percentage of admits at any given school. But it doesn’t change the fact that ON THE WHOLE, there are far more Asian students, percentage wise, than their general numbers in the population at top schools. That doesn’t work for you? Well, then you’re back to the idea that “there should be more” because Asian kids’ “qualifications,” i.e. their test scores are so high. Refer to No. 1 above. </p>

<p>3__“If Asians have better chances at top colleges then URMS and Whites should identify themselves as Asians and GET INTO ASIAN POOLS” This is silly beyond ridiculous. Lying on one’s application is unethical and grounds for admissions being rescinded. </p>

<p>4__“Let me ask you this question. Do you know any URM with 2300+, high SAT IIs and 3.9+ UWGPA who got rejected from every Ivy and Stanford, MIT?” First off, I don’t know any high-achieving Black or Latino student foolish (or arrogant) enough to have applied “every Ivy, Stanford and MIT,” (though I’m sure some exist). That’s a really dumb application strategy. But I do know ones with high numbers who have been shut out of Ivy league schools. And I doubt that the few I know are the only ones like that. It is, after all, a big country. </p>

<p>To the OP: Ultimately I wish that every disaffected Asian kid who whines that some unqualified black kid “took their spot” at Yale or something would just grow up. You don’t HAVE a spot. No one does. And if you didn’t get in to that dream school, try considering the fact that no matter your 700+ SAT scores, you just didn’t have what it takes to stand out in crowd of very smart and talented kids of all types. So stop blaming the Black and Latino people and move on with your life.</p>

<p>"I hate the fact that most Asians including me have a lesser chance yet we are more QUALIFIED to getting in a high ranked college than a person who fits the specification above and has <2 GPA and a 1200 out of 2400 SAT score. </p>

<p>That is saying that if you’re stupid and waste 4 years of high school cutting class, doing drugs, and being a ■■■■■■, you have a higher chance of being accepted to a top 50 college than an Asian with 2000+ SAT score and a 3.8 GPA with loads of extracirricular."</p>

<p>Major ouch… </p>

<p>First of all, you make it seem like we ALL have those stats and act like ‘■■■■■■■’ and take drugs and blah blah blah…</p>

<p>I’m very happy to say that I’m hispanic (puerto rican) and have never tried a drug in my life and, although I still would like it higher, I currently have 3.7 gpa and am involved in several extra curriculars such as band, science club, robotics, etc. </p>

<p>I resent the fact that you assume we are all the same… And fyi, I bet the ivies have never received an application with such low stats, even URM’s…</p>

<p>Wait to go, by the way, you attempted to bash URM’s and instead made yourself look ignorant…</p>

<p>Oh, and I don’t appreciate the fact that you use the word ‘■■■■■■’ to insult anyone… You really shouldn’t use that word as an insult…</p>

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<p>Caltech is majority Asian. The school also looks at more than numbers. It is ranked in the Top 10 in the US News Rankings. And to top it all off, 98% of students return for their sophomore year.</p>

<p>But I guess it’s still a terrible place to be.</p>

<p>Having a higher GPA and test scores does not make you more “qualified.” Ever heard of holistic admissions? Personality matters, and you’re not making yourself look very good in that regard with this thread. And, who’s to say those “lesser qualified” students wouldn’t do as well or better than you given the same socioeconomic circumstances? Last but not least, not being a major dick = worth more than a 2400 SAT and 5.0 GPA. kthxbai</p>

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<p>There are five from my D’s HS in this year’s CalTech freshman class. All five are Asians from the Midwest.</p>

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<p>No, it isn’t, at least among undergraduates. Its [2010-2011</a> Common Data Set](<a href=“http://finance.caltech.edu/budget/cds2011%20FINAL%204_28_11.pdf]2010-2011”>http://finance.caltech.edu/budget/cds2011%20FINAL%204_28_11.pdf) says that 39% of its undergraduates self-identified as Asian (non-Hispanic). Even if you add the 6% Hispanic*, 1% with two or more races (non-Hispanic), and 2% unknown, that would add up to at most 48% Asian.</p>

<ul>
<li>In practice, few Hispanic persons are Asian.</li>
</ul>

<p>My main point was that Caltech isn’t filled with white kids, as Mr. Affirmative-Action was trying to claim.</p>

