feeling the asian pressure

Pre-College Issues High School Life
41

<p>If you guys think what your going through is bad, then you need to step back and look at the lives of other kids. Trying being a black female and constantly having to battle negative stereotypes. I understand that Asian children have their stereotypes. They are expected to do well in school and be academic super stars. I have Asian friends who are always telling me that their sick and tired of people coming up to them and saying why aren't they all-A's students. However, at least you guys have somewhat positive stereotypes. As a Haitian-American who is a first-generation born American, I'm not expected to be an all-A's student or aspire to go to Harvard. In fact, some would consider a community college or state school a prime candidate for kids like me. Although there are latino and black kids who do exceptionally well in school, the odds are always against them and they're not expected to succeed as Asian or Indian(not Native-American) kids. I'm not racist and have NO problem with Asian children, some of them are my best friends. But, think about this:</p>

<p>When y'all attend those good colleges, at least you know your not alone. You have models who have went before you or are with you going through the same emotions as you are. You have people who resemble you and are succeeding in life, whether they are aspiring doctors, lawyers, CEOs, professors, researchers, engineerers, writers, business owners. Yes, you are pressured to live up to those people, but people expect positive outcomes from y'all not negative ones. If I am to attend a college, such as Princeton, I am alone. I have very few models who have succeeded in life to look to, and even less people who are experiencing the same emotions as I am to talk to. People automatically consider Asians to be smart. You have the benefit of the doubt. I and other Black and Latino students don't.</p>

42

<p>--However, at least you guys have somewhat positive stereotypes.
I don't quite get how the stereotype that "Asians do well only because their parents drive them to do it" is positive</p>

<p>--People automatically consider Asians to be smart.
change "smart" into "bookworms" and you'll be closer to the truth</p>

<p>--You have the benefit of the doubt. I and other Black and Latino students don't.
what do you call "affirmative action"?</p>

<p>--I have very few models who have succeeded in life to look to
Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Tiger Woods...</p>

<p>Everyone thinks everyone else has such a great life...truth is, we all have our problems, and they're all just as important/difficult as everyone else's...</p>

<p>I think this thread was just meant for catharsis</p>

43

<p>Tanonev, you argued your opinions eloquently. Well put.</p>

44

<p>Myway:
“To my asian "homegirls," did you guys enjoy or at least feel like you could relate to some of the stories in the Joy Luck Club? (especially the one about Winnifred/Jan I think their names were)</p>

<p>Another thing I've noticed is that the Asian culture seems to fear/frown upon failure more so than other cultures. While my own family isn't like this, I've observed it in a lot of others and was wondering if you guys find that observation valid.”</p>

<p>I never read any of Amy Tan's novel, or much of any Asian American literature. I find that they’re often times too depressing (or humorous depending on which way you view it) in the fact that they sort of a reflection of my life. And I think the stories of my life are an enough “read”, tahnk you very much ;).
And yes, Asian culture does seem to “fear/frown upon failure more so than other”, at least from an overall perspective. It’s not a good thing and it’s not a bad thing either, depending on how you look at it too. </p>

<p>“You're genuinely afraid of your sats, or your gpa, or a lack of extracurriculars, when the truth is THEY DON'T MATTER!”</p>

<p>It was good that you placed “or” instead of “and” because I would have been under the impression that you’re negligent of them all, and I wouldn’t say it would be a dandy argument for you. And the part that “they don’t matter”, only tells us that you’re being provincial. </p>

<p>Private_joker,
I do understand your implications, but the asian “expectations” may be something positive in your view, but the sweat and toil that paves the way to that stereotype is hardly so. </p>

<p>And everyone’s alone. you were born alone (unless you’re a twin, cuz I am!) and you’ll die alone. I certainly don’t think anyone is going to hold my hands for the rest of my life nor do I want to. Really, we need to instill a sense of security and independence here.</p>

