Family Gets Lesson in Admissions

Parents Forum
341

<p>Conyat, thanks for the info - I wasn't aware of the difference. It puts things in a somewhat different light. </p>

<p>Suze, to me the initial sentence I quoted, [G]etting kids into that dream college starts with raising kids who'll be a college's dream candidate. Parents have to find and create opportunities for kids to develop their interests from a very early age suggests a very parent-driven process, all with the goal of getting the kid into the Ivy league. And I do think that is over the top, and very different than simply nurturing and supporting the kid's interests along the way. The key is the idea of the parent finding and creating the opportunities, which I assume means more to Ms. Wissner-Gross than merely looking up the name of the nearest karate studio in the phone book when the kid announces he wants to learn to fight like a Ninja turtle.</p>

<p>To me, the goal of parenting is to raise kids who will be self-directed and self-sufficient, which means backing off gradually over the years and letting the child make a few mistakes along the way. If the Ivy League college starts out as a parental goal, it is hard for the parent to allow those errors.</p>

342

<p>Calmom, in closer examination of that quote, I agree with you. The idea that the goal from the outset of raising your kids is to get them into a dream college is one that I don't agree with and just do not relate to. My kids, nor I, were thinking of college admissions until they got to 11th grade and started a college search (well, my youngest graduated early so searched in tenth). The choices they made leading up to that college search, were not with college admissions in mind. The only thing I think they did consciously with the goal of getting into college, was to do well at their academics since you have to do your best in that area if you want to attain further educational goals, basically. But the opportunities that were found to pursue their interests were for the sole reason of wanting to do these activities, not with college admissions in mind. They still want to do these activities and they are IN college, lol. They have deeply held lifelong interests and it has nothing to do with college admissions. So, yes, I agree that the initial part of the sentence turns me off. </p>

<p>I was mostly agreeing with the quote on the part that parents help provide opportunities...such as exposing them to this or that. Then, the kid may fall in love with this or that (talking fairly young now) and ask to do more of that activity or to add X activity or whatever. So, I think that is rather normal or even good parenting. My kids drove that process but we were there to provide the opportunities for them to do the activities that they asked to do or we found out about them, etc. Did I mention all the driving?? LOL. </p>

<p>Anyway, I think a parent can fascillitate finding opportunities for children but these should be activities or interests that the child has, not ones done to get into a dream college. I can't recall my kids ever picking an activity with the notion, "this will look good for college, so I should participate." Most of their interests are activities they began when they were very young and yes, we did find opportunities for them to develop these interests, but for their own sake, not to get into college. By the time we started focusing on college, the basis of their "resume" was already built and done.</p>

343

<p>The story was about how even a USA TODAY FIRST TEAM ACADEMIC ALL-AMERICAN! doesn't get a free pass and has to worry a little about getting into college. He didn't get accepted at the first-choice school he fell in love with, even though he's a great kid. But he is validated by other schools and winds up with great options. He's just like your kid, except a little more accomplished. </p>

<p>That's a perfectly good story line. I may not like the tone of the article, but I'm not in the USA Today demo.</p>

344

<p>
[quote]
The story was about how even a USA TODAY FIRST TEAM ACADEMIC ALL-AMERICAN! doesn't get a free pass and has to worry a little about getting into college. He didn't get accepted at the first-choice school he fell in love with, even though he's a great kid. But he is validated by other schools and winds up with great options. He's just like your kid, except a little more accomplished.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So, isn't that we have been debating here? That the USA TODAY FIRST TEAM ACADEMIC ALL-AMERICAN! doesn't get a free pass at our most selective schools, which incidentally seem to have higher standards than the ones set by a newspaper? </p>

<p>What is next? Admissions decisions by the National Enquirer or a TV Reality show? Oops, that seems to have been done already!</p>

345

<p>Actually, Xiggi, I think that CC could put together a really good reality-TV admissions committee. :)</p>

346

<h1>330 "afa - Do I understand you correctly? In Va, the highest possible GPA, assuming all above level classes is 4.5? "</h1>

<p>Yes in Fairfax. In other counties, it can be different on the weighting.</p>

<p>I always see enrollment numbers of 4000, Robinson is a SS the HS is 2800 and the MS is 1300. In the paper all you ever see is the 4000 number. So yes it is small than I remember.</p>

347

<p>In the end, I believe this is the point:


When I graduated the New Jersey Star Ledger ran its annual article on the Valedictorians of North Jersey. They interviewed and looked at transcripts, recommendations, on & on, etc, etc and decided to do a feature article on me. I, along with my family, was shocked, and we questioned the decision making process with the reporter who did the story--repeatedly…questioned friends and GC. Not necessarily out of humility, but because of the very points made above in this thread: why? </p>

<p>What we came to understand was that the whole process is entirely subjective and personality driven. From grades, to test scores, to income, to gender, to commitment to the community and the world, to rumors, to family back-story, to the way you photograph (color photo!). </p>

<p>I am sure there were higher SAT’s and better awards out there; I knew of some. Perhaps better ec’s, etc: of course there were (look at Blair Hornstein, for god’s sake). In the end, I took it for what it was, a feature STORY: not a student evaluation. That is to say, there were certainly better academic choices: I wasn’t the top Valedictorian--I was just the best story. </p>