<p>Big Daddy:</p>

<p>You make some good points, but the issue is not as simple as you make it out to be. The end result of affirmative action is indeed reverse discrimination. Society has decided to accept that, but don’t expect the “over-represented” groups to be happy about it. For example, I have read that if admission was done just on the basis of test scores, that UC Berkeley would be all asian, indians, and jewish. Rightly or wrongly, society has decided that this is not an acceptable outcome. So when you say colleges look at applications “holistically”, in my opinion, in some cases, that is just an excuse to admit URMs. I say this because there is no reason to presume that the extracurricular of URMs are any better, or worse, than that of non-URMs. If it were truly holisitic, then the white kids would probably have just as good ECs, so they would still be admitted. So because URMs, for whatever reason, do not get high enough test scores to beat out “over-represented” groups, colleges have no choice but to expand the criteria to include more subjective criteria. I am not even saying this is wrong, but don’t ridicule the asian kid for not being happy about this. (although his 2.0 gpa comments are indeed silly). I fully agree that some holistic criteria are important—for example, a reknowned violinist, but just chanting the word “holistic” does not mean that the process has not become biased in favor of URMs. Society has agreed to accept the bias, but don’t pretend it doesn’t exist. Even african americans who post threads on this websight openly state that they realize that there scores are probably not good enough to get into a particular school, but then ask if perhaps they might nonetheless get into a particular school because they are a minority. Now, that being said, no fair minded person would object to a person from a poor socio-economic background being given a coveted spot, because he has climbed a much higher mountain, and has done almost as well as the person who had the easier mountain to climb. For example, while I am not rich, my son has been given advantages a poor kid has not, such as participating in the Duke TIP program, special math tutors, and the advantage of having two parents who have seven college degrees between them. What people do object to, however, is a MIDDLE CLASS URM being admitted to a school simply because the school needs more “diversity”----people of that particular ethnicity, at the expense of an asian kid, or a white kid, who actually may be MORE disadvantaged from a SOCIO-ECONOMIC standpoint than the african american or the hispanic. For example, should Barack Obama’s kids be given a preference over a poor white kid from a single parent home, simply because a school is searching for qualified african-americans ? My roomate at Michigan, 30 years ago, was African American, and his father owned a prosperous gas station. So I am so sure that he deserved extra help. Although I do believe in affirmative action, I do sometimes do a double take on this websight when I read about a kid who is #2 in his high school class, and is on every honor society imaginable, yet only got a 28 on his ACT. To me, this shows, that all the A grades that kid may have earned were not “truly” earned. My wife taught calculus at a white school, and she was under tremendous pressure not to give out bad grades, so the same may be true in a majority black school. And again, if the top 50% of the applicants are asian, and the school only admits 20% asian, that is discrimination. I understand that jews make up 3% of the US population, but earned 20% of the spots at Emory. If you cut that down to 10%, it is still discrimination, even though they are Over represented. The fact that the college searches through an URMs background to look for a reason to admit him over the asian IS discrimination, because since this is so subjective, you could easily do the reverse, and find some interesting EC that the asian has. On the other hand, I would not say that a person who gets a 34 ACT is “better” than a person who gets a 32 ACT, but it is my impression that the colleges are going much further, and admitting a kid with a 28 ACT over a kid with a 34 ACT. My son is 1/2 jewish, and I have had to warn him not to let people know he is jewish, to avoid being put into the “over”-represented pool of applicants. I think all americans should be concerned about that. Instead, on CC, I often see kids openly complaining that a school has too many asians, or too many jews (although they often say the school has too many “New Yorkers”). So in sum, yes, I believe in affirmative action, but it should, as an american, at least leave a bad taste in your mouth. Especially if you are an asian, and grew up in a poor family, and had your own great obstacles to overcome in life.</p>

<p>BigAppleDaddy is spouting the party line point by point, and each point is ridiculous.</p>

<p>“First of all, you make it seem like we ALL have those stats and act like ‘■■■■■■■’ and take drugs and blah blah blah…”</p>

<p>The OP didn’t do that, and you know it. The point being made was that an Asian’s academic credentials need to be significantly better than a URM’s to get into the same high-level school. If that isn’t the case, then what do we need AA for? To make sure all the racist admissions officers give them a fair shake?</p>