Family Gets Lesson in Admissions

<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-08-23-college-admissions_x.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-08-23-college-admissions_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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Jonathan graduated from Robinson High School in Fairfax, Va., as a valedictorian with an International Baccalaureate diploma. Though his SAT scores weren't the highest — just under 1,400 — he had a staggering record of activities and accomplishments, ranging from fuel cell research, which led to a patent application and a trip to Japan to meet the royal family, to starting a fencing team and also serving as president of the school orchestra and National Honor Society. An Eagle Scout, he was a mentor to special-needs children for six years. He served on the student advisory board to the State Board of Education and later was a student advisory member of the Fairfax County School Board.

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<p>Thanks for the post, Coureur. I wonder whether we should conclude that, in the end, SATs matter--at least at Princeton and Yale where this stellar student was rejected.</p>

<p>Good article. Thanks. That's why you're on my buddy list.</p>

<p>"Electronic applications have made it easy to apply to a dozen colleges, but schools are paying more attention to how much a student wants to attend, Hawkins says. "If you apply to 12 institutions, it's hard to express a genuine level of interest that you really want to go there."</p>

<p>Indeed, the Crosses say the 12 colleges Jonathan applied to were about six too many, adding hundreds of dollars in fees and immeasurably to family anxiety. </p>

<p>"It was obscene, overkill," Jonathan says."</p>

<p>I'm thinking that his applying to so many schools meant he couldn't give the personal attention to his Princeton application that may have made it stand out more. He may have appeared to them to be going through the motions, or he may have made some mistakes such as inserting the name of "Duke" into his application or referring to things that other colleges have, but Princeton doesn't. </p>

<p>I saw research by a college counselor who said that students who apply to 8 or fewer colleges tend to get more acceptances than do students who apply to more colleges. The counselor speculated that is because the students applying to fewer schools have made more careful selections and also are able to spend more time preparing for their interviews and honing their applications.</p>

<p>As an Ivy alum interviewer, I can usually tell from interviews when extraordinary students have applied to tons of colleges. This isn't because I ask where they apply: I don't. It's because the students answer questions like they've answered them many times before. Their answers are pat and lack interest. It also tends to be hard to schedule them for interviews -- probably because they're having to fit lots of interviews into already tight schedules.</p>

<p>Back to the USA Today family: Getting into Duke with merit money is a very big deal, so the family really has nothing to complain about. Duke gives merit money to a relatively few students, and those are ones that Duke hopes to be luring away from places like Princeton. Duke also is an excellent college.</p>

<p>We know the subject of the article (a neighbor). Believe me, he's not crying in his Cheerios about "only" going to Duke on a full scholarship. 4 other '06ers from Robinson are also settling for Duke.</p>

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<p>The above is advice that is well-known to all long-time CC members. We're all ahead of the curve!</p>

<p>"If they had to do it again, Jim Cross would encourage his son to apply, early in the fall, to a school with "rolling admission," where the staff processes applications and announces decisions as they come in. Getting an early, non-binding acceptance would have reduced the stress during the January-to-March waiting period and may have helped them cut down the overall number of applications."</p>

<p>How true!</p>

<p>I chuckled over this:
[quote]
But the family did take some key steps to keep it manageable. Jim did much of the research on colleges and scholarships and kept on Jonathan to meet deadlines. Early in the fall, Jim started a master spreadsheet tracking all the colleges with their requirements and deadlines, 15 or 16 columns long.

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<p>Remember, Jim is the father.</p>

<p>I wonder if this kid was stage managed from a young age. Some of that kind of kid don't do nearly as well in college. They don't do badly, they just don't star, because they no longer have their support system that does the background work for them. They'll see.</p>

<p>NSM:</p>

<p>I don't get your speculations. The student applied ED to Princeton and did not get in. He got into all the other schools he applied to except Yale. So the whole issue of his not doing a careful job on his applications because he had so many wo't fly. Nor does the idea that he may have written in the wrong school name on his applications.</p>

<p>Please.</p>

<p>" He encouraged Jonathan to apply to a couple of less-well-known schools where he thought Jonathan would be very happy, such as Bucknell. "Bucknell is much better than its name recognition."</p>

<p>Nice PR for Bucknell- I agree, it is much better than name recognition
Bucknell grad 77' :)</p>

<p>From what I see, it seems his fuel cell research was key here. His father being a nuclear chemist may have helped with that?</p>

<p>"NSM:</p>

<p>I don't get your speculations. The student applied ED to Princeton and did not get in. He got into all the other schools he applied to except Yale. So the whole issue of his not doing a careful job on his applications because he had so many wo't fly. Nor does the idea that he may have written in the wrong school name on his applications.</p>

<p>Please."</p>

<p>You may be right. I'm still trying to figure out how he didn't get into Yale and Princeton. What do you think? Just luck of the draw of outstanding applicants?</p>