<p>And the only role models I have or look up to is my parents. And they’re Not that successful (which goes to show that quality not quantity (amt of money made) can apply to certain people). I’m also under the impression that you’re labeling who our models are to within cultures, when in truth, it doesn't matter. What's relevant is intrinsic motivation. ;)</p>

45

<p>i havent visited this thread in awhile, but im surprised at the number of replies.</p>

<p>my cousin from mit just left for home...and wow. im so impressed with her. im so impressed at how she can balance humility and pride. im so impressed at how real she is. im so impressed how confident she is.</p>

<p>and ive realized that me thinking of myself as an "asian female/minority" only detracts from my confidence. no more of this. im me, just like anyone else. i'll try really hard to live up to that from now on</p>

46

<p>from my observation, the great emphasis on education and safe-success that asian parents(utterly 1st or 1.5th generations) have is largely due to two facts ; still developing home-country(in general) and hardships they've gone through as immigrants.</p>

<p>after all, i think it is good and bad. and in a way, these circumstance can be developed into very postivitive "thing". So good for you :D</p>

47

<p>It is a natural cycle. Eventually, the superior AZN race will become the majority, and the rest of the world will begin to work harder than us. Stop thinking of us as AZN, and as ordinary humans. By stereotyping azn's, you are undermining the effort they put into school, etc. Most do it because they want to, not because it comes naturally.</p>

48

<p>Why do URM's affect how colleges admit students?</p>

<p>People have said this makes it a lot harder for Asians to get into top colleges vs. other races because of URM's.
So if you are applying to a top college, do you leave your race blank or what?</p>

49

<p>"It was good that you placed “or” instead of “and” because I would have been under the impression that you’re negligent of them all, and I wouldn’t say it would be a dandy argument for you. And the part that “they don’t matter”, only tells us that you’re being provincial. "</p>

<p>The sentence was originally structured differently. When I deleted I forgot to change everything... it's a strong argument that's based on grammar.</p>

<p>The fact is that none of them really matter. You're searching in the wrong places for enlightenment.</p>

50

<p>the colleges can figure out the race easily w/o our volunteer answers. btw i put it down since that's where i came from, and that's who i am.</p>

<p>and i believe they dont really do anything 'against' asian only because of it's asian. (maybe they do slightly unconsciously)
i think the fact that better-in-numbers asians are often rejected at top-tier schools do more with a lack of identity in a mass. and if there is, they'd be similar to a mass (hopely you know what i am saying).</p>

<p>it's just how the american education authorities have put the great emphasis on well-rounded, unique students. they certainly dont want to have 1000 identical twins(not in race, but in identity). and i respect that. the diversity.</p>

<p>and understanding of URM/AA has to be as clear and specific as possible, since each schools has different policy, and just thinking the URM adventage as a hook for every URMs at every schools are too ignorant.</p>

51

<p>funny thing is I'm probly one of the dumber kids in hte family but i found out this summer that I'm supposed to have a better shot at a "good college". Well that's what my cousin said (cuz he thinks grades and rankings are measures of academic excellence). I wonder what he smokes :-P</p>

<p>think you made some really good points Private_joker</p>

52

<p>maybe this is just me but do you guys notice how some asian parents love to put down their kids? It's like instead of positive encourage they like to say all this negative stuff thinking it's like reverse psychology of something. Like if i tell my mom i want to be able to fluently speak 5 leanguages, she'll turn around and be like " what makes you think you can do that, you think you smart or something, you can't even keep your room clean, look at how clean my friend's daughter's room is, its so neat, you can't do anything in life,you can't even clean up yoru room". It's so annoying. Reminds me of Waverly and her mother from the Joy Luck Club.</p>

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<p>Thanks vtran31. I didn't mean to offend anyone as tanonev, saysua, and Future'MD implied. I was merely trying to give another perspective into this issue. Asian kids didn't have it any easier than Blacks and Latinos. Blacks and Latino's didn't have it any easier than Native Americans. I agree with tanonev. Everyone had their own problems. However, a person needs to analyze another group's problems in order to get a clearer view of their own. </p>

