<p>Gee, we had avoided any bitterness about these lesser-privileged kids. </p>
<p>I can’t speak to UCLA’s programs for kids from under-performing high schools- but I can tell you that, at my Ivy, the URMs, 1st gens and kids from the lousy high schools who get accepted are nearly always top performers. They show a level of motivation and determination that qualifies them, a track record of taking on and mastering challenges. We’re talking about kids at the top of their classes and good scores. Occasionally, a kid gets in who doesn’t have the top stats, but they are exceptional in some other valid ways- and they are a teeny number.</p>
<p>Let’s also remember that not all “great” high schools offer AP classes or IB tracks.<br>
Compton does offer GATE, AP and honors classes.</p>
<p>Like garland, I also live in a very affluent area - the Hamptons to be specific in my case.</p>
<p>It certainly is much more difficult on a modest income to survive out here, but it can be done. We live relatively simply compared to many of my neighbors. We drive two Hondas.</p>
<p>My house, which is on the market right now, is a 1600 sq. foot ranch on .4 ac. We are asking about $400K for it. The same house where I used to live near Syracuse would go for less than half of that price. I can’t imagine how kids get started on their own in the housing market around here. None of my kids do, or plan to, live in this area when they graduate from college.</p>
<p>But back to the subject at hand - college financial aid. I think there is a bit of envy here. Those on the low end of the income bracket are jealous of those on the higher end that have more options. And those on the higher end resent those who are getting more help than they are. That, to me, is the core problem. </p>
<p>Other than the federal loans, and the little bit of federal aid like Pell, the system is a private system - and private colleges really can give their funding to whomever they choose to. It isn’t fair, but it doesn’t have to be. It is quite ballsy to insist that a private company distribute its money to our whims.</p>
<p>Frankly if you’re paying someone more than $15 an hour for someone to clean your house and it takes them more than 4 hours…you are paying too much and your house is too big or your cleaning person is slower than a tortoise.</p>
<p>I have had cleaning persons at various points over the years…and I do use a dry cleaner occasionally and my kids do participate in sports/activities including pricey ones like golf and music and they all three had braces just sayin the numbers in the article (most of the numbers for personal expense type things were abit over the top and reflective of what happens when people “make” more money. Most people can easily “spend” what they earn.</p>
<p>If the biggest burden a family faces is paying their maid, then something is seriously wrong.</p>
<p>There are people all over the world starving in the streets, dying in the dirt, toiling for bread until they fall aside, paid cents an hour to manufacture American clothing, thirsting for want of a cup of water while the rich have Olympic size swimming pools to splash around in. There is poverty, oppression, death; this is not the world of the rich, though. The thousands of dollars spend on maids and luxuries could feed villages crushed by the neo-imperialism of massive corporations, could feed the hungry and clothe the naked and house the homeless in this country or others, could do good in the world.</p>
<p>It is sickening that some people have too much while so many others have too little. If you think I’m being too harsh, I invite you to live in poverty, to visit the starving, to see the sick who die for lack of cotton-fiber paper, to meet their hungry crying children, to be homeless, to feel the pain of hunger, to not have enough, to live like this for years with no escape, then look upon the rich. The waste, the decadence, the outrageous claims of not having enough by they who have too much.</p>
<p>As far as cleaning help, one could hire a company to come in for 3-4 hours. Many individuals want to be paid for the day. Additionally, many people do hire them for more than cleaning (again this is a choice, just like house cleaning services are a choice). I do know some people also ask that the person to do other tasks: iron, pick up their child at 3:00, have dinner ready, or even clean a week’s worth of dishes/pots (I know that is disgusting, but I was asked to this myself when hired to babysit when I was 15 years old), sew on some buttons, etc.</p>
<p>BillyMac, I don’t have a problem with anyone who can afford it, hiring a maid. By that I don’t mean hiring a maid and then filing for financial aid!</p>
<p>Agree, if you can afford luxuries like having someone clean your house, or buying expensive cars or having a cleaners for your clothes or eating $1200 worth of groceries a month plus buying lunches and dinners out once a week or buying new kitchen appliances because black is out and stainless is in etc. etc. you should not need financial aid for college and people are certainly entitled to spend their money where they want but should not expect someone else to support them when the time comes to send the kiddos off to college. Most people on this board support aid for good students of poverty level families. There’s a world of difference between that and super-sized choice life styles and all the whining in the world will not change it when the kiddo is a high school senior.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys you must be joking about getting a house cleaner for 15$/hr. That is pure nonsense. The discussion here is not about the poor or underpriviledged. The issue is whether it makes sense to give FA to people at the 90th % of income and force not rich familes living in expensive cities to pay full price all the while tuition continues to rise above inflation. You may want to argue with the analysis run in today’s NYT but finding another 5k or even 10k in no way means they can pay the bill. Are you saying then that you think its good policy for the elite college classes to consist only of lower-middle income students and the true rich say making over 500k?</p>
<p>This is being judgemental, as I stated that in the “What’s my pet peeve”. People seem to think just because someone doesn’t live your life style, then they are not doing it right. I am paying for my parents’ cleaning service now, and it is $150/week (they have 4 bedroom, 6 hours for weekly cleaning). I have full time service where I am now because it is so darn cheap.</p>
<p>Say, you say - "Are you saying then that you think its good policy for the elite college classes to consist only of lower-middle income students and the true rich say making over 500k? " That is exactly what is happening on the coasts.</p>
<p>I understand and that’s why it’s such a big problem in many ways. The people not getting FA but not rich are the actual alums of these elite colleges and they also pay a very large percentage of the taxes in America. The train wreck is coming soon because once tuition hits 80k then even the 250k families will require big FA.</p>
<p>It’s nonsense to flatly declare you can’t, just can’t, get a cleaning person for $15/hour. We have them here for $12 and we live in a subset of a major metro area (an “A” city) in the East.</p>
<p>The point is: if you earn so much more than they next guy, should you pay what he does?
