Family Gets Lesson in Admissions

Parents Forum
461

<p>marite, I don't think most teachers are cognizant of what is on the SAT Subject Tests in courses they teach, much less concerned that they cover it. Even my D's AP teachers (except Calc AB) made little effort to cover the material they knew would be tested and knew they should cover. ( I will bet dollars to donuts only 1 kid at D's school took even a single SAT Subject Test, and it wasn't D. )</p>

<p>On a more general topic, nobody is listening to anybody on this thread anymore. I post something and I hear from people who are repeating what I said 30 pages ago like they were my instructors in the ways of the world. Infuriating and exasperating. Sometimes I think people skim till they think that the poster is talking ill about them or their kid, and then we get these "No the heck, not. My kid isn't like that" posts. I feel it, too.</p>

<p>Everytime someone talks about their "accomplished" kids, someone else wants to say "Let's match'em up". Doesn't matter if that's intel, ivy, whatever. Everybody's defensive, and nobody thinks they are offensive - but we are , unintentionally , maybe. But we are. </p>

<p>The board as a whole has some of this crap but this thread in particular is bringing it out in dump truck loads. It just keeps happening. Over and over. Until and unless we can get over that, this discussion is going nowhere.</p>

462

<p>I have to agree with garland on the SAT prepping issue and being successful in college admissions. DS always considered standardized testing a necessary evil and would never have considered taking a prep course. Hooray-we just saved $750 honey!! His prep consisted of reviewing the 12 page(?) CB booklet which was mailed to the house after he applied! He did fine both on the test(1450?) and in admissions. Could he have raised the score into the 1500+ stratosphere? Maybe. Maybe not></p>

<p>However I think the real benefit is now being realized as a college junior. Because he was evaluated by adcoms based on his native abilities(as far as the SAT I can measure such a thing), instead of being in the top quartile of classmates he is more likely to be in the top decile and has had achieved unexpected academic success thus far. He is seeing what it is like being the big fish and is enjoying it a lot!!!</p>

<p>I do disagree with marite a bit on needing to spend some "significant'(?) time familiarizing oneself with the test. Many students here took the SAT I in 7th grade for CTY, essentially every one took the PSAT in 10th grade, and most took the test sometime junior year. After all this test taking I doubt any of our students' needed any familiarization with it. SAT 2's are a different animal but DS balked at taking any of them whatsoever!!!!! Perhaps this was what marite was referring to and if so I would agree that familiarization would be a good thing.</p>

<p>Having gone through the entire application/admissions process and having watched DS complete 2 years of college, I think there is much to be said for his very low keyed approach to the whole thing. If it were necessary to rate, his packaging consisted was comparable to a crumpled paper bag. But he took classes which he wanted to take in hs, participated in what clubs, sports and activities interested him, and made certain that ample time was left for friends and ska band which regrouped this summer for a week to record an EP cd.</p>

463

<p>garland's post and the responses (459 - Backfin and 460- garland) are a perfect examples of the phenomenon I was talking about. Although they are a bit more direct :eek: ;)</p>

464

<p>The USA article had mom and dad along with their son in a picture. Good for them for taking an active interest. The media and universities have named us. They call us helicopter parents. Let us think of a better name to fight back.</p>

465

<p>Curmudgeon--I know what you mean, and I've seen and participated in plenty defensive exchanges (though I really do try not to be offensive). In this case, though, I know I am treading on thin ice, and I'm happy to have a chance to qualify what I said to make it clear what I didn't mean to say. ( Is that at all clear?:))</p>

466

<p>Did not mean to be offensive, and was not defending my kid - I was defending....studying! If you convince me studying for the SAT is not necessary how can I convince him it is!!! (don't know how to do smileys)</p>

467

<p>Backfin-good question. But deciding not to try to convince them led to a lot less stress around my house!</p>

<p>Smilies: A smily face is a colon and a close parentheses. If that doesn't work, go to "advanced" and scroll to the very bottom to make sure that "smilies" are "on." You can also click on "smilies" to get tips on how to make different ones.</p>

<p>Have fun!</p>

<p>PS--I'm a teacher, I adore studying. It's just a matter of "what" is being studied.</p>

<p>I think my kid's intellectual lives were the studying necessary for the SAT 1s.</p>

468

<p>backfin (and garland, I think you know) , I promise I wasn't picking on y'all. It was just that the timing was perfect for illustrative purposes. :)</p>

469

<p>Always glad to be of service. :)</p>

470

<p>Y'all were watermelons and I, for a moment, was Gallagher. ;)</p>

471

<p>^^Garland, your post ("mutually assured destruction") helped me put my finger on a lot of what bothers me about the gaming and one-upmanship of scholastic competitions. Well said. </p>

<p>It cannot be overstated how important casual exposure to potential opportunities for success contributes to that success. The kids who never get, for whatever reason, that exposure are never in the race to begin with. That many of these "pinnacle" awards at the HS level require extraordinary time and financial resources (on the part of many other than the student him/herself) cannot be overstated. Recognizing that does tend to cheapen the worth of the accolades. </p>

