<p>What do big finance companies look for for full time candidates? Do they look more on your analytical skills/potentials or focus more on your previous experience in the finance industry? Is it a lot harder to get full-time positions in finance if you haven't had any industry-related experience?</p>
<p>I'm asking because I am an engineering major with an internship offer from GS Tech but also another top technology company. I feel it's a very hard for me to decide which internship to pick right now. How much does having an internship in GS help when it comes to landing full-time positions? (and how much does it help to land in full-time positions in a different division, for example S&T instead of tech?)</p>
<p>Working at an investment bank, even in IT, is obviously better than doing pure technology at a tech company. That being said, it is VERY difficult to break into a front-office banking role from IT, because 1) the skillsets are completely different, 2) front-office roles are much more selective, and 3) everyone wants to break into the front office. If you still have time, I’d recommend that you look for an internship with a boutique bank. Even if it’s a no-name firm, an internship where you do actual banking is infinitely better than a back office role, even if it’s at Goldman.</p>
<p>Because it’s the same role, but at a finance firm, you at least have the opportunity to learn about finance and network with bankers. Breaking into the front office is much easier if you have bankers rooting for you.</p>
<p>Of course it is not the same role. Being an engineer at a mostly engineering firm you are the front office, you are doing pure engineering work, innovating, executing etc.</p>
<p>In a finance firm, you are in a supporting role, maintaining all the tech equipment, tweaking software, installing programs, mostly a servicing role.
It is totally different.</p>
<p>Systems support, which is what you’re describing, is very different from software development, which is the same role as at a tech company, developing software. The only difference is that it’s not considered front office.</p>
<p>Banks don’t care what your specific role in IT is - to them, back office is back office. But there’s an inherent advantage in working at a bank because it gives you access to people who you can network with and who can pull for you when the next recruiting season comes around. Who can you network with at Google to get a job at Goldman?</p>
<p>If you want to be an engineer, obviously don’t do it at a bank. But if you want to break into banking, the choice is crystal clear.</p>
<p>The OP is asking if he stands a chance of transferring to front office from GS IT.
My answer is no, not without getting his MBA from a top school.</p>
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<p>From my experience,(and I know I have a lot more experience than you) I’ve never seen it done without a IT guy going back to get his MBA at a top school.</p>
<p>However, I have seen engineers being recruited to IB directly, but that’s is not the point in this thread.</p>
<p>That would be true if the op was considering full time options. But for a summer internship, it is much more advantageous to be at a bank. Don’t bring experience into the argument - I’ve been through exactly what the ops going through, and trust me, for a summer internship, gs tech is the better option.</p>
<p>1) Many front office IT guys write programs for structured product, they also understand hedging, risk management better than those low level sales/trading assistants. If they didn’t how could they possibly write those programs.</p>
<p>2) No, front office is not more selective. CIOs often sit on the same management team as front office managers. Some of my programers get paid more than mid level sales/trading guys. </p>
<p>3) Not everyone wants to break into the front office. I was in the front office, chose to move to technology because of work/life balance, pay, job security.</p>
<p>Over the years, I’ve lost some top developers to trading. They started out by sitting on the desk showing traders how to use those trading systems. Top developers in capital market are often the subject matter expert in many product areas, otherwise it’s not possible for them to develope those systems. They are also good risk takers/manager - every time they put out a new system there is always a possibility it may blow, and they would only have minutes if not seconds to back out or fix the problem (when the market is open and you are doing program trading, price/amt all better be right, and they better all be going to the right destination). I tell my developers - in school if you don’t get a perfect answer, you could get a B or C, but at work you either get an A or F.</p>
<p>Top IT people do very well. When there is a down turn, unlike front office people, it’s not like they could cut 100% of people.</p>
<p>I would take the IT position at GS over any other technology company. After a few years of training there you could move to the front office or run a department at a technology department (moving a trade is no different than moving dog food package, except you just know how to do it a lot faster.)</p>
<p>Good points. Certainly plenty of people do well in tech. To each his own. And I agree that people in banking IT can also learn about finance. We’re recommending the same option - to the op, take gs.</p>
<p>So from what you guys have said, it seems like it is possible to make the transition between back office and front office, and also sometimes the tech get paid more than some of the front office people. </p>
<p>Then my next question is, because this is an internship opportunity and not a full-time commitment, how much of a difference do the two internships make when it comes to getting a full-time offer at GS (or other finance firms) if I were going to apply for a full-time position there? I know that the tech company is very highly regarded in the software industry (pretty much everyone will be impressed by the name if they wanted to hire a software developer). Do you think that same name will also help me if I were to apply for GS Tech again for a full-time position? (I know this may sound stupid because I may as well do the internship at GS tech and try to get a full-time offer, but I just want to know IF working at a highly regarded tech company can also help instead of hurt when it comes to getting into a finance firm).</p>
