Being female would be an advantage for all of MIT/Mudd/Olin. Also at tech institutes like RPI, WPI, RIT, and Stevens, and they do offer merit scholarships. Some of them substantial (depending on the school).
I agree. In my familyâs experience, MIT was much more generous with financial aid even when compared to other schools that met full-need.
Heâll be attending McMaster in the fall which is a strong STEM school in itâs own right but Waterlooâs engineering program is considered superior due in part to the strength of itâs co-op program. While Mac is better known for itâs medical & health sciences programs, they have an excellent engineering program as well. To be honest when my nephew toured both schools he actually preferred McMaster in terms of âfitâ so not being admitted to Waterloo may just turn out to have been for the best as he would have been hard pressed to turn it down had heâd been accepted.
As for NA schoolâs not being able to support their domestic STEM applicants, there are plenty of schools in Canada offering engineering and some of them arenât that competitive to get into. All engineering programs in Canada regardless of school are accredited and provide the same curriculum. Itâs just that everyone wants to attend the ones that are considered more prestigious due to their selectivity of admissions and of course employers like to recruit students from those programs.
I agree. MIT has the most generous financial aid, so if itâs that unaffordable you need to start focusing on merit aid.
There is National Hispanic Recognition based on the 11th grade PSAT: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/scholarships-and-recognition/recognition-programs , which some colleges give scholarships for. However, students chasing scholarships with the 11th grade PSAT are often trying for National Merit, which more colleges have scholarships (sometimes larger) for.
For example, Arizona State considers both National Merit and National Hispanic Recognition as what it calls âNational Scholarsâ and offers similar (large) scholarships for both ( https://barretthonors.asu.edu/admissions/national-scholar ). But some other colleges offer big scholarships only for National Merit.
The same applies in many US states. For example, you can study civil, electrical, or mechanical engineering at UCLA or CSULA. One of these is much more popular and therefore much more selective than the other.
However, for some liberal arts majors (as opposed to pre-professional majors with external accreditation like engineering majors accredited by ABET), the variation of academic content between different colleges can be substantial (but not necessarily always in correlation to admission selectivity).
Re: North American schools observation. Yes, no one in life âdeservesâ anything.
The path to our financial donut hole:
My parents grew up in the Depression - dad fought in WWII as a teen - and grew from very humble (understatement) childhoods to a solid middle-class family. Dad had no chip on his shoulder. Went to Alaska (before I was born) and worked to earn the down payment on the family âforever home.â In his late 30s (significantly older than his classmates) he earned an MBA. Ended up at a head office. (Both his degrees happened to be from what are considered top schools today.) His gradual blue-to-white collar journey was a mix of hard work, education (paying his own way as he went), and opportunity. Left a big impression.
Growing up we had every local lesson imaginable - music, art, dance, sports, scouting - even the proverbial newspaper routes. Lots of community volunteering. As an â80s kid with parents older than some of my teachers, my folks were not easy-going, superficial, nor of the opinion that things just work out. Occasionally the upbringing felt out of time - not in a negative way.
Cut to: graduation - ready for the world, industry-relevant job in hand (unlike many peers). Within four months, the job is cut (first in, last out), parents develop terminal health issues, a decade balancing care-giving and P/T gigs. Probate settled, finally marry the spouse (working in another country for a while). Buy forever home*. Kid shows up. Price out working F/T versus child care costs; cheaper to stay at home, raise kid. Sporadic P/T work, community volunteering.
*Fatal financial error: following the ârents. My inheritance was a small chunk of change - how to honor their memory? Be fiscally conservative - put their savings and mine into a down payment on a forever home, before starting a family. So we did. In 2005. For a place that cost half of what the bank âapprovedâ us for. Had this been 2002 or 2008, no worries. It wasnât.
tl/dr: career trajectory/salary hugely impacted by parental, spousal, kid needs + one bad financial decision made in good faith = cc post
UBC annual tuition for engineering is about 6k US dollars. Great school, it will be hard to match thay price if you or spouse or kid retained Canadian citizenship.
@compmom and @thealternative - I forgot about the South American ancestry. I have a niece who is in the running for national hispanic scholar (her Dad is Brazilian). That is still based on PSAT, but a different pool than the main National Merit process (at least I think so).