<p>Yes, there was affirmative action. But there are two problems that come with it.
Number 1: sometimes people discredit your achievements when you are accepted into a good college or at a good job. They think your only their because of your race and not of your own merit.
Number 2: Affirmative action has a set limit to the number of applicants that is accepted through it. Sometimes, when colleges are satisfied with the number of minorities they've accepted, they reject all the rest even though they might be stronger applicants than the people who were accepted. Harvard might say, "Well, we've already accepted a hundred or more minority students. We think that's enough to guarantee a racially diverse student body." As a result, they reject everyone else. </p>

<p>Yes, Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Tiger Woods, and others were models of people who had succeeded in life. But, that wasn't what I meant. I meant people who had succeeded in my community. I and others cannot relate to these celebrities. They were people who were known to us through the media. All we knew about them was what their public images revealed about them. I agreed, saysua, my parents were my models. But, looking at the statistics, I was an exception. Many children without mothers, fathers, or both were born each day and they didn't have reliable family to take care of them. I had a 11-year-old cousin who hadn't talked to his father ever since he was five or six. I wasn't trying to evoke pitty or anything. </p>

<p>O.k, your parents drove you to succeed. They expected a lot from you. I realized that kind of pressure was tough. I was sorry for not elaborating more when I wrote "somewhat positive stereotypes." Usually, when you walk into Walmart or some other store, the service merchandise people were not watching youf every move because they thought you would steel something. Consider these stereotypes: </p>

<p>1.) Your not expected to graduate high school because either you're pregnant, a mother, or your in jail.<br>
2.) If you do graduate high school and attend college, then it probably won't be one of the decent colleges out there.
3.) If you attend a good college or any college, then you have a 50% chance of graduating with a degree, according to statistics. You dropping out could have resulted in the poor preperation you recieved in high school. </p>

<p>Bookworms or not, people thought you were well-read. Whether that was a good thing or not that was left to be decided by the individual. </p>

<p>Also, myway, I was not labeling people who were within our cultures as role models. Simply put, I was labeling people who resembled us not, physically, but in the struggles they went through and the dreams they strived to achieve amid these struggles. </p>

<p>As I wrote before, I was sorry if what I wrote implied that some people had a harder time in life than others. In fact, I meant the complete opposite. Reading these posts I saw how hard it was to have certain expectations put on you. When I wrote my previous post, I wasn't trying to evoke pitty and belittle the troubles of others. I was attempting to give a new perspective on huge issue: stereotyping and forced-upon expectations by others who had no right to do so. Again, I wasn't trying to insult or offend anyone in anyway.</p>

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<p>"Yes, there was affirmative action. But there are two problems that come with it.
Number 1...
Number 2..."</p>

<p>Private_Joker, these arguments are not valid in that no university that I know of sets quotas for the incoming class. If you can, present evidence that this is happening and I won't speak, but until you do present evidence, this argument is invalid. The fact is that no such evidence WILL exist because if there WAS evidence that colleges were setting quotas, there would be many lawsuits in our courts system.</p>

<p>You also present the sterotype for Blacks and Latinos growing up in America today. This is not true at all - at my school, a number of Black and Latino students are doing better than their White and Asian peers. In fact, they are achieving higher GPAs, better EC's and higher SAT scores. And the reason? They put effort. Instead of complaining about how unfair sterotypes, you can beat those sterotypes by putting effort into your work and proving others wrong. You simply assume that Asians don't have sterotypes, but we do. We are ASSUMED to be always smart and superior academically to others. This places a heavy burden on us to succeed in life, and if we fail, we are considered one of the lowest in our society.</p>

<p>In conclusion, your Affirmative Action argument and sterotype arguments aren't valid upon closer examination. As stated before, each person has their own set of problems, but even in your last post, you seem to persist that Blacks and Latinos have the worst situation - this isn't true at all.</p>

