<p>My buddy has to work 10 times as hard as her fellow male peers because she's a woman in engineering and hence, must deal with the intrinsic prejudices concerning her capabilities.</p>
<p>Orrican, blacks no longer sit in the back of the bus, thank god, and are no longer lynched for their race. That still doesn't eliminate obvious prejudices and discrimination they still face. Like I said before, any type of discrimination is worth battling.</p>
<p>Oh and no worries. I "debate over the war on terror and other issues that concern the very existence of this country" often.</p>
<p>His marriage will last, dude is a total pushover when it comes to lovey dovey stuff and his family and wife, but he is stubborn when it comes to arguments. (I am very much the same way, I talk a big game, but when it comes to a relationship I put my needs aside for the good of the girlfriend, blah blah I am rambling) </p>
<p>He did crack me up once, his wife and him were having a spat, and she said "I want a divorce" (you know how relationship arguments go) so he got put the phone book and said "Call that number, I don't want you to waste my time." She retracted her statement.</p>
<p>el paladino, you just made my point.
The problem of racism has not yet been diminished completely, but it has been greatly reduced.
And therefore, today there are much fewer organizations and leaders that constantly protest racism and prejudice.
In this new generation, racism is weakening on the state and social level every day.</p>
<p>The exact same fact holds true for feminism. I agree with you that this problem still exists. But it cannot be compared to what was true 30 years ago. Things are getting better everyday, and the feminists should drop it.</p>
<p>I'm a Jew. Do you think I am not aware of the anti semitism that still exist in teh US?
I am. But I know that it isn't what it was in the past.
And that's why you don't see 1,000 Jewish organizations fighting antisemitism in America.</p>
<p>Lol. I'm Asian. You think I'm not aware of racial discrimination in America? I've gotten cruel racial insults hurled at me, so don't even get me started. (And I'm not talking about lighthearted joking around like, "you're asian so you're good at math")</p>
<p>Anyway, that's not my point. If people just "drop it", there is no issue to deal with in the first place. I know that things are getting better everyday. The fact is, you make it seem as though you want to repress protest against discrimination, whether or not it be made by the "fewer organizations and leaders" that exist today.</p>
<p>She should have opted for the divorce.</p>
<p>to be honest, in my view feminists fall under the same category as vegans, "save the rainforest" people, and "fight aids in Africa" people.</p>
<p>They all deal with issues that are indeed important, but which are insignificant in comparison to other issues of today. Issues like discrimination against women is perhaps
item number 100 on the US list of prioritized issues.
Again, 30 years ago the discrimination issues were top priority, but today there are issue 1000 times more pressing. Issues like the war, global terror, education, crime in America and others are the issues we need to be focusing on as a nation now days.</p>
<p>... but our ability to try to treat people equally (and strive continuously for equality) is part of what separates us from terrorist nations. </p>
<p>It's really amazing that America is able to live with different religions, nationalities, and ethnicities in the same country - and try to treat women equally. </p>
<p>Just a note: I think that Sweden has women earning 90 cents to the man's dollar. Why can't we strive for that? </p>
<p>Other issues do not negate these issues.</p>
<p>
[quote]
With all due respect, women aren't made to sit in the back of the bus, and neither are they being lynched for their gender.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Read literally, this is true. However, ever heard of domestic violence? Rape? Things which affect millions of women in the United States alone?</p>
<p>first of all, the whole 75 cents per dollar thing is BS.
Ofcourse women on the whole get less money than men.
It's because there are way more housewives than there are 'househusbands'.</p>
<p>Some women, choose to remain at home and maybe have a part time job. Statistically, more women than men choose to do that (this is part of human culture - women are more inclined to stay home to raise the kids than men are). Thus, women earn 75 cents to the man's dollar on average.</p>
<p>In short, this number takes housewives into account.
If you only considered full-working women, you would see 95C for the man's dollar.</p>
<p>violence and rape have nothing to do with feminism.
Domestic violence is caused by both men and women,
and rape is indeed 99% of the times inflicted on woemn - but only because physically men are proven to be stronger!
