Why engineering? Because she hopefully will be able to hack it; it’s a degree in the logic of construction, and with a design masters, makes her a strong applicant for the design work she wishes to pursue.
It’s also a flexible, practical undergrad degree. Successful completion generally indicates a certain level of competence (combined with a work history and internships).
Finally, there is no reason why she cannot own her own company in the future. To be taken seriously, she needs to know how things work on a fundamental level.
As to the age factor, it’s something I weigh constantly. Had she won the scholarship last year, she’d be enrolled in some type of more rigorous school with students her general age and temperament. However, that didn’t happen. We can’t afford her ECs and undergrad if we pay for a private program ourselves. And we are in a box: her subjects are so across-the-board in levels that few schools could accommodate that.
So if this student will graduate from high school at age 16, and that is 3 years from now…she is 13 years old. Or so. Is that correct?
I will say…she is very young to be planning out her whole future. She is a young teen. She needs to learn social skills, how to interact well with others, how to work as a member of a team. And she needs to get to be a teenager.
Is that going to happen as well…or is the focus only going to be on an undergrad engineering degree, with a design masters, etc.
Yeah, not going to deny that. Never set out to discuss careers with the kid, and not interested in pushing her into being a doctor/lawyer/accountant/software engineer. Instead, it’s the kid who has expressed an interest in what they want to do when they grow up. So, one general pathway to achieve that goal has been indicated to her. Later on, she can opt out - it’s much harder to opt in. (And why, for example, I’m okay with her not doing more bio than necessary. Unfortunately, the market has spoken, and she may have to consider rigor in the future. Up to her.)
What can be done? She has already completed five high school courses this year with A+ grades. Trying to balance her age with course load.
Haven’t discussed ECs yet due to so much good information re: the educational path. Also, trying to retain a certain amount of anonymity.
Note that for some people, a place like Princeton was far more generous than MIT, according to past threads. It seemed to be dependent on a family’s specific financial situation.
Besides school, her main EC is a technical sport that takes a lot of time and money to perfect. It’s combined with a secondary sport for cross-training. Her season includes travelling to competitions, sometimes in other states. There, she is able to catch up with other competitors and their families. She has met some truly outstanding young athletes with lots of energy and intellect. It’s a shame this season is cancelled because she won’t see them in person this summer. The competitors she is friendly with have all learned to win and lose with grace in front of a crowd and officials. Resilient, healthy, great kids. She has worked with world and Olympic-champion coaches (they either won medals themselves, or taught students who did). All very humble, generous with their expertise. Great sports/life mentors (now, if we could just find that academically…). Sport has given her certain experiences even some of the best schools perhaps couldn’t. Besides not being able to compete this summer, she can’t volunteer within the athletic community (now that she’s old enough to).
We visit museums and eat in interesting restaurants when away. Travel is on a beer budget (more driving than flights), strictly for competitions (no cruises or tropical getaways), but a day or two is tacked on at the end to appreciate the area we’re in. It’s how she’s seen other cities in the country. Her taste in food is more adventurous than mine.
We’ve also passed through campuses like MIT, Harvard, University of Delaware, Otis College, Simon Fraser - no tours - getting a sense of school vibes while on the way to dinner. No expectations other than what seems like a great environment to be young in. The University of Utah’s Museum of Fine Arts is lovely.
At home, she is developing other skills, including a trade. We make the effort to cook, eat healthy-ish. Until sports facilities re-open, she can have more time to read for pleasure. Been a bit too much binge-watching of Turner Movie Classics since the SIP order. Schoolwork finishes this week, and she will have completed all assignments.
Number of years: I would vote for four years of HS and then trying to use her AP credit to graduate undergrad in three years, if cutting off a year is desirable for life goals (also this is cheaper).
Babies: I think that’s a fine goal, and reasonable to articulate. Choose a college that will have good candidates for spouse-meeting, if possible. Despite opinions to the contrary, there are many college students who meet their spouses and are interested in having children in their 20s, even in today’s world. Also, plenty of people have the first baby in grad school. This is much easier if living close to extended family.
I will add that a close Latina friend of mine told me that when she did this (PhD at T-10 institution, having married college boyfriend, first baby during PhD at age 25), that her extended family assumed that she was throwing her career away and were upset with her. She had been one of few from that family to complete college at that point, so had to blaze her own familial trail. Which she did, but it was hard. She told me she thought that being Latina made it harder to convince her family that she could combine those particular goals.
Masters Degrees: Yes, you can have two or even more. Some institutions don’t like to award one that is “too similar” to one already held. If your DD gets a four or five year BS/MS somewhere in Mech E, I don’t see why she couldn’t get another MS in Design or whatever she wants, if that’s important.
