<p>To the OP-- we've all been in your shoes. Schools love the parents who keep their mouths shut; parents who are involved (even if it's to help and not to criticize) are just one more thing to contend with.</p>
<p>Also agree about schools being more activist on all issues regarding Fin Aid. Every April we read about kids not being able to afford any of the schools on their admit list.... I don't think a guidance counselor needs to get into a families finances very deeply, but it's not out of line for a GC to gently suggest, "hey, in addition to all these schools, why don't we add one where the sticker price is significantly lower in case you and parents want that option come spring" or whatever. I get sad when I hear of the parents who claim they'll pay full freight for Harvard but not Skidmore, or Princeton but not Conn College.... unless the kid has some financial safeties, that's a kid heading off to local State Teacher's college and living at home for sure...</p>
<p>blossom:
[Every April we read about kids not being able to afford any of the schools on their admit list.... I don't think a guidance counselor needs to get into a families finances very deeply, but it's not out of line for a GC to gently suggest, "hey, in addition to all these schools, why don't we add one where the sticker price is significantly lower in case you and parents want that option come spring" or whatever.]</p>
<p>I've just come to the realization that these lists that GCs "help" our kids come up with are really pipe dreams in far too many instances. I know lots of kids go into the guidance office with their stats and their "majors" and come out with a list of colleges to apply to - and there has been absolutely NO discussion of finances. I mean, how can that be??? It's ridiculus.</p>
<p>This is the heart of the dilemma at many schools. How many students and parents actually know the COA at schools and the scholarship/financial aid processes? Families must discuss finances prior to admissions applications. I'm sure GCs feel that is overstepping to push the issue of finances with a student, but maybe they can distribute a list showing actual COA for the schools they are suggesting and major scholarships offered. Also an EFC calculator to reference would have been nice. Perhaps then a conversation will be inspired for the student and parents. The process is only going to get more complex with the continuing tuition increases.</p>
<p>I would advise though, especially if you are from a small school, to be very careful in how you deal with the GC and Principal. If you have younger children to consider and the same GC is likely to be around-even more important. I believe that a "miscommunication" with Ds GC at the beginning of this year caused D serious consequences in how the GC rated her. She felt very limited the first semester in requesting any information for fear of ticking her off. After Christmas break, the air was cleared somewhat, but any damage on scholarships was done. D has been able to stand on her accomplishments and other recs although the full ride scholarships were unsuccessful.</p>
<p>your note was beautifully written, and only someone who was extremely sensitive could even think it was an attack. It probably just hit her at the most busies of times -- calling on behalf of WL kids, hand-holding the rejected, etc. Go and meet and share your story. Most Gcs are way too focused on the public state U's, and have little knowledge of some of the great LACs.</p>
<p>fwiw: I once sent a e-mail to an admin at the school mentioning a "minor" typo on the HS college guide (actually, it wasn't a typo, but a glaring error). The admin said thanks, and passed it on to the head GC for corroboration, but the GC literally blew up and fired off a nasty response which was totally offpoint, with copies to my kid's TA, and the Principal. The GC flat out called me ignorant.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, the correction was made the following year</p>
<p>I thought the note made sense, and should not have stirred anything up.</p>
<p>One thing that I believe happens in guidance is the "dry cleaners syndrome" (sorry dry cleaners!) They approach their job with resonable professionalism, try to do a good job for everyone, but if something goes wrong, or if something could be improved, its not their fault and not their responsibilty. (The dry cleaners actually have signs made up by their trade organizations that essentially say this.) </p>
<p>Also, I think they have trouble managing expectations down, since they do have the problems that parents tend to blame the guidance counselors for everything that is less than great about their applications and admissions experience. She probably has no interest whatsoever in creating an impression among (possibly all the wrong) families that they might qualify for merit aid if they just look into the right schools. Just another thing that three dozen applicants will hope for and four will get.</p>
<p>In any case, I didn't see anything to object about in the letter. Your counselor must be young. Some of the older ones are smart enough not to let you know they are angry.</p>
<p>thank you again, all
bluebayou - it was great to see a similar experience
dadx - you have given me another good insight; the "help" I am suggesting they give may create just one more opportunity for family dissatisfaction (as GC might see it)</p>
<p>btw, this is a very experienced, roughly my age (ie older than the hills) person; her reaction really surprised me.</p>
<p>As a high confilict personality in a high conflict field, I often have to find ways to introduce clients and/or belligerant contractors to concepts they haven't heard about before--without getting the nail gun aimed at my head.. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>By cc'ing the Headmaster and Head GC, the note INDIRECTLY and PUBLICLY criticized the GCs performance--after your S got such great packages. After she did her best. I'd be stung too. </p></li>
<li><p>You forgot the politics of her (?) job. Those are her bosses. Realistically, why DID you cc them? Couldn't you implement that change without them? Was there a tiny bit of self-glory in those cc's? Just asking. </p></li>
<li><p>Your gratitude was a tiny percentage of the overall letter. The bulk of the letter was directed toward how she could improve herself after a long and successful season. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Would you do that to an athlete? Hey, great touchdown but did you know that if you ran in this particular zig zag pattern you could get to the finish line a little faster? <em>covers face as athlete tries to punch you in the nose</em></p>
<ol>
<li><p>There was probably a better way to do that sales job. In person? With facts and figures and materials she could incorporate into her files?