On some other threads it has been discussed that as parents, we need to be frank with our students about a budget for school. One of the posts above asks a good point, if MIT wasnât going to give you enough aid, where do you think you will get any aid? At this point, you are down to National Merit schools or CSUs.
FYI - ASU offers a great National Hispanic Scholarship too 
^ Besides the NMS schools, there are some with automatic scholarships. Others too, but yes, generally tough to get.
I donât believe the OP has said yet what they can afford to pay for college, though, so right now, it seems like weâre still all guessing about what schools may be realistic affordable options.
Agree. Is the budget something like:
- UC in-state (about $31-38k currently, including about $14k tuition and $1-2k books).
- CSU in-state (about $27-30k currently, including about $8k tuition and $1-2k books).
- Commuting to a UC or CSU from home is typically estimated to be $8-10k less, but that varies based on actual food and utilities consumed by the student and actual commuting costs.
- Community college for two years before transferring to UC or CSU is about $1.5k tuition and $1-2k books for those two years, plus presumed other costs as a commuter student (obviously, followed by UC or CSU costs for the last two years). However, it may not be that suitable for a very advanced student who may have already taken the highest level courses in some subjects.
- Expect costs to go up if there is an economic downturn that will result in state budget cuts at state universities and endowment losses at private colleges, as well as increased costs due to COVID-19-related measures that college are taking.
So the four year cost (list price without financial aid or scholarships) before cost increases would be:
- UC as residential student: $124-$152k.
- UC as commuter student: $84k-$120k.
- CSU as residential student: $108-$120k.
- CSU as commuter student: $68k-$88k.
@thealternative , do the above look comfortably affordable?
Note: student can take loans of $5.5k, $5.5k, $6.5k, $7.5k for the four years.
Such incredibly helpful information. Currently trying to establish a budget. Kid will need to do a masters so that colors the undergrad options.
The kid has been told in passing that down the line, theyâll go to the school that shows them the financial love. If they apply to reaches, itâs strictly to know whether or not they could get in. Going wonât be happening - unless they happen upon a hitherto rich relative (and there isnât one).
This thread was started precisely because you have a poster who was educated in another country, has very little clue about the admissions landscape, - even in state - and has an American/Canadian kid who is aiming for financial fit options that perhaps includes some merit. All options in both countries are on the table, and if reach schools arenât, best to know now.
One common but important financial decision (buying a somewhat similar-sized home in a similar type of neighborhood to the one I grew up in) turned out to be at the wrong time (2005). We landed in a high COL area because after the 1999-2000 bust, this was where the next job was. We are in a safe but by no means posh neighborhood; spouse saw enough civil war growing up that there was a desire for the kid to actually have a childhood.
When the MIT rough calculation showed up, thatâs when I had to confront my craptastic math skills. My first year university tuition: $1,200 CDN - MIT current frosh tuition: $53,450 USD. My first year total attendance (in another city): perhaps $5,000 CDN versus a minimum $73,160 USD for MIT. The full-pay $$$ for reach schools, should the kid somehow defy all odds and happen to get in, is locked up in the house. Otherwise we wouldnât be having this conversation - which boils down to - whatâs next?
A home and under-funded retirement assets are part of their equation. Fine. My equation is different: net salary (which hopefully will not be affected by job loss). The actual after-tax cash to work with. (Many might not agree with me and I totally get it.) So when MITâs formula per year left us with only a mortgage payment, no money left for insurance, utilities, water, food, transportation, gas - thatâs when the need to research alternatives started. By the time she applies to schools, things will be different. But the basic school information still stands.
So if your income is above the $150-180k range, then the top schools with amazing financial aid wonât help. They donât count your house. But I donât think options are as limited as described above. Again, a female STEM applicant, and one with a Hispanic background, may get offers for merit. And Olin (was tuition free), Cooper Union (is tuition free) and maybe others are also available paths.
As for grad school: I did not want to commit to my sonâs college until I talked with the financial aid office about grad school. They told me not to worry about it, there would be fellowships. As it turns out, it is a different kid who did grad school but getting into a direct PhD program with masters along the way often means funding the whole time. I would add that STEM doctoral students are usually well-funded.
