Probably post 2008 financial crisis which triggered the STEM or bust craze. Applications to engineering programs have been growing at a crazy rate. The top schools can afford to be choosy and with so many highly qualified students applying the only real way to differentiate them is via supplemental applications. Waterloo gets over 11,000 applications for around 1,600 spots.
If your son is interesting in building, Waterloo offers and architectural engineering program that might be of interest.
I am not a frequent poster, but Iāve followed CC since 2015 because Iām a planner too, with three kids who are now in middle school, HS, and college. You have received some great advice already! I particularly like USMA87ās. You are way ahead of even the typical āplannerā type, IMHO. Good for you.
I missed any specific responses to your question about multiple transcripts for DE courses taken at different institutions. Yes, those college transcripts will follow the person for the rest of their life. Yes, the transcripts will need to be requested every time time that person applies for admission to a degree program at an accredited college or university in the US, or for a job that requires all academic transcripts. Whether that ends up being expensive depends on what each original institution charges. The last time I needed transcripts, several were free, but the others charged something for the service.
^ Yes, a good point.
College transcripts (including DE and CC) are like your āpermanent recordā, at least in the academic world (the vast majority of employers would care less about your transcripts). So those grades do matter. HS, not so much, IMO. Though there are advantages to attending an elite HS, thatās more for your own benefit. Even what college you attend for undergrad may not matter that much in the grand scheme of things (many paths to whatever goals you have in this country). Though your major may matter more (certain professions require certain majors and you shut some doors depending on what you take in undergrad).
What do you expect to be able to afford for college? Are you entitled to instate California tuition? If cost is an issue for you, and it is , for most families, it is important to get a good idea of what you can reasonably afford for college , and what you are going to be expected to pay.
It would be wise to run your numbers through some FaFSa EFC estimators and get to know how that process works if your student is considered a US citizen or green card. Also whether the student is entitled to California state tuition. Run the Net Price Calculators at a number of schools and see what you are going to be expected to pay. If you have your own business, have unusual financial situations, it would be wise to go to a college financial aid counselor, independent or at a local college to get some idea how your situation will translate into what you are going to be expected to pay. Also get a good idea what the Canadian colleges will cost for you .
This is is essential because at this point, you cannot predict what the merit scholarship availability is going to be for your student at colleges. They can change drastically from year to year, as can your studentās academic standing.
Yes, look at the Arizona state schools, New Mexico schools and other Out of state and private schools. What would they cost you for your student to go to them?
Also California students going to community colleges can save money by transferring junior year and there are some programs and situations that are attractive and very cost effective.
Busy formulating a relevant reply to each relevant post - you guys are a real beacon of light, sharing your insights while weāre dealing with the issues of the day. Thank you.
It must be mentioned that the kid is female, considerably under the age of 15 and part-Hispanic. Frankly, these things shouldnāt have to matter in this day and age, but there it is.
Run the net price calculators for many different types of schools you identify after going through your favorite college guide. If the NPC is too high, adjust your expectations and either aim for public (in the,US or Canada) or go all out for the few very competitive merit based scholarships at private colleges. There are kids all over the nation trying for those however, so it is a long shot even with amazing qualifications.
There are some free summer camps for Latina girls in stem. Consider those.
@usma87 Your post is the wake-up call a CA parent like me needs to see. The admissions landscape is always changing - and that change will be MACH10 for the next few years with losses posted and figuring out how to safely educate a large number of students.
The fact that you found more cost-effective choices than top-level UCs and made them work is a key observation. When others legitimately ask āwhy arenāt you taking advantage of a top UC acceptance?ā this is part of the nuance: āWe had to balance fit and financial feasibility.ā Sounds like the final schools worked out well for your three sons - kudos to having a realistic application outlook. And finding a school where your child can build meaningful relationships is everything.
Our student does understand that education is everything (something my father made no bones about to me; this advice is forwarded on to the kid).
