So I’m wrapping up my senior year, and would like to reflect and answer some questions that have been raised by applicants to LPS.
I started off as a transfer to LPS when it was CGS. I applied with 3 semesters of fine art at two community colleges. My GPA was 3.3-3.4. I was accepted the same month I applied (I was also accepted to the Tyler School of Art the same year). There was no interview at all. I was informed that I needed a 2.5 GPA while taking at least 3 courses the first semester. After I passed, I was officially accepted and met with my new academic counselor.
I tried to submit my art courses to XCAT. None of them were accepted. This was a huge disappointment, as Tyler accepted all of my previous coursework conditionally. Instead of withdrawing and transferring to Tyler, I decided to stick out the next semester and see how I felt. Either way, I was going to lose a year to transferring schools or add a year of work finish at Penn.
For my first year I was undeclared, but took art history and anthropology courses full time under the LPS sections. To address concerns that only adjuncts teach these 600 level LPS courses: for the most part they do not, and if they are, they are of very good quality. Out of every semester of 4 courses, 1 has been taught by an adjunct. Only two of the adjuncts were of mediocre quality. In my LPS taught courses, over 90% of the students were from the College. Only in the required Writing classes is the enrollment explicitly LPS. The adjuncts vary from ABD PHD students to established researchers teaching part-time, and visiting Fellows with teaching experience at the university level (two art professors were also fellows at the Philadelphia Museum of Art). So yes, there is a degree of adjunct professors within LPS, but you will find out that a finished PHD student at Penn can be 40 years old, undergrad degrees from the best schools, and top-flight researcher material. They do not allow masters students who do not care to teach. Which brings me to my next point. There are no TA’s in LPS, which means no recitations. I found this quite pleasant. There are TA’s for almost every day course. These are usually master’s students and early PHD candidates.
For the required sectors the integration of College and LPS was unnoticable, by which I mean there was no discernable difference in the course work, level of engagement or discourse than other college day courses. Because LPS students take day courses, and College students take sectors taught in LPS -let me be clear- there is no difference in composition between the two. But overall, the level of instructor was higher in my major courses. This is because the best professors teach the upper level seminars that are required to graduate. But even for my lower level classes in LPS, I have had tenured professors who are also department deans etc. A lot of variation comes with what department you study in. In Art History, there are very few LPS classes. In fact, only 3 of my 14 would come from LPS. When I added an Anthropology Major, half of my classes were LPS, but again, only 2 were taught by Adjuncts (who now have tenure track positions). Furthermore, I have not taken a single class that is over 30 students. The ratio is fantastic, especially in seminars where the professor really gets to know you. Contrasted with the 300+ student classes for intro courses during the day (seat-filling money makers), I’d say this has been a huge benefit.
I have been fortunate that almost every class was taught in the Penn Museum. Since my first week, I have been doing research in the Museum. While my professors are aware that I am in LPS, they have admitted that they prefer LPS students to College kids. Some have noted we are more professional, fastidious and achieve better grades than College students. They appreciate our maturity, composure and anecdotes we bring to the discussion. I have been able to garner over 10 references from the faculty based on reciprocity, rather than pleading for a ref later. I know the letters will be written in both academic and personable terms. Being more on par with your professors in these ways is actually a benefit for your post academic or academic career. In short, if you attend LPS, do make the time to confer with your professor that your are a non-trad, and get to know them better. Most professors could not care less what an 18 year old freshman did the year before, because most have not done anything of note. I am not looking down on the College kids, but would like to clarify the debate that LPS students are not the “weird ones in that one class,” but quite the opposite. To your professor, if you make it so, you will come out as the more cherished student.
How difficult is LPS? It is identical to the College, except for the one or two classes that have an inferior adjunct. And as I stated, the College students dealt with these adjuncts. It is not partial to LPS. At graduation I will not lament the fact that 2 out of 34 of my classes were stinkers. It is natural at any school. The most difficult classes I have found are the language and writing courses, as well as any seminar that is in the major. The core of the issue is volume of work. You will write so much at Penn that you will assuredly be exhausted. More so, the quality expected is very, very high. You do not get points in this category for being in LPS. Everything is expected of you, just as much as the 18 year old sitting next to you. This becomes a problem in negotiating your schedule. For me, as with my LPS classmates, I work full time. My first two years I worked 40hrs/wk while taking 4 classes a semester. I ended up with a 3.2GPA. In my junior year I added a major and took upper level courses. This was the time I needed to reduce my working hours to cope with the increasing amount of work. Seminars and Upper level courses require a large amount of research, writing and reading. Do not take this fact lightly. If you work more than 40hrs/wk and go full time while taking upper division classes, something will give. Trust me. Just make sure you love what you are studying, and this will go a long way.