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<p>from my perspective asian parents expect a lot from their children, because they have this family thing. your family has to thrive. in most asian cultures there are holidays or ceremonies where people celebrate their ancestors and pray for good luck. our family is not an exception. my dad works for the Korean government in the ministry of commerce. he tells me in order for a family to be determined as successful is to have three consecutive generation of the family succeed.
i also think they want their children to achieve somethings that they haven't been able to. my dad was really smart in my family, although he only received education in Korea. he expects me to go to a IVY school, since i have more opportunity than he had. if i do not get in, it means that i didn't try hard, since he got in the best college in Korea, when our family went bankrupt, and my grandmother had to open a restraunt for our basic needs.
i was quite surprised at my mother's response today.i told my mom that i wanted to apply COLUMBIA for ED next year( i'm a junior). she was astonished. she expected me to apply to PHYS. my maternal relatives are pretty much successful in Korea. their sons and daughters have gone to the best colleges in Korea. so i am expected to not just get into IVYS but Harvard, Yale or Princeton. they mostly don't even know the other IVIES, and think they are kind of shabby compared to PHYS.
Although i do not face deragatory stereotypes as private_joker said, i feel a lot of pressure on me. i'm like suppose to be the bright lantern of the orient world like Tagore said. it is not that i do not believe in myself, but it is that my success will be regarded as a thing that was expected.
although my parents said that i could do whatever i want as my profession, they still recommend jobs that prioritize money or honor. i as an idealist want to study history or science. however, in my culture this field is like for people who weren't successful with the easy money or honor making jobs
this derived from history i think. most northeastern countries including mine have had a lot of respect to government officials. being part of the government was a dream that a lot of people had in my country in the past and present.
the reason people want their children to have jobs that can provide stable income is because of the history of poverty. in most asian countries, the generation that were born in the 50's and 60's went through a lot of adversity. thus they want the next generation to be immune to poverty.
i am kind of disappointed at these views, since asians have turned more materialistic than the westerners over such a short period of time.
i hope that some day these people will realize that your knowledge, money, and fame are just superficial and stop pressuring their children.</p>

56

<p>"money or honor"</p>

<p>Well put. But I think RESPECT is the better world. My dad talks about how I should get a job that gets me respect, like a professor or a lawyer.
I guess artists are dirt?
Koreans are insane. (I am one)
BUT, I know we'll do the same thing to our children. MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (I see my child suffer! Suffer like me!)</p>

57

<p>i'm lucky in that my parents don't really care where i go, ivy or not. i've been wanting to go to princeton since i was in middle school, so my mom was very disappointed when i decided to graduate early, which wrecked my chances at any of the ivies. then my dad wanted me to go to mit, that was also kinda ruined, although i probably wouldn't have been accepted even if i stayed four years. but i did what was best for me, and it took them a while, but they came to support my decision. so, i'm just going to a simple but good public university, out of state, so we're a bit short on money. well, then comes my grandmother who agreed to help pay for college if i needed it, only thing is, since i'm not going somewhere prestigious enough, she probably won't help me.</p>

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<p>BAHH i know my ummah is always saying how come your not smart like your other asian friends. Hey Jeparle have you ever gotten the old " in korea when i was your age, i had to wash my clothes in a river....etc and how do you act? you dont even work hard in highschool" my ummah always says that crap and i feel soo guilty so i know exactly where your coming from</p>

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<p>Ehh... my whole school is full of kids with those kind of families. Somethimes you go up to them and say "Why are you studying so much?" and they say "So I don't get beaten" (Can't tell if they are joking or not) Our school's mostly Asian, but when they describe their parents I hear each time about how cruel and strict they are. So of course, days like this I say: Thank goodness I am blonde and no one expects me to do anything. So anyhoo. sI say this: while at school, slack off, goof off and such. At home, study insanely. This is the best advice I've ever heard, trust me it works.</p>

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<p>There are no group problems for people our age, only individual problems. Black guys, if anything, are more likely to be better treated than most in my school. If they decide to be dumb, that's an individual decision. No one has it easier than anyone else individually.</p>