More of a 'gift' than a critique? A package to help her look better rather than worse?</p></li>
<li><p>Elementary and high schools are low conflict places. School employees work at schools because they truly love heaps of students. Love them. School staff have a difficult time coping with high conflict parents--even hard-boiled staff. It isn't their modus operandi--and we wouldn't want them to change. We want them to love our kids. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Your letter wasn't high conflict but some of the posts suggest taking a higher conflict position. I would counsel against that.</p>
<p>Finally, and I say this out of experience, as someone who often has to issue apologies, you cannot apologize enough.</p>
<p>Just want to add that I also think the note was well written and well intentioned. Too bad the guidance counselor took it the wrong way. Luckily the head to the department understands the value of this information to many families, especially those who do not qualify for need based aid but find the 40K+ costs out of reach. I will add that the student doesn't even need to have 1300+ SATs. My daughter has mid 1200's and a B+ average and received merit awards at 4 of the 8 schools she applied to - 2 of them were substantial and came as a complete surprise to us.</p>
<p>cheers - I really appreciate those of you who can see how it felt to her, which I obviously missed. Very helpful and I totally agree with you one can never apologize enough. I do not plan on taking any higher conflict position, and am looking for ways to restore good feelings. You helped.</p>
<p>Cheers, I disagree that high schools are low-conflict places. I work as a sub and I see conflict every single day. Parents who come in assuming a teacher can see them NOW and are furious because the teacher actually isn't there; students who think they're entitled to an hour of tutoring when other students are waiting. Parents who end up with restraining orders barring them from the campus because they won't stop abusing teachers. When I worked full-time, I routinely let the principal know which kids I'd flunked and why, because I knew she'd get screaming phone calls as soon as the parents knew.</p>
<p>In a nice suburban school, I might add.</p>
<p>I repeat: the letter was just fine, the GC should get over it, if that's the worst criticism she ever gets, she'll be very very fortunate. Just wait until the kid doesn't get into the local state college and the parent shows up in her office furious, dragging an ashamed kid!</p>
<p>jmmom I agree with the idea that it's the cc: of the manager that caused the issue. We can't know her history with her boss or colleagues. So, yeah, just apologize a lot and I bet she will get over it fast. Just that fact that you felt distress about her upset probably means that she will know you are being sincere. Not that you aren't right in what you said, you don't have to back off the value of your points, I think the apology is on the emotional not the factual level. If any of that makes sense since I am trying trying trying to get out of my office....</p>
<p>DD's counselor had a very good way of probing the "money thing". She holds a group meeting with all the juniors, passes out forms, goes over what info they need to gather. Then the same week there is a group meeting with the parents, passes out more forms, gives a brief rundown on what should be accomplished before the end of junior year. Then at the end of the meeting she invites parents for an individual session, with out the child - both parent and child have forms to fill out and submit to the college office before this meeting, and the child has to have a one on one with the counselor before the parents' meeting. Students in certain circumstances (basically either extreme of the class,top & bottom) are encouraged to come ASAP. At that private meeting with the parents she feels out the money situation, very carefully, very tactfully (she's been doing this awhile!). This doesn't prevent misunderstandings, but at least she has tried. If parents are honest with her, she will steer the kids in the right direction.</p>
<p>dmd. you're right. What I meant to say was that the staff who work at schools are low-conflict by nature--which allows them to love so many. In an ideal world, that translates to a low-conflict place but I know that those places can be over-run.</p>
<p>By people like me. Who have been on jobsites all day, haranguing big burly guys with metal weapons attached to their belts. </p>
<p>I learned this by being on the board of a private elementary school. Prior to that experience, I'd never noticed that there are different 'conflict' cultures. Since then, I have learned to dial back my usual, "You talkin' to ME?" high-conflict stance.
:eek:</p>
<p>jmmom - just remember "No good deed goes unpunished!"
Your note was fine. And...it will all blow over.
I remember talking on Tulane thread w you earlier when my S was still undecided. Good luck and try to move on.</p>