<p>Steve, in what universe did I say anything along those lines? Of course there can be! I’m one of them, thanks. But most are not which is why I asked about need based aid.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse–Gustavus ranks as one of the top schools in the country for giving out the largest merit/FA packages to the most students–90%+ according to the Kipplinger survey that is posted here quite often. It’s not just merit money, it’s the entire package. Yes, our kids, by design applied to schools where they would get a lot of merit money because we are a full pay family, we, however, got no FA other than loans. We are talking about low income, first generation students though, not my kids. 50K is not a low income in places like Iowa, Missouri, etc.</p>
<p>Stevema, those student from low income families who are top students/high test scores and have someone showing them the opportunities can do very well. Where the gap starts to hit are with those who don’t have the top test score or even good test scores. it seems like the test scores are what tend to dictate merit awards and a lot of financial aid form the smaller schools have merit within need. Many have fin aid and admissions all in one. </p>
<p>I’m sure Sybbie, for one could truly use the results of your research as she does work with kids in that situation. She can do wonders with those with the high test scores. But otherwise, it gets tough, especially if there is a NCP situation or the parents just can’t/won’t pay their EFCs. Good merit aid is the only way those kids can go away to school, and for some it might be the best thing to do, as the home situation might not be so swell and as they become adults, it’s like two or more bulls in a the same pen at home., very volatile, not conducive for getting college work done.</p>
<p>Look at the numbers for Gustavus: [Gustavus</a> Adolphus College Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1750]Gustavus”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1750)</p>
<p>Not bad. 93% of need met on average, just like GW university that meets 94% of need.
48.5% get need fully met vs 77.8% of GW university. Umm, I think GW beats them out on that.</p>
<p>I’m all for Gustavus, but it’s not that terrific stats wise for aid. I just compared it to a mainline school that has it beat hands down on the 3 Rs.</p>
<p>Plus Gustavus probably wouldn’t take my kid. They sport a 27 average ACT, not shabby at all with a 25-30 score range for its 50 % with Sat 1 50% range being 570-680. My kid had a 22 ACT. You think he could even get in? </p>
<p>That is not a school that would go on my list unless the kid is doing pretty well. For merit you gotta be in the upper quarter at that school too. A kid who can get in there and do well, has a lot of options, Gustavus is hardly a hidden gem or school I would recommend as non mainline with a good chance of a lot of aid. The figures belie this regardless of the Kiplinger lists.</p>
<p>Now St Joe’s in Indiana or Concordia in Iowa, maybe we can talk turkey.</p>
<p>Exactly–so those 48% of kids got full need met–exactly my point. 93% of need met on average–so of a price tag of $48,000 that leaves a student about $2800 left to pay–which is EASILY earned working 10 hours/week through the school year–or working at a summer job or two…</p>
<p>Would your kid get in, I don’t know, a 22 is a pretty low score. If you are low income, first generation like we are talking about though, I would certainly apply to a school like Gustavus because there is a high likelihood of getting your need met when you consider your summer wages and you would be going to school in a very low cost area so no expensive apartments, etc. to worry about down the road. But, it’s not on the east coast so it can’t possibly be a good school…</p>
<p>cptofthehouse: it’s my understanding that “splitters” often have to apply to more schools; some simply focus more on grades and class rank, others on SAT scores. Tough for poorer kids, sometimes; they don’t have the money.</p>
<p>Just a thought - exceptional athletes also can get aid at DI or DII colleges, or recruited enough at colleges that meet full need so that they can get need-based aid.</p>
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<p>That’s not what “on average” means. It is more likely that something less than 48% of the students get full need met, and another fraction get far less than 93%. Colleges tend to leverage their aid, favoring some students over others. So the more common experience at a college which meets a certain percentage of aid “on average” is that there is a significant fraction of students who qualified for need based aid but were offered only loans, leaving a substantial gap; while another percentage were given grants as well as loans to have their full need met.</p>
<p>There is no benefit to a college to give skimpy financial aid to everyone – it makes much more sense for them to give generous aid the to strongest students, and then short the aid to the bottom end of the admitted students (the admit/deny) situation. That way their aid dollars are being used to attract the students they want, and the students who are more borderline are not being subsidized heavily by the school. (Keep in mind that federal aid doesn’t cost the college anything – so it is in the college’s interest to write packages that maximize Pell grants and federal direct loans all admitted students who qualify for aid.)</p>
<p>A good example of the process I outline in my post #127 above is NYU. According to stats on the College Board web site, the average NYU financial aid package is $28,920, and on average they meet 59% of financial need.</p>
<p>Anyone familiar with NYU’s financial aid practices will know that they have a tiered approach. The top 5% of the admitted students are offered generous aid, such as full tuition or full ride scholarships. There is a middle tier of desirable students who will typically be offered grants of roughly $10,000, but not much more, no matter how great their need. And then there are students who are offered nothing but loans.</p>