<p>I'm always thankful that the environment at my sons' high school is one where the kids do not talk about their college plans. In fact, even upon graduation my son did not know where some of his friends had applied or got into or rejected at. (For the most part he knew where they were going - but even that wasn't 100%.) Maybe it's because it's all boys, I don't know. But, really, who needs it?</p>

<p>"I'm still trying to figure out how he didn't get into Yale and Princeton. What do you think? Just luck of the draw of outstanding applicants?"</p>

<p>I think the kid had excellent results and was an outstanding candidate. Not getting into Princeton or Yale is not far fetched because of the extremely low admit rates that turn away highly qualified candidates like him, at those two schools. Luck of the draw, yes. His SATs were lower than some but I don't think that kept him out necessarily because he had other great acceptances. I also do not think it had to do with having 12 apps. </p>

<p>My own kid was also a val with higher SATs than this boy with excellent ECs as well and of all her schools, she had one denial (after an EA deferral) and it was Yale and one waitlist and it was Princeton. I didn't think ANYTHING kept her out and I have nothing at all to analyze about it. We knew going into it that with an 8% admit rate in the RD round at Princeton and something like an 9% admit rate that year in the RD round at Yale, that we would never expect anything. We only knew she was someone in realistic contention but the odds would still be slim given the admit rate and that there were far too many this qualified than could be admitted. So, this boy's results are not so unfathomable given the admit rates at those two schools. As you can see, he is going to Duke on scholarship which is a very huge achievement.</p>

<p>what is the big puzzle....what is it 1 in 8 or 9 don't get in who qualified....pure #s...some people have to be rejected...unfair, of course, but suprising, no....</p>

<p>Making a new email account just for app, great ECs, IB, having a resume and applying to an obscene amount of colleges. </p>

<p>Sounds like me. Except with average grades and SAT scores.</p>

<p>oh, and I love how they mention that online forums made it seem like a life and death situation -- because it's making it seem that way for me too. </p>

<p>So what I've learned from this article is that i'm a little f-ed.</p>

<p>Weenie wrote:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm always thankful that the environment at my sons' high school is one where the kids do not talk about their college plans. In fact, even upon graduation my son did not know where some of his friends had applied or got into or rejected at. (For the most part he knew where they were going - but even that wasn't 100%.) Maybe it's because it's all boys, I don't know. But, really, who needs it?

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<p>Weenie, I agree. After I have observed this sort of thing right here on CC as to what others say their schools or communities are like, I am so thankful that this was not the case at all at our HS and my kids rarely discussed where they were applying or SAT scores and so on at school. Come May of senior year, then kids talked about where they were headed. My kids went to an unknown public HS that many of the families in those other communities likely would never consider but the more I think about it, I think they were lucky. Like you said, who needs it? I am reading the Overachievers right now. While my kids are overachieving types, they did not have any pressure from others and are just motivated and driven but it wasn't about competition or about getting into a prestigious school and so forth.</p>

<p>NIce article--I don't hear stagemanaging in the kid's accomplishments at all, and I usually have an ear tuned for that. These sound like, to me, very impressive, legitimate achievements. It looks like the parents helped a lot in the app process, in a way about equivalent to a lot of us here--research, secretarial, and resident sounding boards. It also sounds like he's very happy (full ride to Duke? who wouldn't be) with how things turned out.</p>

<p>This year, surprisingly, the val from our hs did get into Yale. We are, basically, Podunk High--inner suburban model--and the kid would not have had any of the resources (like IB program, fuel cell research, assigned brag sheets, etc) that this young man had. He was very involved in a number of things in the school. But my H, who met him as a teacher, said that you could just tell there was something brilliant about him--not outwardly driven like many high achievers, but obviously operating at another plane. It did not surprise him when the kid got the Yale acceptance. </p>

<p>My gut reaction is that at that level, some schools are looking at not so much what you've done, as who you are, at least as much as they can divine from what they see in your application. Which is not meant to say that the high achievers are any less worthy, just that my uninformed guess is that the achievements are maybe not as big a part of the package as is sometimes guessed. </p>

<p>Again, though, this sounds like a great kid, who won an extraordinary prize to a great school, after a very thoughtful admission process. Kudos to him.</p>

<p>and, what a whiney family.....he got into some great schools, with $$, and yet it wasn't the "perfect" result</p>

<p>they should count their blessings nstead of looking like the schools Son got into were second best</p>

<p>that is all in the eye of the beholder</p>

<p>we can get very spoiled and short sighted and expect thngs to always go or way- that perfect ob, that scholarship, that internship, that admintance, and in the real world it seldom does, and to wonder why ad nauseum each and every goal wasn't acheived, many of which are out of our hands does no one any good</p>

<p>with so many kids not even being able to go to school due to finances, with $$ drying up, few new campuses being built, that would have been a much better article, why are we not building enough schools to match the growing population than dealing with a fammily that has know clue how lucky they are</p>

<p>Wow, I sure didn't see that whininess. Sounds like a pretty happy young man.</p>