I sense from OP’s posts that there’s still disappointment around not getting the Bradley award and going to a better high school, so now the focus is on fixing all that in college. I would say to this, that high school is an important developmental time for kids, and if there is any way to find a high school, or a program in high school, that can be a good match that you can really commit to for four good years, this will do a lot for DD’s development, growth, and eventual success.
Agreed. I was going to say this, but thought it might be irrelevant, since we’re talking having to pay $50K per year instead of $60K per year, both well above OP’s budget.
It can be more of a difference: AFAIK* Princeton doesn’t consider primary home equity whereas MIT does.
It might be worth comparing NPC results from Vassar and Boston College, simply to see how primary home value and equity factor in.
Their formula is proprietary but it seems/"sounds" like Princeton and Vassar don't count primary home (or cap it) whereas MIT does to a certain extent and BC counts it "in full".
I’m a planner too so I get it, but your child is 13. You are talking grad school and babies. My advice is to take a step back and let your kid be a kid. If she’s good enough in her sport to be a recruited athlete, that will be a whole different discussion when the time comes. The time isn’t now.
Also, as a heads up for engineering- many schools cannot graduate student early regardless of how many AP credits they accept because of course sequencing. I would plan on your child needing 4 full years of undergrad for financial planning purposes.
Please…regardless of how committed or brilliant your daughter is, she is a 13 year old. 13. She needs time to mature. She needs to have her interests nurtured, but she also needs to be encouraged to try other things.
People you meet on the EC trail when traveling, while special, might not be considered real friends. Your daughter also needs to develop some friendships and with people who do different things than she does. He life as an adult will be filled with people from multiple backgrounds and experiences. She needs to be able to work with them too.
One dollar amount you don’t mention is the actual costs for the EC sport and related costs. You won’t be paying those in college.
@KevinFromOC found a great boarding school for his daughter where she received significant financial aid. The bar for aid at boarding schools is very different than that for colleges. Did you look into that option?
At this point in time, I would put any ideas of college on the back burner. Re-visit this in a year. But in the meantime, at least give your daughter the opportunity to experience some things outside of her main interest.
When one of my kids was young, he wanted to be a pilot. He took courses, shadowed a private pilot we knew, etc. The kid loved it. He is a professional self supporting musician. My other kid was positive she wanted to be an engineer. She is a doctor.
You need to encourage a broad range of ideas at age 13. You aren’t doing that.
@momofsenior1 - which schools do you know of that prevent Engineering majors from graduating early with AP credit? I know of successes in this vein at MIT, Princeton, U of I, U of MA, U of MD, and others with older data. I thought it was almost always possible, except at LAC that make a point of not giving AP credit.
I will say that when my DS1 did it at Princeton, it was a pain in the tush, because it constrained nearly every course he took - but was still possible.
@fretfulmother — Purdue for one. Course sequencing for my D’s chem e major is such that graduating early is never an option. She used her AP credits to add a certification, a minor, and a concentration. Maybe it’s specific for chem es but we heard the same from UMD CP and others on her list.
OPs daughter is so young that who knows what her major will be so it’s best to plan on 4 years.
I agree that it’s best to plan for four years, but I also think it’s better to aim to reduce years in college instead of in high school, if that’s the choice. BTW DS1 is Chem-E.
ETA:
I realized UMD was an overlap of what our kids investigated, so I went to the page: https://chbe.umd.edu/undergraduate/sample-program
And it seems that you have to use a summer course (either CHBE 101 the summer before arrival maybe? or another summer) if you want to do it in three years.
As mentioned several times, ‘‘tis is very similar to @KevinFromOC ‘s situation. Op has read the thread, so can pick up some relevant lessons. If OP is planning on paying for college out of earnings only, and a second job is up in the air, full ride options certainly should be in the mix. The issue here is that things change. I’ve seen many automatic scholarships disappear over the years, many reduced in number and now are competitive. I expect the same will happen, and hope others open up. So right now naming such schools helps only as exam likes, not firm goals for the future.
One can see how a school like Princeton with very generous financial aid still was not affordable. Also, getting one of the very few large merit awards is not something anyone, even a top scholar can count on getting. There should be the safety schools selected to firm the base of the college list. The affordable options. Then you build up to those schools with merit scholarship possibilities. Top ranked schools like UChicago, Vanderbilt,Rice, Duke, Hopkins, do have merit money. Some really great full ride awards out there, but they are the high reach schools on the list for both affordability and acceptance. Absolutely, throw some in the mix. But also make sure there are other possibilities more likely on top of sure thing base.
