Financial need vs want

Parents Forum
41

<p>

</p>

<p>I checked Iowa State’s net price calculator. For an in-state student from a family of 3 with the various household incomes, the net price would be:</p>

<p>$0-$29,999 => $10,109
$30,000-$39,999 => $12,139
$40,000-$49,999 => $13,759
$50,000-$59,999 => $15,029
$60,000-$69,999 => $15,599
$70,000-$79,999 => $16,654
$80,000-$89,999 => $17,269
$90,000-$99,999 => $17,669
$100,000+ => $17,169 (yes, this looks odd)</p>

<p>Total cost of attendance is $18,919 in the net price calculator (which does not seem to list full price for anyone), but $18,920 in the cost of attendance page.</p>

<p>But based on the above, it looks like they are not really meeting need for those who are actually poor, or close to but below median household income (although certainly a lot better than PA and IL). The low list price does benefit those from upper middle to upper income households, who seem to get token grants in the net price calculator.</p>

42

<p>Exactly,emeraldkity, In Virginia, it is not that easy to get into our great public schools. Many instate kids get turned down by UVa, William & Mary and Virginia Tech, despite high grades and SAT scores. That is usually what the main complaints are in the Washington Post articles that seem to come out every year. I have kids that went to/go to UVa and VT and feel fortunate we had such good choices in Virginia, despite being full pay. I try not to think about what others are paying as I feel we are paying our fair share based on what the FAFSA has always indicated(and paid far less than privates). The whole way FA is done sometimes does seem strange but I don’t want to lose sleep over it. With 2 kids , 4 years apart , for instance, I’ve never understood the seeming advantage given when you have more than one kid in college at the same time. But after 8 straight years of full pay at our state schools, I am now done! Younger son graduates next month.</p>

43

<p>@ucb, but the in-state tuition+fees at Iowa are only 7k.</p>

44

<p>However, it will cost more than tuition and fees to attend. Either commuting costs or a place to live near the school will add to the expense.</p>

45

<p>There was a time when “going away” to attend college was not an entitlement</p>

46

<p>True, you lived at home when attending college, or if you had some sort of sports scholarship, you might have gone off to your states flagship school.
That is if you considered going to a 4 yr college at all.
Generally you either went into the military or to community college if you didn’t have a full time job after high school.</p>

47

<p>ucb, the figures you quote are for Iowa State while GMT is talking about Iowa. Not sure it matters to your discussion but wanted to point that out.</p>

48

<p>emeraldkity4-maybe that was the case in your area when you were in college but everyone I know went away to college, lived on campus, most went to private LAC’s because, like today, they were more affordable because of merit aid. A few kids went into the military but most that wanted to do that did ROTC. Times have not changed much in our area in those respects. State schools—and private schools for that matter—still cost the same percent of earnings for workers with college aged kids as they did back then. I think the problem is, people are remembering things with rose colored glasses :D.</p>

49

<p>@Steve, u must have grown up in a fairly affluent community. In the middle-middle class public HS I went to, a significant number of kids pursued vocational training, and most of the kids who did go on to college went to the local branch of the public university, not the flagship campus an hour away. Only a few dozen went away to college.</p>

50

<p>Tjmom, as of right now UVA has not been able to utilize PROFILE fully and even has asked for those later in the cycle not to submit one So those self employed can have a very nice loophome as business assets are not counted in small businesses, and a lot of deductions can be taken and all of those are recognized on FAFSA. Many PROFILE school, not all of them, but many, add that all back in, and what UVA will do in the future is up in the air. But right now if you have a small business, it is possible to make out in terms of low EFC on FAFSA only schools and on those schools that are giving these businesses leeway on PROFILE. So, the family may well not be cheating on anything, and met a thresh hold for income that gives the student some nice aid. Good for them if that is the case.</p>

51

<p>GMTplus7–not really–just your typical suburban area. Sure there were some pretty wealthy people but most people were just middle class. People were just expected to go to college.</p>

52

<p>Not all people are salaried folks whose full income is duly reported to IRS. There are those folks who have “cash businesses” or whose jobs rely predominantly on cash payments, where a fair amount of income is under-reported or not reported at all. This situation is not unusual here in our city. We once lived in a middle-class suburban neighborhood where the reported median household income was only $65,000, yet nearly every driveway had two late-model luxury cars (often Mercedes). Many operated cash-generating businesses. It wasn’t uncommon to find a mother carrying a luxury purse driving a luxury car and using LINK card (food stamps) to purchase groceries at Costco and the kids received free lunch at school, etc. Unlicensed “pick-up truck” casual contractors who flip properties, and owners of convenience stores in marginal neighborhoods are often under-reporting income. Their families “work the system” to best serve their interests.</p>

<p>From my personal viewpoint, if it looks like “cheating”, it’s likely cheating.</p>