(there are just as many women perverts as there are men)</p>
<p>Reading this thread made me realize something. I am a minority within a minority when it comes to succeeding in the real world. I am a female who is black. And, unfortunately, in this society, I will constantly be dealing with people, such as orrican, who will deny that subtly disguised racism and sexism exist when the plights of blacks and females are so evident. It's scary to see someone in the 21st century that is narrowminded enough to say that sexism doesn't exist. That's just like saying racism doesn't exist. Remember Rodney King?</p>
<p>I think that much of the discrimination is a result of older generations, and as these generations die out we will see a major improvement. Much like the South, improvement came much faster with the loss of the old-fashioned generation than it did simply through education efforts. The baby-boomer generation is the last stronghold of the 50's ideals (stay at home mom, etc. Think "Leave it to Beaver") And 20 years from now, we will see much change, as businesses are handed over to younger people.</p>
<p>actually...there'll probably be a woman president within the next 20 years</p>
<p>The majority of active feminists complain about gender inequality because they are either bored, are too lazy to work hard and overpower men, or they have an inferiority complex. Many women label men as couch potatoes who drink beer, eat donuts, and watch sports all day. Do you see men getting all worked up about generalizations that women male like this???</p>
<p>AND WHAT ABOUT MALE RIGHTS???????????????????????</p>
<p>If you're a guy and a woman allegedly rapes you, will anyone believe you????? HELL NO.</p>
<p>Why, because that is just an example of the mindset of the society we live in today. </p>
<p>Part of the blame for what has happened regarding gender, despite thirty years of feminism, lies with some of the rhetoric employed by the womens movement. A common way of stating what that movement is about is the call for women to be able to do whatever men can do or the claim that women are equally competent with men at most or all tasks or the push for women to have the same rights that men enjoy. But noticethat kind of rhetoric assumes that what men do and the way they are is the ideal and the norm toward which women should strive or which they should be allowed to attain.</p>
<p>just because the system benefits you doesn't mean it benefits everyone.</p>
<p>No, "the majority of active feminists (who) complain about gender inequality" complain because gender inequality is unfair. It discriminates, remember? </p>
<p>Sure, society is more likely to question the validity of a woman raping a man, but more the reason for altering society's mindset of discrimination.</p>
<p>No person in their right mind think that "what men do and the way they are is the ideal" You are taking the call for "women to be able to do whatever men can do" too literally. You are confusing feminists, women who want an equal playing field (opportunities) just as men do, with transvestites (a person who adopts the dress and often the behavior typical of the opposite sex).</p>
<p>Private_Joker, orrican doesn't deny that sexism exists....He simply feels it's "not important" because there are "more pressing issues" to deal with. </p>
<p>
[quote]
violence and rape have nothing to do with feminism.
Domestic violence is caused by both men and women,
and rape is indeed 99% of the times inflicted on woemn - but only because physically men are proven to be stronger!
(there are just as many women perverts as there are men)
[/quote]
oh right, and Blacks have never, in the history of the world, lynched Whites. The fact that domestic violence works both ways doesnt discount the fact that it's still a feminist issue!
I call BS on the rape issue...Rape can easily be commited with the use of a weapon (and usually is, I would think) - which eliminates any issue of physical weakness. Rape falls into the same category of forced prostitution and in many cases pornography - it results from a societal view of women as objects. I've seen it everywhere - any remotely attractive girl who shows enough skin is considered hot and sexy.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In short, this number takes housewives into account.
If you only considered full-working women, you would see 95C for the man's dollar.
[/quote]
Wow...that's false. Housewives don't contribute to the resource market in any way. Thus they can't be considered as full-time or part-time workers. They wouldn't even be factored into the economy at all because they're not actively looking for a job either.</p>
<p>
[quote]
this is part of human culture - women are more inclined to stay home to raise the kids than men are
[/quote]
"part of human culture"?? isn't that what we're talking about here? the "human culture" and the assumptions associated with it need to change!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Again, 30 years ago the discrimination issues were top priority, but today there are issue 1000 times more pressing. Issues like the war, global terror, education, crime in America and others are the issues we need to be focusing on as a nation now days.
[/quote]
do you actually believe that we can't discuss those issues while still talking about women's issues too? Why do you draw the line at 30 years ago? women had the same rights 30 years ago as they do now. in fact Blacks legally had the same rights as whites back in the 1960s, would it have been ok then for them to sit down and shut up??
Global terrorism exists because America isn't consistent with its principles...if we parade equality then we ought to recognize people in our own country as equals - not just legally and overtly - we need to rid ourselves of covert discrimination as well. That's the only way we 1. have a leg up on the terrorists and 2. have any solid basis for waging war against them. if we yell and scream that they aim to destroy the democratic principles on which we are founded, then we ought to act upon these very principles in the best way we can. To say that equality for women (or minorities) is simply not an issue is to undercut the justification for the war against terror and the war in Iraq.</p>
<p>As for education and crime in America, I'm not quite sure how you find these "more pressing" than the issue of women's equality. Similar in nature to the state of women in America, education is far more accessible than it is elsewhere in the world...and crime is far less rampant. Why do you take it upon yourself to determine what issues are the "most" important to America and what arent? Yes, crime and education are equally important but there is nothing that differentiates them as more pressing than the social issues we're discussing here...</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you're a guy and a woman allegedly rapes you, will anyone believe you????? HELL NO.