Kevin’s daughter was in a recruited sport - key distinction - making her very attractive to boarding schools. She earned a scholarship and attended for three grades at %15 of normal tuition (around $9k all in per year?) and his wife, a flight attendant, made travel costs very affordable (around $1k?). So she was able to play her sport and get an excellent education for $9k. That is a rare scenario, astounding deal, and a lottery ticket in and of itself. Not recruited for hockey in college and still set to attend a great school for a profit. Great success story.
My daughter’s sport happens to not be recruitable. We did attempt the boarding school application process this year, with no expectations but to see what would come of it. Applied to two reaches and one in-state. Unfortunately only two applications were completed. The school guidance counselor twice didn’t successfully send the current academic transcript (and we made the mistake of not checking with the school that the second time was the charm), so that application was considered incomplete and a wash. Wait-listed at the two other schools. The experience was illuminating. Helped her see how a certain sub-section of other kids get educated.
There are many things we might not see eye-to-eye on, and it’s understandable. Don’t mind push-back because it doesn’t cost anything. But perhaps some things should be clarified.
This thread has been started because there is no counselling at school to cater to the kid’s particular needs (which is a common experience to many students at many schools). The Bradley scholarship, plus the school chosen to attend, would have provided two different groups of free support on many different levels (social, financial, academic). Huge loss - especially the peer group. Things happen. Can’t change it. Since that isn’t an option, here we are.
The school counselor has been asked for help on advising for courses, sparingly and with respect. It’s been confusing. In the past, she has been placed in the wrong math level (too low), then advised to skip (missing information-which isn’t a good idea; math is a progression). Like every family, it’s up to us to figure this out.
Getting schooling/education pathways advice on this thread is important. Most students have guidance counselors or a gifted group or a school to help with that. There is no other site or group I have consulted in this matter. For better or worse, the job has landed on me.
To be clear: her classes and course load are guided by her interests and abilities. But no kid knows the progression to certain schools and careers. So I am finding this out. With adults. Not sitting at home discussing this with her. She has mentioned wanting kids in the future, and what she wants to do in life. Happy to support her dreams.
@thumper1 Re: people from multiple backgrounds - we are those people, as it were. Ethnically, historically, geographically - within a generation. It’s why the kid’s family backstory was touched upon. At school, the SES skews mostly lower-to-middle class, with some outliers. At sport, some middle, much upper.
The kid’s interests have been nurtured over time - particularly at summer camps, based on the kid’s choices. Language, arts, claymation, playing with American Girl dolls - the YMCA was great when it was an age-appropriate option. Perhaps other interests haven’t been mentioned. Doesn’t mean they haven’t been happening.
For whatever reason, there seems to be some perception that my daughter can’t be herself or change. You mention that your son took courses and shadowed a pilot. So you supported his interests. Exactly what a caring parent does. That’s what’s happening here. Her school isn’t capable of nurturing a broad range of ideas any more than any other average public. In fact, the shoe-string budget means that other schools have STEM and art options this one doesn’t. So our family has been supplementing, as best as we can.
The EC costs can be transferred to college, yes. And also solidifying retirement accounts. And maintaining the house which now needs many needed repairs. My parents raised me in a stable home, and gave me tons of lessons growing up. Same thing is happening here. Just on a different economy of scale.
Ideas of college can’t be on the back-burner. Course progression considerations are happening now due to where she is in that path.
@momofsenior1 Re: engineering undergrad - apologies if this was not clear - not saying the kid needs to graduate post-secondary early. She could maximize her time at school and do a minor, a concentration, one extra year and get a masters. All things currently unknown because finding schools and programs takes time. Then one needs to be admitted to said program - never a guarantee.
The side discussion of challenges balancing kids/career is happening here - with adults - not with the kid. Done work in a subset of the design field; seen first-hand how competitive it is for jobs. Also had my career impacted by the demands of parents, a spouse, kids. So yeah, figuring out how to account for schooling (costs!), motherhood, a career for a daughter - all of which she’s expressed an interest in - it’s part of the long-term thought process.
There is a big difference between @KevinFromOC and this young student.
Kevin reaches out to this community for college info when his daughter had just about completed her junior year of high school and was not graduating early.
This young student is 13 years old.
I think that is a very huge difference.
As you noted, we allowed our kid to explore multiple interests, but we never pigeon holed either of our kids to a lifelong career or anything else that far in the future when they were 13 years old.
That was still the time to have fun with friends, continue to try many different things, and learn to think and work out of their comfort zone…because we wanted them to really experience a lot before making lifelong decisions.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. You seem satisfied that your 13 year old has found a passion. That’s fine…but I really think she needs to be open minded.
If you have ever studied futuristics, you would know that careers someone might do 5 years from now, might not even exist now. And careers that seem promising now might not be so much so in the future.