(If you earn twice what they do- 300k vs 150k…)</p>
<p>60k COA is 28% of the 300k net income (after taxes, for NYC, per my earlier source,) 52% of the $150 net, and 77% of the $100 net. Play with it however you wish. </p>
<p>I grant that executives have higher dry cleaning bills, may not want to brown-bag their lunches and may have to pay exhorbitant parking rates at the hi-rise office building. I don’t get the notion that the rest of their expenses are equally mandatory- or uniquely mandatory.</p>
<p>Where it gets worse for folks at 100k is that their insurance, food, gasoline, car insurance, and all sorts of non-discretionary expenses are the same as the 300k or 500k folks pay. Same for lower incomes, down to some level where they can get some public support of some kind.</p>
<p>*The people not getting FA but not rich are the actual alums of these elite colleges and they also pay a very large percentage of the taxes in America. *
They are the actual alums of these colleges? Maybe they are plumbers.</p>
<p>I have a cleaning lady come to our house twice a week. Used to be once a week, but now I have two old grandmas living with us. I have a large house, large family and I can’t exert myself physically as I have exercise anaphlaxia. Ended up in anaphylactic shock twice in the last 3 years, and in the ER. Had no blood pressure at all once time. I have to be very careful not to trigger a reaction. </p>
<p>But we can afford it. You won’t see my crying about not being eligible for financial aid. However, some years ago, my son was dxed with a life threatening high risk cancer. For two years he had long periods of time when his ANC (a component of the immune system) was nadir (zero). Several kids we knew died from rapid traveling infections. Yes, we got a maid. We had the ducts cleaned, the carpets removed and vinyl laid in a bedroom. We had the place cleaned once a week because though I was capable of hard labor those days but by the time I returned from the clinic, I was done. </p>
<p>There are a lot of inequities in all societies on who has what. Of course, those with more money have more choices in everything. And NO, I don’t advocate those with the money moving up in line for financial aid. But bear in mind that with more income and assets come more responsibilities. If you absolutely can’t afford something it is off the table. You gotta drive that unsafe, unreliable car and pray that the funny noise is not something dangerous. You may live in a neighborhood where you do have to have several locks on the doors and windows and be aware that there is a safety issue. The neighborhood school is not so great. When you don’t feel well, you hope you get better before seeing the doctor. You don’t see the best specialist for your medical condition. Your house may be run down and the yard needs some major work. Your teeth may not be so good. Your kids have crooked teeth and though love playing on that beat up piano you have, they don’t get formal lessons. You just can’t help your mother out much even though it hurts when she’s crying about some need or other. You don’t have the money.</p>
<p>But if you have the money, there is no excuse for that. Yes, I could squeeze all of us in a house half the size in a not so great neighborhood. The old ladies can be in cheap dentures that don’t fit right. The place could be kept haphazard clean. We can live another half hour away so we see DH even less as he commutes to his high stress job. But to me, the money we get is to be spent in giving all of us, our loved ones a better quality of life. I spend several thousand dollars a year, unreimbursed by insurance for my son to go to Memorial Sloan Kettering where his oncologist is for long term follow up. Unnecessary, yes. If I didn’t have it, I wouldn’t do it. But I have it and it rates up there in my priorities. So though we have a high income, we do have to make choices on where our priorities are, and college is not the be all to end all.</p>
<p>Oh, and despite the luxuries we can afford, theoretically, we could have qualified for financial aid this year. With the COAs as high as they are, with 2 kids in college, we actually could have exceeded our EFC at certain schools and if they were 100% need met schools that did not give out loans, yes, we could have qualified for a few thousand dollars. Even with a maid.</p>
<p>I teach high school and work with some low income students who have parents that are for example, disabled, imprisoned, or have died. I encourage seniors to bring me their financial aid offers so I can help them understand what lies ahead. Because it appears that the “costs” are covered (partly by loans), they think they have a “free ride”. I set them straight. They do get grants and aid, but most, with the exception of the students that score in the 30’s on the ACT, still have $5-$6,000 of loans a year to either public or private. When a student is truly needy, $20-$30,000 of student loan debt is difficult, because they have ZERO resources and DON’T have parents that would move heaven and earth to help their student get a college education, as we read about on this site. I encourage them to consider community college first if they will be encountering too much debt. (They tend to be offended by that idea.)</p>
<p>Most posters on this site are savvy. Your kid will make it, no matter what. For the truly needy, financial aid is a giant step up.</p>
<p>No one wants to pay more for something than the next guy. It doesn’t matter whether you are rich or poor. If you are buying the same product you don’t want to have to pay 2-3 times what someone else is paying.</p>
<p>Do you get a discount when buying a house if you are low income? No.</p>
<p>Do you get a discount on air tickets if you are low income? No.</p>
<p>But we expect someone to be able to get a discount on education if they are poor. Probably because we expect that the poor will be able to leave poverty with education.</p>
<p>SAY no one HAS to go to a college that is the most expensive in the country. That’s all I’m saying. Like cpt points out, everyone makes choices about what they spend their money on every single day. Frankly it wouldn’t bother me in the least if colleges stopped tuition subsidies except for the very poorest much like it was three and four decades ago…there would still be outstanding choices for many families across the country and I would guess that costs would stabilize if not lower. And frankly the Raisin Bran for $2 a box at our local discount store has more raisins in it than the name brand at $4 a box…when colleges can be compared on a real cost/value basis rather than a perceived brand image then I’ll join the fray.</p>
or your cleaning person is slower than a tortoise.</p>