[/quote]
rape cases are hard to prove regardless of who the victim is...
but yeah..it's a problem with society's mindset to assume that it is not equally as possible for a woman to have the physical capability and amoral attitude that is needed for rape. And yeah..that's a flaw in the philosophy of certain feminists...BUT to assume that all feminists think the same way is to grossly oversimplify the issue.</p>
<p>Orrican, the reason that any progress is made on any issue, whether it be about women's rights or not, is that people STAND UP. "Shutting up and sitting down" as you so nicely put it, is never acceptable when there is an issue you feel passionate about. Change is good, and encouraging people not to voice their opinions contradicts with the democratic ideals you are trying to promote as an American voicing YOUR own opinion in this forum. </p>
<p>Also, feminists are not insecure and bored. I am a feminist, you, obviously, are not. Maybe we would know better than you? I am neither insecure nor bored. Actually, these issues intrest me quite passionately. Sure we don't sit on the back of the bus. And yes, we take maternity leave. I know that women and men will never ever be equal - you have to take into account our DNA. The thing is, women and men should deserve equal respect and at this point in time - they don't have it! You can say they do and talk about progress all you want, but there is still work to be done on many issues.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Domestic Violence has a lot to do with feminism. Yes, it goes both ways, but equilibrium is not in sight! Want proof? Have it (courtesy of <a href="http://endabuse.org/resources/facts)%5B/url%5D">http://endabuse.org/resources/facts)</a>. The worst part is, these are not random psycopaths - our husbands and boyfriends are the guilty ones! Again, we come to the question of equal respect!
-Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime
-Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 2001, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (588,490 total) and men accounted for approximately 15 percent of the victims (103,220 total).
-While women are less likely than men to be victims of violent crimes overall, women are five to eight times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate partner
-On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day. In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner.</p></li>
<li><p>Image. This is a huge one for me. As a feminist working for equality, I don't dislike men. In fact, I think they are fun to be with, talk to, etc. There is one shortcoming, however, with a society in which the majority of major institutions (government, banks, media, corporations) are run by men. This allows them to dictate what they think we should look like, feel like, work like, and how we should live. Every single American president has been a rich white man devoted to promoting the "American dream" of having money and raising a family - in which the man is the primary breadmaker. How should they know what ordinary women want? Why do we let these advertising executives tell us that we need to be thin with big boobs? Our self-esteem as women in this society is undermined every day by having these messages thrown at us - everything from the double standards and name calling to the media telling us we should buy these clothes or this makeup because nobody will love us otherwise. (again some stats - try <a href="http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.ca/flat2.asp?url=flat2.asp&id=1609)%5B/url%5D">http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.ca/flat2.asp?url=flat2.asp&id=1609)</a>. Why should women be expected to be a certain type of attractive. Beauty should be allowed to exist in all its forms and NO woman should have to feel inadequate because they don't measure up to some unrealistic ideal that the male advertising execs created in the first place!
The worst part to me are these big CEO positions. The men and supposed anti-feminists in society all yell out that equality is being achieved because there are women up there in the career ladder - but we have to ask - at what cost?! Women in these positions essentially have to give up their femininity, because such qualities are ridiculed in the business world. It is our job to change that. Emotion and nurturing should have no less place there than dedication and strength. I believe that all together, society would be at its most productive. </p></li>
<li><p>Global concerns - HIV/AIDS and the social stigma attached to the women who have it, genital mutilation, forced prostitution, oppressive regimes (where women can be sentenced to death by stoning for being raped "out of wedlock", for example!), etc. All are due for change, and FAST! Don't tell me we should wait around with our mouths shut while these women are suffering and dying. Maybe you want to consider some of the following. (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism)%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism)</a>.
-Worldwide, women work more than men, when both paid employment and unpaid household tasks are accounted for, according to the United Nations Human Development Report 2004: Section 28, Gender, Work Burden, and Time Allocation. In rural areas of the developing countries surveyed, women perform an average of 20% more work than men, or an additional 98 minutes per day. In the OECD countries surveyed, on average women performed 5% more work than men, or 18 minutes per day.
-Women own only 1 percent of the world's wealth, and earn 10 percent of the world's income, despite making up 51 percent of the population.
-Women are underrepresented in all of the world's major legislative bodies (see Women in National Parliaments, November 2004). In 1985, Finland had the largest percentage of women in national legislature at approximately 32 percent (P. Norris, Women's Legislative Participation in Western Europe, West European Politics). Currently, Sweden has the highest number of women at 45 percent. The United States has just 14 percent. The world average is just 9 percent.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>What do I do about it? What should you do about it? Again, I have to stress the point - shutting up is the LAST thing anybody should do in the case of any issue you are passionate about. Sure I might be biased, but I recognise that as the only way to make a lasting point about this - and trust me, I've tried before. I started an Amnesty Club at my school this year and we gave presentations to all the freshman history classes on International Women's Day and again on the day after the Montreal Massacre memorial (where a man walked into a Quebec engineering school 15 years ago and killed 14 women because he "hated feminists"). Open your eyes and those of others around you to the real world. It's nice to think the world is near perfect and that equality has been achieved, but reality is far from that. Even as a member of this site, you show that you strive towards an ideal in American society - going to a good college! Striving towards the ideal of gender equality is always going to be a good thing to work towards.</p>