@2ndthreekids wrote āAsk anyone in CA with a current college student about UC admittance and you will hear stories of very accomplished kids with very high stats who were not admitted to any UC they applied to. Itās devastating for some of these kids who did not apply to a private or OOS WUE school where they could get non-financial aid. Planning for another alternative just as much as you might plan for a UC is important, unless your student is OK with UC Merced (not knocking it, but that might be the only UC your student is admitted to i.e. for those in the top 9% of the state, guaranteed UC admission).ā
@AlwaysMoving UCs could be a strong fit - but, see above. Also, the quarter system moves at a very brisk pace. Semester studies are, at this point, preferable. Better pace for learning and retaining info. Will still put in applications down the line and see what the package is. But that is years away.
@gwnorth Your nephew & Waterloo: thatās awful. Where did he end up? The fact that North American schools canāt accommodate all of their home-grown applicants, particularly STEM ones, is a serious problem for the future of economic prosperity.
At some quarter system schools, the quarter system courses are āsmallerā. An example would be a year-long physics course being divided into three 10-week quarters versus two 15-week semesters. Same pace, but you get three final exams instead of two.
At other quarter system schools, the quarter system courses do cram a semesterās worth of material or almost that much into the course, but the student takes fewer courses per term.
āThe fact that you found more cost-effective choices than top-level UCs and made them work is a key observation.ā
But one that is hugely dependent on income levels. You havenāt given any indication of that. If your family income is $180K-$200K+ then schools like Notre Dame are very unlikely to be competitive in cost to the UCs. So then the question is whether to go to a less highly ranked school to get substantial merit. However if you can win that, then itās also likely you will get into a good UC.
āAsk anyone in CA with a current college student about UC admittance and you will hear stories of very accomplished kids with very high stats who were not admitted to any UC they applied to.ā
UC admissions are generally more predictable for unhooked instate applicants than those at private colleges. In your specific situation being a URM may be an advantage for private colleges that are not bound by Prop 209.
UC admissions does not consider legacy or race/ethnicity, usually the largest in numbers of āhooksā at colleges where they are considered. Because they are relatively large, the number of recruited athletes is a small percentage of the students (unlike at some small LACs that field full sets of sports teams).
However, while their frosh admission stats list by HS GPA (recalculated) band, they do not have any breakdown by division or major (unlike their transfer admission stats), leading to some additional uncertainty there. Engineering majors are commonly more selective than the campus overall (and not just at UC).
@thealternative DD was admitted to Waterloo CS which is as selective as software engineering. She had plenty of extracurriculars, but they were mainly in performing arts. There were none in STEM. She had had a summer job. Waterloo looks for employability, so any type of job looks good on the application. They give additional admission āpointsā if a student has taken their Euclid math contest or the Canadian Computing Challenge.
Two helpful websites https://uwaterloo.ca/future-students/programs/software-engineering https://uwaterloo.ca/engineering/future-undergraduate-students/application-process/admission-averages
The former Waterloo engineering admissions director, Bill Anderson, writes a blog. Heās no longer involved in admissions, but his blog is still up. I canāt link it here because itās a blog, but if you search āBill Anderson, Waterloo, how itās going to workā, one of his useful blogs will come up.
@Twoin18 Good to know. Been trying to not be too specific about income due to spouseās wishes. The hole is real, though. Took the kid to a āMeet MITā chat last year that happened to be in town. They showed slides about the cool dorm options for frosh (great for a kid to see) and had alumni discuss the school. The kid lit up like a Christmas tree and immediately wanted to be a part of the student building fun. Checked out the quick & dirty cost estimator. After what it said our family contribution should be, the amount left would cover our monthly mortgage payment - no money left for insurance, utilities, water, food, transportation, gasā¦
āThe fact that North American schools canāt accommodate all of their home-grown applicants, particularly STEM ones, is a serious problem for the future of economic prosperity.ā
Uh, they can. Nobody is entitled to Waterloo/Cal(/other top UCs and Canadian publics). Not getting in to Waterloo doesnāt mean they canāt study CS/engineering somewhere else.