<p>NYU historically has packaged their aid in a way to make parent PLUS loans look like “financial aid” – but the numbers are what they are. If a student has 0 EFC and is given the maximum in federal aid plus a $10,000 grant, that would be a very typical NYU package – but no where near 59% of actual need. On the other hand, a student from an upper middle class background with a $35,000 EFC might find that same grant comes much closer to meeting full need (I’m guessing the COA at NYU must now be around $60K).</p>
<p>NYU is a little unusual because it’s high desirability creates a greater-than-typical subset of students willing to take on a high debt load to attend. With their aid practices, that probably brings their average down, because a higher-than-typical number of students with clearly insufficient aid end up attending.</p>
<p>That brings up another factor: the stats on the average percentage of aid met are based on students who actually enroll; it does not reflect what admitted students may be offered. So it may very well be that a significantly smaller percentage of admitted students are actually offered sufficient aid packages-- its just that for most colleges, high need students with insufficient aid are far less likely to enroll.</p>
<p>Why should college be an entitlement for students of average ACT scores? Why should the college provide a free education for students with mediocre stats? I don’t think they should. If you student is top 10%, there are obviously many schools that would meet your need. </p>
<p>While we’re on this topic, and slightly related to the OP, I have to say that nothing aggravates me more than hearing students who are FAFSA poor say they got a full-ride at schools I know don’t award merit aid. No, you didn’t get a full-ride: your parents have done such a poor job of earning/saving money that our messed up aid process dictates that others should fund your schooling for you.</p>
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<p>Do you believe that such students should be punished for the mistakes of their parents, when others of similar academic performance from wealthy families can go to college (or have many more choices of colleges to attend)? Such a situation inhibits the class mobility that is a feature of meritocracy in society and economy.</p>
<p>Not necessarily. I do, however, empathize more with middle class families who–unlike less fortunate families–cannot afford to send their kids to prestigious or semi-prestigious universities that meet all or most financial need. </p>
<p>I empathize with students who, as earlier posters have mentioned, are being punished not because of their bad situation, but because their parents have saved their money wisely instead of wasting it. I know people on heating assistance who carry Coach handbags and drive new cars: their kids will see a very low EFC because they can’t manage their money.</p>
<p>Income is weighted more than anything else when looking at EFC.
Not the home you live in ( unless it is paid for), not retirement accts.</p>
<p>You also do not get heating assistance unless you can prove you are low income.
You might have a coach bag, but if it isnt a knockoff, you didnt eat for the past few months</p>
<p>Wow- MA must have alot of money.
In King County ( Seattle) a family of four cant make over $28,000 & receive heating assistance , but in Worchester MA, they can earn $60,000 & still get help
Worchester is significantly cheaper than Seattle according to the calculator.</p>
<p>@bgallo,
I share your frustration. </p>
<p>Back in the Jurassic when college tuition was affordable for a middle class family, it wasn’t so truly awful for full-pay parents. Now colleges are deliberating raising tuition to fund FA, so full-pay parents not only pay a higher tuition for their own kid, but also have to pay for another kid to have a “sleep away” experience, or else the thinking now is that these kids are being “punished”.</p>
<p>Full pay costs nowadays may be chump change for wealthy parents, but for middle class parents whose diligent savings preclude them from FA, it’s extremely frustrating.</p>
<p>your parents have done such a poor job of earning/saving money that our messed up aid process dictates that others should fund your schooling for you. </p>
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<p>Wow, really!!! I know plenty of kids whose parents don’t earn a lot of money … but I would absolutely dispute that their parents did “a poor job of earning … money.” They work their behinds off trying to provide for their families. </p>
<p>How does the world of common folk REALLY look from your high and mighty perch?</p>
<p>So if you are able to earn enough money over the years that you are able to save for college, what is the reason to explain not wanting to use those savings?</p>
<p>If it is actually for retirement, why wouldnt you put it in a retirement acct?</p>
<p>Kels, honestly, some people just aren’t worth arguing with.</p>
<p>@emerald, in our situation, money inherited early due to an unexpected death a year before our DD applied to college can not be moved in to retirement accounts fast enough due to annual contribution limits. We’ve run the numbers and know how much we need to set aside for retirement, and how much is available for each of our 3 kids for college. But because it is all currently in regular vs. Retirement Accounts our EFC is extremely high.</p>
<p>Not them I am complaining, as we are very fortunate, just pointing out that sometimes retirement funds are not nicely officially labeled as such.</p>
<p>@kelsmom </p>
<p>Is there a reason why you seem defensive? I’m not accusing everyone who qualifies for any FAFSA aid as lazy! I have, however, seen enough injustices related to FAFSA that I’m quite frankly fed up with it. Example: family 1’s child is recieving full need-based aid through Questbridge. They have bigger TV’s than we do, have Coach handbags, and qualify for heating assistance. Family 2 has an EFC of $88,000 because of a wealthy, divorced, non-custodial husband (doctor) who will be contributing mininally. Meanwhile, the mom has been jobless for half of the past year and struggles to make ends meet with child support.</p>
<p>As multiple posters have mentioned, all I request is that we don’t have to pay inflated tuition costs to fund the educational expenses of the “less fortunate”, whatever politically correct term you want to use.</p>
<p>@bgallo, and to add insult to injury, many of the top schools have eliminated merit aid. And don’t even get me started on my tax burden that also benefits these schools.</p>