<p>What does anyone know about females applying to MIT? What is the admissions process like? Also, any details on the female experience there as a student. Thanks</p>
<p>The female experience at MIT is very much like the male experience at MIT. I wrote a blog entry on the subject once (here</a>), but I never felt that being female at MIT was a big deal.</p>
<p>In admissions, fewer women than men apply, but the admitted class is usually pretty close to 50/50. The admissions office's stand on this is that female applicants to MIT are more self-selected than male applicants, and therefore are more likely to be admitted. There is not, however, any different admissions process for women vs. men.</p>
<p>Math and science are my passions but talking about English and social studies, I'm not very far from a maimed monkey :D. Anyone has any idea of approximately how much chance I have to be accepted for MIT?</p>
<p>Sorry that I did not respond. I did not get e-mail notifications of postings to either of the threads I started yesterday. Must have done something wrong.</p>
<p>MollieBatMIT – Thanks for responding to my post. I guess though it was very broad/vague but I think I was thinking that that would bring in a greater breadth of responses. I’ll get a little more specific to my case. DD is a junior and has been talking neuroscience for almost a year now. We have been looking at a wide range schools from small LA, to tech, to large, etc. This is in part because D was not yet sure what “feel” she was looking for (we are still looking for this). Have visited 5 schools to date with that major in mind with many more to come (MIT being on that original list). I have been bothering D for years to look at engineering as an options (mother engineer degree, brother engineer, father ran/owned aerospace manufacturing company). Long story short upon seeing the description of the Bioengineering degree at MIT with the neuroscience track, she stated “that is what I have been talking about for two years”. That was exciting until we found out that the MIT degree is very unique to that school and it is hard to find other schools (at least in the Northeast) with a similar blend of courses. We are now still looking at schools due to neuroscience and also looking at schools for BME (and similar). I am excited that she has found something exciting to her but I am stressed on her behalf because really what are the odds that she will be able to pull off getting in. Even if she got in, will I as her parent regret allowing her to undertake the academic stress of being at MIT. We are going to visit next week over April vacation.</p>
<p>Any as for my questions in my OP, are the admissions standards any different for females vs males given that acceptance percentages are different?</p>
<p>As for the female experience, it’s funny because I was not thinking about academic discrimination etc but more the social dynamic. When my sun got into UPenn and we revisited, a student there (a friend’s son) took us around. He mentioned to us the competitive nature of the students and also how the males and females at UPenn did not like/date each other. We have no idea if it is true but it turned my son off completely and turned them down.</p>
<p>Any comments?</p>
<p>Well, I married one of my fellow MIT students, so at least from my perspective, males and females at MIT get along pretty well. :) </p>
<p>
[quote]
Any as for my questions in my OP, are the admissions standards any different for females vs males given that acceptance percentages are different?
[/quote]
There's not a clear answer to this question. As I said earlier, the admissions office's position is that female applicants are more qualified on average than male applicants, and this is supported by the fact that female MIT students graduate at higher rates and with higher GPAs than male MIT students.</p>
<p>Most people, however, see the higher admit rate of females vs. males and conclude that it's easier for women to get in. At any rate, it's not easy for anybody to get into MIT.</p>
<p>Thanks for clarifying and I had not understood the meaning of self-selecting. I appreciate your insights.</p>
<p>PS My niece is marrying an MIT grad May '09.</p>
<p>Oh, sorry -- by "self-selecting", I mean that women who apply to MIT are apparently more likely to be highly qualified in the first place than men who apply. It seems that prospective female students are likely to apply to MIT only if they're serious about science or engineering in the first place, whereas a larger percentage of male applicants are applying with below-average qualifications (presumably just to see if they can get in).</p>
<p>Congrats to your niece! I happen to like MIT boys -- mine is very intelligent and fun to talk with, and also quite handy around the house. ;)</p>
<p>MollieBatMIT-To take this analysis further, on the MIT site for 2007, 25% - 75% ranges for CR were 670 – 770 and math were 720 – 800. Are you meaning that a large percentage of male applicants were not even in this range? Or just that a large percentage of the male applicants were at the lower end? You mentioned below-average, but how below? And as for females, are you meaning that most female applicants are not “below average”; ei CR > 720 and math > 760? If that IS the case, then we have a long way to go. </p>