Independent Research is allowed for LPS students, as I reiterate, there is no difference in their student profile. However, my advisers were surprised when I signed up for the Honors thesis because no one could remember the last time a LPS student wrote one. This was also a shock to me. I presume that due to time commitments, this is not undertaken. Also, some LPS students already have professional skills. A thesis is usually the way to a job after Penn, therefore there is not as much incentive. I chose to do a thesis because it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to work with professors who are experts in their field. I am doing my work in anatomy (what I started out with in CC), and am now working side by side with surgeons at the hospital. Just because you are a non-trad means that there is a stigma to your past and presence. It can be the opposite if you apply yourself.
Integration into Penn is by far the hardest aspect of the school. The counselors are a joke (although they are slowly improving) and have no clue. The deans will never know who you are, unless you have a 4.0 GPA. If you are over 30, the teenage students will ignore you without fail. You are not part of their cohort, and never will be. It is very much like high school, but reversed. You are not added to any lists unless you ask. If you don’t ask- you will know nothing. Penn is a very social school -and it certainly feels this way- however if you are not part of the typical College/Wharton/Engineering undergrad community since your freshman year you will likely never be. Much of the prestige that surrounds Penn (and any Ivy I imagine) is not so much the academics, but the associated privilege. Essentially, it is gaining access through social means to befriend another person who stands on the backs of their parents and parents friend’s successes. This esteem is never confronted in academia, but this is the only thing I’ve heard these undergrads value (I’ve talked to quite a few of them about this). Since I was the age of a senior when I was a freshman matriculate, this was the most awkward year. The disconnect was surreal. While I wasn’t ridiculed to my face, most told me that I was indeed ridiculous for being here. I’m still processing some of these moments, but now I just laugh. If you are an LPS student, it is more likely you will befriend grad students. Some of my good friends are in the master’s and PHD programs. This has been a saving grace in the social realm. Here you meet people who have truly proven themselves as young adults. They are much more impressive than the undergrad kids, and infinitely more intelligent, humble and personable. If you are equally cordial, they will include you into there graduate community -a benefit that eludes most typical undergraduates.
There is one large caveat about Penn if you applying. The cost. If you are over 26, unmarried with a low-paying job: do not hesitate to apply. If you are under 26, please read the following carefully. Penn has recently instituted a No-Loan policy. This is unequivocally a pernicious lie. What Penn means to say, there is a No-Loan policy for TUITION. At 50K in debt (all Federal), I think this speaks for itself. The reason is the enormous cost of attendance to this school. Non-tuition costs that will not be covered by a No-Loan policy: required health insurance- 3200/year
Fees- 3800/yr
Books- 500-1000/yr
Mandatory Rec fee- 300/yr
Estimated Family Contribution- Varies (For me 4000/yr)
Please know that until you are the age 26, Penn will automatically use your parent’s financial information. If you are an LPS applicant, your parents probably play no role in your finances. However, if you are under 26 and your parents make more than 60k/yr, you have to come up with remainder due to the wonderful EFC. I am still struggling with the consequence of taking out so much money. I will give you my thoughts on this rewards/financial incursion dynamic.
The average graduating debt for undergrads from UPENN is $32,119. This places me on the high side of debt. Is it worth it? Well, I am not sure yet. I have yet to find out if the debt can reasonably be paid off. In almost every way, the academics have been exactly on par with the education a typical undergraduate receives. Therefore, the ratio of debt to tuition can be assumed at 50k debt to the quoted $191,000 tuition. But if I compare my debt to the tuition of LPS, it looks like I’m getting a much worse deal.
I compared the return on interest from Penn to the other school I was accepted- Temple University. To gauge the value of one’s debt (or in some cases worthlessness), it is important to calculate both average ROI from the school, and the projected salary growth of the field one enters (roughly based on one’s major).
Penn: NET ROI= $1.3 million
Temple: Net ROI ~$420,000
For those on Financial aid at Penn (like me), that number is even more exaggerated. I calculated cost of attendance for myself at Temple (a public school): 40K in loans. For 10K in initial loans, my ROI is expected to be almost 3x of Temple’.
However, the kicker is what you want to do with your major and your future work. These decisions played heavily into my final decisions to make art my minor, and concentrate in Human Biology. I can stress or downplay parts of my finished schooling, but I know as well as anybody that even a art major from Harvard will not earn significantly more than someone from a state school.
If you have not looked into these evaluations before you apply (as I did not), you should. I lament the fact that I initially did not factor all of these valuables. That being said, look more closely at your major’s earning potential to your expected debt. These things will never change for any student. I assume my school’s name will give me certain consideration, and will always be on my resume. However I cannot rely on it solely. I won’t be able to pay off my debt with an astrophysics major from Penn, because I am **** at physics and this will be exposed immediately after graduation.
I would encourage using Penn LPS as a stepping stone to boost your earning potential. But if you just want any old degree in the Romance languages, and are not going on to earn a PHD- you may not get what you bargained for. Buyer Beware.