<p>BTW, fwiw, ...as for college acceptances, I got into my first choice: eat my dust, Jonathan.</p>

348

<p>Some of us do not need a newspaper spin to just know that our kids are ALL STARS !!!! :)</p>

<p>In our case, we are just bummed we didn't get the free ride part! Now that I review this young man's credentials, I am more curious about the full scholarship too. </p>

<p>In comparison, my S looks pretty good, and he didn't get a dime. Maybe it was the research after all..........</p>

349

<p>I just skimmed the last few pages, but I have to say, that seeing people I have had mostly great respect for just go ape**** over this kid, with all the amateur "sleuthing" etc, has made me question myself, my presence here, and this whole site in general.</p>

<p>Very, very disheartening--I agree with Soozie entirely. This has gotten totally over the edge.</p>

<p>But you all go on; you seem to be having a ton of fun.</p>

350

<p>garland,</p>

<p>was that directed to me? :(</p>

351

<p>
[quote]
In our case, we are just bummed we didn't get the free ride part! Now that I review this young man's credentials, I am more curious about the full scholarship too. </p>

<p>In comparison, my S looks pretty good, and he didn't get a dime. Maybe it was the research after all..........

[/quote]
</p>

<p>sokkermom, that's the problem, people want to compare. Every year in April on the student forums, kids read other kids' stats and who got in and who didn't and some can't believe someone with lower stats got in over someone with higher stats, etc. But I believe it just fine. Not only are we not privy to every single thing in their application like the adcoms are, not privy to the rest of the applicant pool and the needs in the class they are building, but also admission to elite universities is not just a numbers game with some cut off where the top scorers "win".</p>

<p>I just don't even get the comparisons being made and the analyzing going on here. For instance, one of my kids was selected as one of 100 "scholars" at an Ivy. Another one of my kids was selected as one of 15 "Scholars" in her college within a university. Now, if I sat here and only listed the most basic stats, like are done on the chances threads and in this USA article, lots may say, "wait a minute, so and so had HIGHER SATs! So and so had X or Y or Z! Not fair! Why did this kid get selected? She doesn't have the highest this or that in the entire pool!" Well, thankfully, colleges of this level don't quite do it like that. The 1600's and perfect GPAs in sum aren't the ones necessarily selected. </p>

<p>This boy in the article was selected for some fine schools, national awards and scholarships. I think his record speaks for the fact that MORE THAN ONE place found him worthy of these selections. I trust there were good reasons, as there were for all of our kids or others like them. And even so, kids like him who were turned away by P, may have been qualified, but we all know P can't take every qualified kid. We see kids in April on here who were denied who seem outstanding. That is the nature of elite admissions. </p>

<p>The analysis of this kids' brief list of stats boggles my mind here, really it does.</p>

352

<p>Suzie:</p>

<p>I was being sarcastic. (We all know that our kids are the best.:))</p>

<p>Sokkermom</p>

353

<p>sokkermom, oh sorry, it is hard to tell on the internet! But overall, this whole thread has turned into analyzing this kids' stats and worth to get into X college and the whole comparison stuff is just so distasteful to me and is just like the competitive atmosphere that I have either read on some student forums on CC, or hear about that exists in some communities. I say this kid did pretty darn good for himself. Apparently all the people who selected him for this or that honor or admissions thought so too. I don't even understand the big deal about him! He was just an "interest" story about college admissions for top students and the paper put a kid's face on it, as he was one of their winners. He seems like a winner to me. I say, good job Jonathan!</p>

354

<p>FS, no. (10)</p>

355

<p>The whole idea of expertly packaging kids is obnoxious. Here's a bio from one of those USA Today all-stars that reeks of packaging:</p>

<p>"Founded Cultures for Youth, a nonprofit organization with chapters in Lake Forest and Jinja, Uganda, to advance cultural acceptance internationally, including cultural fairs, dance performances and a button give-away cultural exchange at the Athens Olympics; Nestle Very Best in Youth award winner and foundation vice president; National Youth Council member to Youth Service America; International Youth Volunteerism Summit delegate; Always Ready Kids mentor; graduated from a seven-year after-school Greek language and culture school; apprenticed with Byzantine art iconographers."</p>

<p>Whenever I read of a kid founding a nonprofit, rather than just working for one of the zillion existing, worthy charities, I want to retch. And what the heck is so vitally important about advancing "cultural acceptance internationally?" Is there some emerging clash between Illinois and Uganda that a cultural exchange will rectify? </p>

<p>I really shouldn't spend any more time reading this site. I've got to line up some Byzantine art iconographers for my kids to apprentice with.</p>

356

<p>StickerShock- I am retching with you. I laughed out loud imagining what my kids would say about submitting a bio like that. I can hear my D saying "Hope that kid isn't going to my school!"</p>