House prices are still high. I guess selling your house could help with college costs and retirement. Donât know if you have other kids. Other people will object to this but that is what I did. I downsized and freed up some money. Then again, not sure how that affects financial aid if it is indeed possible.
Why will the kid need to get a masterâs?
- What CAN you pay per year for your student to attend college?
- While it might have been more cost effective for you to stay home as a parent initially, perhaps now is the time to add a second income to your family (the Thumper family used that second income to fund college for two kids at expensive private universities...out of current earnings).
- Is there a CA public university within commuting distance of your home? If this is the case, only tuition and fees would be billable costs to you. And yes, I know there are costs associated to commuting...but they are less than room/board costs at most places.
- Are you Calgrant eligible? It sounds like you arenât...but are you?
- I heard yesterday that the UCs will be test optional for the next two years, and then NO test for two years...and then possibly developing their own test later. This has the potential to affect admission and application numbers at these schools...and certainly will be a shift in how admissions are done...if this happens.
- Why does this kid need a masters? And even if she does...that is a long way down the road.
In terms of searching for merit now, here is my opinion. The âlandscapeâ of guaranteed and even competitive merit awards is a moving target. Awards that were available five years ago or less either have been reduced, eliminated, or are even more competitive. Any merit research you do now is for what is happeningâŠnow. It very well might not apply at all when your daughter applies to college.
Couple of thoughtsâŠfor a mech e, she wonât need a masters degree to be gainfully employed after undergrad⊠My D is a rising college junior chem e. Sheâs planning a masters in the future too but her co-op company already told her that if she comes to work for them after graduation, theyâll pay for it. Many companies have those type of tuition reimbursement programs for their employees. Personally I would take worrying about a masters out of the equation.
Donât waste your Dâs time applying to schools you know are unaffordable. One of the biggest surprises to us was the number of essays required to apply to colleges. I naively assumed that it was the common app essay and that was it. Not true at all! Each school will have their own college specific essays, honors college essays, merit scholarship essays. My D applied to 8 schools and wrote 19 unique essays. It was a ton of work on top of a rigorous senior year course load.
The kid wants to design/build a specific line of technically-complex products. Of course, this could change. But a MechEng degree followed by a design masters (the costs of which are on the student/parent) seems like the path for now. Design jobs are hard to come by, so it seems that having the engineering background would make the odds of success a bit better.
Since six years of school are potentially on deck, and given how much top schools charge, knowing the worst allows planning for the best⊠fit (ie. currently not a top full-pay school).
@thumper1âs posts have been very inspiring and the plan is to fund out of current earnings. The second salary challenge is a stop-and-start work history so canât pin that down yet.
Last year, things were looking up. The kid was a Bradley finalist. Unfortunately, this public school kid came into the interview process severely under-supported, with no mentoring, versus students from private k-8 schools or who were part of gifted programs. Extroverts with the gift of gab, or even introverts that are well-prepped through years of a private education/GT support, will understandably present what interviewers can see and get behind. Having never interviewed before, she couldnât. A case of âworst fit for an interview/best fit for a scholar.â Ultimately, not a scholar.
What was lost? A potential lifetime peer group (huge loss there), academic mentorship, and four years at a great fit high school program. Didnât expect the kid to win it. But had hoped. From the world is her academic oyster - back to a sweet lonely kid trying their best to connect with others on the same small public campus with the same class for high school. (Of course, many students feel this way at any school. Our kid is no outlier.)
This also impacted my hope to return to full-time work. Getting her into a more rigorous private program would have offset the kidâs academic course load, which has several advanced classes. The kidâs school offers flexibility, but it is not full-time, which makes me a home-schooling parent.
^ Your local public school isnât full-time?
I also wouldnât make assumptions. Thereâs a lot that fit under the âdesignâ rubric. But if a masterâs may be in the plan, you really should focus on test prep to get PSAT/SAT scores that would make undergrad cheap/free more than anything else.
I donât believe Mudd has any scholarship that knocks costs that low, for instance, and those types of scholarships arenât assured.
I agree. The best plan seems to be a quality state flagship with a lot of merit aid and save the money/prestige for grad school.