53

<p>TJMom: I come from a family that buys used cars, drives them until they die, and doesn’t take European vacations. The older sister of one of my best friends never got to go to her dream school; her parents had assiduously saved for college on one income, were a one-car (Ford) family, and never vacationed. Yet this woman’s best friend got loads of need-based aid to the same school, despite living in a nicer house, with nicer cars, and fancy vacations. Yes, schools should do a better job of <em>not</em> punishing savers. </p>

<p>

Does Virginia enable you to lock in tuition rates with this plan? In some states, if you pay into the plan, you aren’t just saving; you are being charged the tuition that was charged a decade ago. (Nothing wrong with this, and it’s not gaming the system; it’s the purpose of such plans.) </p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

54

<p>As for the Iowa thing: perhaps the assumption is that if your family cannot afford college, you will work for part of your college tuition while in college. The real luxury, IMHO, isn’t living on campus - many people don’t live within commuting distance of their state university - it’s not working while you are there. </p>

<p>Sarah Palin got excoriated for taking more than four years to finish, but she frequently left for a semester, worked in a fishery or waiting tables, and then used that money to pay for the next semester of tuition. Love her or hate her, but what’s wrong with that? or a modified version thereof, wherein you work 15 hours a week at the campus bookstore and earn a few thousand a year towards your living expenses?</p>

55

<p>It’s never a good idea to try to count other’s money. You just don’t know what their specific circumstances are. They could be cheating, yes, or have outside support, or there could be other factors at play. You just don’t know.</p>

<p>My son gets the green eye a lot as he is struggling on his own surrounded with those with family connections and money that are having a much easier time than he is as a result. But, you know, he is benefiting from having family close by who help out, the security of knowing if things got bad, there is a nearby safety net, and no school loans. There are far more who are much worse off than he is than those who have it better than he does, yet he tends to focus on those few who are more advantaged. Not a good thing to focus and obsess about. As I wrote earlier, I have neighbors whose houses were bought for them by their parents. On the surface we all look the same, and if they had not told me, I would not know, but yes, there are those who qualify for aid, legitimately as they have little or no income who have family supporting them </p>

<p>My SIL’s parents support one of their kids’ family who live very well in a nice neighborhood in a great house, and drive wonderful cars, take marvelous vacations and both kids get some serious financial aid from their colleges. Dad makes hardly any money and mom barely makes $20K a year. You’d never know.</p>

56

<p>I’m going to take a different approach on this. Instead of telling the OP what they shouldn’t be doing (counting other’s money, worrying about their neighbor, etc.) I’m simply going to say… </p>

<p>I can imagine how frustrating that must have been for you. I would be frustrated as well. Too bad the mom didn’t just keep this information to herself. It’s hard to ‘unhear’ things. I don’t like hearing about others finances because it’s a very personal thing I’d rather steer clear of. I am sometimes aghast at what people I do not know well will disclose. My closest friends and I never discuss these things…salaries, scholarships, cost of homes, etc.</p>

<p>Congratulations to your son on being accepted to one of our top schools! I’m a proud Virginian as well, so tbh I get where you’re coming from. From your post I don’t think this is anything more then a vent for you, not a huge hang up. Your son, and you as parents, have a lot to look forward to in the next four years. I doubt this will cross your mind again once this thread dies of natural causes. Slap that sticker on your car, get some spirit wear, a flag for the house, the dog needs a university collar, go nuts!! It’s a lot more fun then reading these replies. (including mine!) :)</p>

57

<p>Yes, they should do a better job, but how do they do so? They don’t have the extra money to investigate every family getting aid - that would probably cost more than the aid itself!</p>

<p>Assume you have two families with $60,000 income, and similar assets. How do you tell the difference between the family that used to make only $30,000 and scrimped by the past 10 years, and the other family that used to make $90,000 a year and spent it on fancy cars, vacations, and other luxuries. The financial snapshot looks the same. While I think the first family is more deserving of aid, the second family is the one that is likely to be more uncomfortable trying to come up with tuition, because they can’t live the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed. The first family may be able to contribute $10,000 toward tuition without dropping below their accustomed lifestyle.</p>

<p>Perspective…</p>

58

<p>Steve Ma, I was in high school during the first part of the 70s. Perhaps you attended a little later?
As 3/4 of the country does NOT have a four year degree, the community you are speaking of seems unusual.</p>

59

<p>Only 30% of my graduating class went directly to college full time, including community type college. and less than those numbers went for my DH’s. Very few went to sleep away college or college outside of the state or outside of commuting range. Even today the stats are not that great for those going to schools outside the one hour circle from home, at most high schools. Even at my son’s private college prep school, a lot of kids go to college close by, the vast majority within a 3 hour radius. A big increase by the way in commuters and in state college kids as compared to 10 years ago. The costs and the economy are having an effect here.</p>

60

<p>Eh, here in Massachusetts, something like 90% of the kids in middle-class suburban high schools will at least start college. </p>

<p>CTScoutmom: I would agree with you, except every family knows this is coming. Perhaps the better way to do it would be some sort of cost-of-living adjustment, combined with ten years of income information. It’s never going to be perfectly fair, but you can at least not penalise people for saving.</p>