357

<p>The packaging of students has been going on for a few years, at least at our school. My eyes were opened 4 years ago when mine transferred from public to private. I’ve never seen so many new clubs started up (that go nowhere) or community service projects initiated (that limp along for a semester or year, but look good for the paper), all for the sake of being a “founder”. Meanwhile it’s very difficult to get participation in projects that don't benefit the individual (try getting a group out to help sandbag during a hurricane). It’s not just the parents- our school is complicit in backing students to enrich their resumes. You can probably tell that I’ve been very disappointed with the private school experience, but by the time all the warts were revealed, it was too late. My kids were on scholarship, and did well for themselves, but the nomination-based positions and honors go to families who pay full ride and contribute on top of that. I’m talking about stuff like honor council, Heisman, Hoby, team captains, etc. (I'm sure it's done differently in other schools.) Mine did well with grades, sports, fine arts, and things that were decided by student vote (in other words, things that were not under the influence of administrative decision-makers). I guess I will forever look at student resumes through a cynic’s lens.</p>

358

<p>doubleplay: The public h.s. in my town awards every subjective honor to children of politicians, Board of Ed members, and teachers. I remember being tortured by the nasal, atonal singing of the mayor's daughter in a h.s. production recently. So while your experience with privates was not a great one, I can assure you that the nepotism and favoritism can be found everywhere. </p>

<p>At least I know if I can't find any Byzantine art iconographers for my kids to work with, they can become "founders" of a h.s. Byzantine art iconographer club! And if this club's members organize a button give-away to "raise awareness'" I can nominate my kids for a variety of "kids who care" or "kids who make a difference" awards, further puffing up their resumes. Playing on the basketball team or singing in the h.s. choir is just so pedestrian.....</p>

359

<p>doubleplay - I'm getting more cynical by the day myself. </p>

<p>I just finished an article about the new diet book out by the Princeton student, who just so happens to be the daughter of a VERY well known cardiac surgeon, frequently-published bestselling author/health guru, and regular contributor to the Oprah show, Today Show and other prominent women's magazines and television shows. Her father, of course, wrote the foreword in her new book. Her high school accomplishments included being a writer at the teen version of Elle Magazine and campaigning to rehabilitate her private school's lunch menu to include healthier foods. </p>

<p>(Note...I did not mention names, I want to talk theoretically here.) </p>

<p>Whether or not she is a good writier, I don't think she would have gotten a job at Elle or a book deal, if not for her extremely famous published father. And I suspect her school might not have been as receptive to adopting a whole grain/raw food menu unless a famous cardiac surgeon from Columbia who just happens to pop up on the Today show all the time weren't standing behind her.</p>

<p>I know there are those who think this is okay....why shouldn't she follow her her parent's footsteps. But I have a problem with the 'nepotistic opportunity' and 'original concept' aspect of it.</p>

<p>Followup: This author will be getting the full treatment, appearing on the network and cable morning shows in September.</p>

360

<p>gosh, I am getting old, jaded and more cynical myself :rolleyes:. I'll buy you a drink on SA :)</p>

<p>just read one of the book reviews for the book</p>

<p>Daughter of bestselling cardiologist , the doctor's daughter struggled with weight as a teen. Now a Princeton sophomore, she offers a range of advice for college girls hoping to sidestep the "Freshman 15." Those late-night study binges, tailgating and sports events, parties, TV watching and heavy talks can lead even clever Ivy Leaguers down the road to weight gain. **No doubt inspired by her dad (who penned the introduction), **daughter offers an eight-step program that advocates sensible, healthful eating, exercise and vitamin use. While warning against the pitfalls of high-calorie foods like alcohol, full-fat cheese and simple carbs, she okays coffee in moderation, bread dipped in olive oil, and chocolate. Balance is crucial, doctor's daughter notes, pointing out that one night of partying won't spoil everything if it's followed by healthy eating the next day. Punctuating her text with practical tips (stock up on wholesome snacks such as almonds and veggies before snuggling in for a study marathon, the author addresses her female peers in a breezy, conversational style.</p>

<p>another article:</p>

<p>Doctor's Daughter didn't just lose weight her first year of college, she wrote a book about it. The Princeton University student's book, is coming out Sept. 6, just in time for the new crop of students heading into the pizza-munching, beer-swilling world of higher education. </p>

<p>Paperback tells how the student from Cliffside Park shed 10 pounds her first year at Princeton, instead of gaining the classic "freshman 15." </p>

<p>*Of course, it helped that she was able to get advice from her dad - a cardiac surgeon and best-selling health author who's written the foreword to her book. *</p>

<p>As Doctor's Daughter explains it, she was able to put herself on a new path in college, working with her dad, Doctor, to apply nutritional knowledge to lose the pounds.</p>

<p>Docotr's Daughter also has two grandfathers who are cardiac surgeons and a grandmother who's a nutritional adviser.</p>

<p>another article states:</p>

<p>**the book's publisher learned about Doctor's Daughter through her father, who happens to be a colleague of publisher's husband husband (a physician) Publisher told Doctor about Publishing house's success with other books on teen health, Doctor told publisher about the book his daughter was writing, and a publishing contract was signed *<a href="that%20is,%20once%20Doctors%20daughter%20turned%2018—she%20was%2017%20when%20she%20began%20writing%20the%20book">/i</a>.</p>