<p>Also, compared to people in software development in tech, do application developers in firms such as GS make a lot more money (salary + bonus)? I’d like to get an idea about the trade-off between the money aspect and the lifestyle aspect because I am rather attracted to the laid back atmosphere in some tech firms.</p>
<p>Working in tech at GS alone won’t help much for breaking into banking. It is up to you to absorb as much finance as you can during the internship and network to be better-positioned for full-time recruiting. The GS name will help, but the effect will be marginal when recruiters see that you were in IT.</p>
<p>Salary-wise, the money in banking tech is decent and higher than most pure tech firms, but overall much lower than comparable positions in IBD and trading. Of course, there are exceptions, but in general, front office pay is considerably higher. The upside is that work/life balance is better in tech, and it is a more stable job, as oldfort posted.</p>
<p>Are these your only two options? If there’s still time, you should try applying for boutique banks and prop shops - if you want to do banking or trading full-time, an internship in a front-office role, even at a small firm, is much better than doing tech.</p>
<p>GS tech would never be laid back. I do not work there. I work at a lower tier firm, but I sleep with my BB and I take my BB to bathroom when I take a shower.</p>
<p>No, it would be hard for you to move from a highly reputable software co to a finance tech dept, doesn’t matter if it’s Microsoft or Google. Every time a recruiter calls me, the first thing I ask is “any finance experience?” </p>
<p>IT within those BB firms, like everyone else, if you are good at what you do (which means perfect) then you would get paid very well. </p>
<p>If you like laid back atmosphere then GS is really not for you. You would be miserable. It’s ok to be miserable for a short period of time, but it’s not a way to live for a long period of time. Think hard before you go over to the dark side.:)</p>
<p>A side note - my daughter is one of few lucky few who got invited to interview with GS. But it is very low on her list as far as where she wants to work. Just because a firm is high ranking doesn’t mean it’s the right firm for you. I very much believe in “fit” when it comes to right kind of job and right firm.</p>
<p>So I was actually in this same dilemma last year. I had an offer from JPM IT and Microsoft. At the time it was a no brainer for me, it didn’t make sense for me to do IT at JPM as opposed to tech for a tech company so i chose microsoft hands down. Another reason was because I was convinced that it was impossible for you to move from IT to front office. I was completely false. My interest was in finance and so I hated soft dev from the start. If i could do it again I would choose IT, if only for the reason that your exposed to the world of finance and you gain an understanding of how certain things work, like the trading software. you are so well versed in that area that you can make that switch to front office because you understand whats going on. Being from MIT I know a lot of guys that started in IT but are now in front office positions in IBD, Sales, or traders.</p>
<p>That said unless this is your junior year internship it may be worthwhile just to explore the other option. I did and if nothing else I realized what I didn’t want to be doing, and this summer I’m actually going back to work at JPM as a Banker. So I mean if your interest lies in finance i would suggest IT, if they don’t then it may be worthwhile to delve into software dev, if you have another chance to come back to finance.</p>
<p>And i just read your second post, one of the things that helped me out in the interview process was Microsoft on my resume. I was interviewed by 5 people (at a superday) and all mentioned the fact that it was pretty impressive.</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies. This is actually my junior year internship, so next year I won’t have another chance at an internship. One thing I am concerned is that I may not have another chance to try out finance. akybaky, did you have any exposure to finance through internship or course works? Do you think that working at Microsoft for a summer will be as impressive as working in the banking IT for a summer when it comes to landing a full-time position in banking?</p>
<p>Lightuh: have you actually been offered the internship at GS? If so, this is a no-brainer. GS=Ivy League…with one caveat</p>
<p>Do you need a visa when you graduate??? If you do, then you should go with the firm that gives you the best option in terms of sponsoring your h1-b. If visa is not an issue, then go for GS…but definitely don’t expect a laid back atmosphere, because you won’t find that at GS.</p>
<p>Why is this a no-brainer? Both firms are top rated in their respective fields, so I think this is a very hard decision in my opinion. No, I don’t need a visa sponsorship. I am considering which firm will benefit me more in the long run.</p>
<p>If there are 2 equally qualified candidates and 1 has prior finance experience (even in IT) and 1 does not, the one with experience has the edge. I’m not saying that MSFT doesn’t hold a certain cache, all I’m saying is that GS on your resume tends to make you more desirable to other banks. This assumes that you are looking to be in the NY area after graduation. If you plan on being on the west coast, then I could see where MSFT = GS in terms of opportunities.</p>
<p>Now if you were telling me to decide between say UBS in their general IT group doing network support and security resets etc vs MSFT working in new products or something interesting or in their corporate finance team, then MSFT would have the edge. But a straight up MSFT vs GS, I’d pick GS</p>
<p>Hmm… I actually did not quite think about the location factor. But I do prefer the westcoast over NYC, having been to both places. I did not think about MSFT would be better regarded if I were to look for opportunities on the westcoast as opposed to those on the eastcoast…</p>