<p>D first time scores were only CR 680 and Math 710, WR 690 but has BIO 780. Chem and Math to be taken later this year. Chem should end up well into 700’s. Math we have yet to evaluate. She will take ACT in Sept and 2nd round of SAT in OCT. Can’t utilize the May SAT test date due to an out of state Marching Band competition. She should end the year with a rank of 1:180 at a Good/Very Good public high school. Her EC’s include 7 hours dance/week (ballet, point, jazz, tap), marching band (assistant drum major 07-08 and drum major 08-09), concert band, jazz band, skiier. She is Caucasian – good or bad, American, speaks English, well educated parents, no legacy. I’m guessing those are all against her. Her recommendations, if they reflect how these teachers speak about D, should be fabulous. Any thoughts on how this data compares to female applicants? Are we completely wasting our time.</p>
<p>Niece's fiance finished Masters EECS '07. They've dated since her freshman year at Brandies (4 1/2 years).</p>
<p>780 on the SAT II Bio is excellent. It's quite a bit better than I did on that test back in the day. :) If Chem is in the 700s, that is also a good score.</p>
<p>I'm not a huge fan of retaking in general, but if I were your D, I'd try to get her math score up. It's not horrible, but as you saw, it would put her in the bottom quartile, which won't help. It won't remove her from contention either, but she might as well try to get solidly in the middle 50% range.</p>
<p>According to people in Admissions that I have talked to personally, male applicants are <em>much</em> more likely than female applicants to be in the bottom 60% of their class. Take that for what you will.</p>
<p>
[quote]
She is Caucasian – good or bad, American, speaks English, well educated parents, no legacy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Being American actually works in her favor - there's an upper limit on the number of internationals accepted. Americans are more than twice as likely to be accepted as internationals.</p>
<p>I had all of these too, except for "no legacy". Being a legacy actually doesn't help you at MIT. They are very adamant about that. The only thing that it gets you is that the dean will read your application personally if you are going to be rejected. This is mostly so that when the irate parents call and complain that somebody made a mistake, the dean can say that he read it himself. Admissions officers do disagree sometimes, and it is possible that the dean will disagree and reverse the decision, but from what I have been told this almost never happens.</p>
<p>Her ECs seem good. It would help if she had some demonstrated interest in the field that she wanted to study, but she can compensate for this in other ways (essays, etc). Mollie can correct me if I'm wrong, but I vaguely remember a story that she told where she demonstrated her interest in bio to MIT by sending them a list of all the college-and-above-level bio textbooks that she had read, with commentary. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wrote a blog entry on the subject once (here), but I never felt that being female at MIT was a big deal.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This was my experience too...that it's more of a big deal on this board than it is in the actual student body. I suspect that it depends to some extent on factors like where you live/hang out. I certainly personally encountered at least one living group that I thought had problematic views of women, though I gather from someone who has been there extensively and quite a bit more recently that the culture has changed in that regard.</p>
<p>In the interest of fairness, I will say that this was not the experience of someone I know who was in what was at the time (it isn't anymore, at the undergrad level) a very male-dominated major. She said that she had some problems with a few sexist TAs and fellow students. This is someone whose judgment I trust. She is a few years older than me (class of '04 vs class of '07), so this could be a generational thing, where things got better in the intervening years (I was in a female-dominated major, but I took a bunch of classes in male-dominated majors), or it could even be an artifact of people resenting how the demographics of that major were changing (it is now 41% female, and was less than 20% female when I was a freshman).</p>
<p>MIT is always a reach, even for USAMO qualifiers. I agree with what the others have said about the need to try to bring up the SAT scores. Still, shouldn't your daughter have a "reach" school among those to which she applies?</p>
<p>Jessiehl - Read the note to D and she agreed with your position on needing to raise math score for MIT (or course then selective LA's she is fine on math and must raise CR - can't win).</p>
<p>"According to people in Admissions that I have talked to personally, male applicants are <em>much</em> more likely than female applicants to be in the bottom 60% of their class. Take that for what you will."</p>