If MIT is not going to give you anywhere close to the financial aid you will be needing, then you are very likely not going to be able to afford the most selective schools as rated by USNews. Those are the ones that tend to give only need based aid. They also give very few merit scholarships so the chances of getting one is very small, a lottery ticket
What can you afford? Is your daughter entitled to instate California tuition? Is that affordable with room and board, or only as a commuter? What is your local UC? Does it have a community college program that feeds into it? Start with the most likely and affordable venues. Once you have those covered your daughter can go after merit money with impunity. Things do change, and these days rapidly, so large merit awards available today may not be there or as available by the time your DD is applying to college. Iāve seen many great awards now become scarcer, lower in amounts on average and have an application process when they once were automatic. So you do have to keep up with whatās going on.
Your daughters grades, test scores and difficulty of courses are what will most affect competitiveness for merit awards.
If what MIT says you are expected to pay just covers your living expenses, you must have a huge mortgage or high assets or some other different from usual situation. I know a number of kids at MIT with parents having 6 figure income, living well, and getting enough from MIT so that it rivals their state school costs. They are generous with financial aid.
As KevinfromOC learned, schools generally come close to the NPC number and do not budge from there. It sounds like you have much in common, so that thread should be very useful, though you could also add in your California and Canada options.
Two thoughts:
Why take two lab sciences at once? What hurry is he in?
Can he take some other kind of elective?
As a freshman he is already taking Calculusā¦if you think that will be challenging why add two sciences? Just take Biology.
AP vs DE
ā¢ AP tests are well known nationally and are uniform across the nation
ā¢ You can look on any collegeās website and see what credit you will get for what scores on the AP tests
ā¢ AP Courses are given at your High School
ā¢ AP Credit is based on a test you take on one day
ā¢ AP courses generally are more spread outā¦e.g., AP Calc AB = Calc 1 is given over a year, not a semester.
DE
ā¢ There are more of a variety of DE courses available at a CC
ā¢ DE courses will count as a college GPAā¦make sure to do well for future Med school/grad school purposes.
ā¢ DE Courses may be only available at the CCā¦how will you get there? How will they overlap with your HS schedule?
ā¢ Private and Out of State Colleges may or may not give you credit. They may not give credit for courses taken to fulfill HS requirements. You do not know what credit you can get ahead of time. Make sure to keep a copy of your syllabus to aid in determining credit.
ā¢ DE Credit is based on your grades over the semester (including final)
ā¢ Public In-state schools will give you credit for DE courses. You may be able to get up to 2 years of credits.
ā¢ DE classes may be taken at the local Community Collegeā¦how will transportation work?
ā¢ For DE classes, the āgradeā doesnāt rely on one test on one day but over a whole semester.
ā¢ DE Courses may be more condensedā¦e.g., Chem 101 is over one semester, not a year.
ā¢
In Re: ECās and Olympiads;
EVERYONE has access to the Computer Science Olympiad, (USACO). It is done individually, over the internet. They give online coding test 4 times a year, with the possibility of going up a rank at each test.
Once your son getsā entry level programming out of the way, he could sign up for some online instruction and start grinding codeforce.
OPās child is a girl @Boxcar101
OP - Definitely look into the SWE events and sign up for SWE NEXT. My D found it very helpful while in HS. This summer is probably going to be quiet because of C-19 but your D has plenty of time to get involved.
Do you have a regional university near you? You may also want to see if they do any programs in STEM for community HS students.
Some selective schools give substantial aid for incomes up to $150k or even higher. For instance, at some Ivies, a person with a family income of $150k would pay $15k per year. This may be true at other privates: it will take some digging.
I wonder if, as a female interested in STEM, and the Hispanic background, if there arenāt scholarships at both publics and privates that you could look into. The scarcity of women in engineering is evidenced in the assumptions here on the gender of your child (Including me, when building was mentioned.) These factors certainly might influence admissions at some schools, even if not explicitly stated (and I understand not at UCās).