<p>Truth is, the field on which these competitive HS awards are played out is narrow to begin with, nevermind the talent level of the individual players. Not everyone with comparable talent gets the chance to play. Not even everyone can purchase a ticket at the gate.</p>

<p>The same complimentary things--devotion, passion, commitment, high ideals, talent, singleminded pursuit--can be said about kids who earn Eagle Scout as has been said on this thread about USA Today, Intel, etc. winners. (The boy in the original article was one IIRC, but the discussion here so far has been on his scientific research and SATs.) But where's the glory in ascending the scouting pinnacle? No one earns $100,000, gets his name publicized in a national newspaper, or saunters into Princeton for that. Wonder what would happen to scouting if they did.</p>

<p>In the end, what does it really matter? Either these "stars" will go on to fulfill their precocious promise or not. I cannot believe that there's some talented kid out there whose destiny hinges on that fork in the road at the intersection of Prize Pkwy. and Left Behind Ln.</p>

<p>(Disclaimer: Curmudgeon, I read almost every post in this thread. I swear! Have even attended the Houston Rodeo back in the day when Red Adair was buying those prize-winning 4H steers. :) So forthwith are my biases. I'm very familiar with Great Neck of the sidebar in the original article, having attended a neighboring HS which has a long track record of Intel success stories. Also, our family knows a student named to a prior USA Today All-USA Academic First Team. As for my own kids... neither sought, or received, any academic coaching or packaging from their parents who are not cattle breeders, university professors, or members of the carelessly wealthy class. We still like to think they turned out okay despite our limitations and their lack of prestigious national HS awards. ;) )</p>

472

<p>My D will be doing some "prep" for the upcoming SAT- she hasn't done the kind of math on the test for a very long time- Calculas for a year does not prepare you for the SAT math section, and it is very easy to forget the tricks, the old formulas, etc</p>

<p>I think it is perfectly okay to prep for the math, to remind a student of things they learned some tme back</p>

473

<p>Mudder-- I disagree about your point re:Eagle Scouts. It's not a common thing where I live (it may be where you live) and so the kids who end up as Eagles are really exceptional kids on a lot of levels-- not always the academic superstars, but I can recall a couple of them in past years who were and their college admissions reflected that. </p>

<p>If you live in a place where a lot of the boys who start as cubs end up as Eagles the presumption is most likely that it doesn't take much to get there (or that there's so much communal support it's almost a given....) In a place where a kid really needs to show phenomenal dedication and leadership skills to get there, and where the drop off rate in scouting is huge as the kids enter middle school, I think adcoms see that there's more involved than going to meetings and getting badges and whatever.</p>

<p>Our town had an Eagle last year..... a solid student but not an academic powerhouse, and he ended up at West Point after sorting through a host of acceptances, many of which (if you believe his mom) were quite significant reaches based on his stats alone, and most of which his GC felt would be auto-rejects. West Point was his most attractive financial option, and after some consideration, he also realized would be the kind of environment he'd need to stay focused academically. Not a choice every kid would make..... but seems right for him.</p>

<p>So-- I think any truly distinguishing accomplishment can set a kid apart from the pack in the admissions process. This kid wouldn't have ended up as Intel finalist even with a Nobel prize winning physicist strapped to his leg.... but his parents helped him find his own arena for success and I'm sure they'll continue to do that. (not a military family by the way... so this was a hard decision for everyone).</p>

<p>Anyway, my point is that the wierd and anomolous makes for good headlines, but top colleges around the country are admitting smart, focused, accomplished kids every single year even if those kids bio's don't sell newspapers.</p>

474

<p>Mudder's_Mudder, great post!</p>

475

<p>Hmm - just trying to get they lay of the land and figure out how a couple of hours spent with CB "blue book" is a form of mutually assured destruction and fits in the packaging category. Sorry to be disagreeable.</p>

476

<p>BAckfin--I didn't say anything about packaging, did I?</p>

<p>And I guess by prepping, I didn't suppose (and don't think that's what was discussed here) it normally just means a couple hours with CB "blue book." (which is not really studying.)</p>

<p>Curmudgeon--ayup. What you said.</p>

477

<p>I guess I thought the thread was about packaging?</p>

478

<p>Well, it's meandered all over the place, but I was commenting on a specific message in the post I quoted only.</p>

479

<p>
[quote]
If Johnny is weak in math, Johnny will get a math tutor. Cambodian parents, she claimed, concentrate on finding what they think is their child's essence; once they've found it, they nurture it for all they're worth. So if Johnny is weak in math but excels at sports, he'll get all the support they can give him in sports, and he is allowed to neglect math.[\quote]</p>

<p>I had the hardest time convincing anyone at school that if you nurtured my son in math and computers it gave him the energy and happiness to face the subjects he was less adept at. I could kiss his third grade teacher who encourage him to write by designing a text base computer game and by asking him to document his computer programs as part of his journaling.</p>

480

<p>Slash the other way...:)</p>