<p>I am slightly confused. I can interpret this one a couple ways. Are you meaning that male applicants are more likely to make up the bottom 60% of an incoming class? (sorry I don;t know how to make the grey quote box)</p>
<p>Thanks for the input on the ED's. D has read the advice and now it is her's to keep in mind.</p>
<p>Thanks for your observations on the female experiences at MIT.</p>
<p>CALAlum- Every student should have there reach schools. Unfortunately D has too many reach school on her list at this time but it is still very early. We have the "crazy reach", the "reach reach" and the "logical reach", then the "should get in" and the "safeties".</p>
<p>"What does anyone know about females applying to MIT?"</p>
<p>They are ugly.</p>
<p>(just kidding)</p>
<p>Collegekid12 - That would be a problem for D. She is very pretty. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am slightly confused. I can interpret this one a couple ways. Are you meaning that male applicants are more likely to make up the bottom 60% of an incoming class?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sorry, I should have clarified that. Their high school class. Male applicants are much more likely to have been in the bottom 60% of their high school class.</p>
<p>Wow! That was actually what it sounded like you were saying but it just sounded hard believe. That is why I was looking for other interpretations. I can't imagine any student, male or female, that is in their bottom 60% of their class, applying to MIT.</p>
<p>^^ Boys tend to be more confident about their success. If you log on to the Google Scholar website, which searches for academic publications, and enter the search term "male and female confidence in science" you will find dozens of research articles about this phenomenon. Thus, a male with borderline or low statistics might well apply to MIT, whereas a female might not. In fact, I believe that you and your daughter represent a case of this phenomenon, since you have expressed some doubts here about whether it's even worthwhile to apply. Just my two cents!</p>
<p>
[quote]
mollieb writes: There's not a clear answer to this question. As I said earlier, the admissions office's position is that female applicants are more qualified on average than male applicants, and this is supported by the fact that female MIT students graduate at higher rates and with higher GPAs than male MIT students.</p>
<p>Most people, however, see the higher admit rate of females vs. males and conclude that it's easier for women to get in. At any rate, it's not easy for anybody to get into MIT.
[/quote]
If most people are concluding that, then they'd be wrong (or haven't thought out the consequences of their belief.) </p>
<p>Applicants can be ranked in order of strength. Suppose it was true that it's easier for women to get in. At the cutoff where they stopped accepting men they'd keep on accepting women with lower qualifications, or else "easier" has no meaning. The lesser qualified women would under-perform compared to the men since every admitted male was more qualified. The upshot is someone who believes it is easier for women to get in must also expect women to graduate at lower rates and probably have a lower average GPA. But in fact just the opposite occurs.</p>
<p>If anything, the evidence shows that as things stand today it is harder for women to gain admission to MIT since women as a group outperform men on average!!</p>
<p>^^That would also be incorrect. Average GPAs don't tell you much unless they are within major. Even then, the famous self-selection could obscure meaning. (For example, consider the case if the only girl willing to major in physics was the one that made it to the USAPHo team.) Some majors are harder than others to get a high GPA. Aerospace engineering is harder to get a higher GPA than cognitive science or management. Statistics can tell you anything you want.</p>
<p>If what Mollie asserts is really true that admissions is identical for males and females, then MIT should simply come out and say that they do not practice AA for girls. That would clear up the confusion.</p>
<p>^^^ hence the word "probably" with reference to GPA. There is no a priori reason to suspect that women choose majors differently than men (unless you're the former head of Harvard Lawrence H. Summers), although it may very well turn out to be the case. This takes info I don't have and am not going to spend time trying to find. Given a neutral expectation for distribution of majors, the GPA should be lower.</p>
<p>However the expectation with regard to graduation rates remains if you think women have an easier time being admitted, and is contrary to the evidence given in this thread.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is no a priori reason to suspect that women choose majors differently than men (unless you're the former head of Harvard Lawrence H. Summers), although it may very well turn out to be the case.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just FYI, for MIT, these stats are online and public, on the Registrar's website. The <em>reasons</em> for the different choices are unknown (and it was Summers' conjecture on that that got him into trouble).</p>