Asians are discriminated against. THE END!
Proof by repeated assertion, then? Well…
Search up Asians being discriminated against in the college admissions process. You’ll find all the evidence you need.
I don’t want to be the one to add fuel to the fire, but a 2009 study done at Princeton showed that the disadvantage was much greater.
“To top the fear, a National Study of College Experience led by Espenshade and Radford (2009) showed that a student who self-identifies as Asian will need 140 SAT points higher than whites, 320 SAT points higher than Hispanics, and 450 SAT points higher than African Americans.”
Source: http://www.apa.org/pi/oema/resources/ethnicity-health/asian-american/article-admission.aspx
Mind you, that’s on a 1600 scale.
Now I understand that lower income families have less opportunities and that Asians are generally somewhat better off than members of other races, but does this socioeconomic gap really justify such vast differences? I think this warrants another study, one that controls for family income . If an upper class non-Asian has an advantage over a lower class Asian… Well then that’s just downright racial discrimination.
I’m all for socioeconomic affirmative action. I’m fine with someone getting an SAT score boost for being poorer and having fewer opportunities. I’m not fine with somebody who can afford private tutors having an advantage over me (a middle class white international applicant-if it matters) because of their skin color.
qpq: you don’t know these things. You can claim them as opinion or speculation.
Asian Am kids are not reviewed as a group by the elites. What you may find is that some kids in the same hs are naturally coming from the same school context.
The percentage of As-Am applicants to H is not 20 %.
The “evidence” you will find is usually from Asian-Am advocacy groups and some of those articles NYT and WSJ put out to be, well, interesting.
I happen to find the stereotypes of Asian American kids offensive. And equally so, the assumptions made about African Am and Hispanic kids.
Btw, 2010 Census puts the number of Asians in CA at about 5 million (someone can check that.) MA, as one example, was listed at about 350,000.
@florida26 And? That doesn’t change California’s overall demographic. Just because the races aren’t evenly distributed around California (races are rarely evenly distributed around an area) does not mean the overall demographic is incorrect.
Burak:
You are repeating a widespread misperception.
Espenshade (again, I said it earlier) told people not to rely on his findings. It’s from the applicant pool of 3 colleges in 83, 93, and 97. He did not look at full applications packages.
And when you review an app, you are not “adding” or “subtracting” numbers from someone’s scores.
I find it sad people are trying to prove Asians are not discriminated against when they blatantly are. Race is a factor and colleges even admit it.
I bet all of you who are saying Asians are treated fairly in the college admissions process are not Asian.
@Qwerty568 Look at Stanford’s Asian percentage VS Berkeley’s. 22% vs 40%.
@qpqpqp that’s because Stanford is allowed to utilize AA while Berk is race blind. It’s very obvious the level of discrimination against Asian students. Whether or not it is fair is not really an argument I want to get into.
I thought we all already knew that Asian Americans were discriminated against. There have been many discussions about this.
No Asian Americans are not discriminated against. NO matter how many times you repeat the same assertion does not make it true. Lets try something different than proof by repeated assertion. In California whites do better than Asians on AP exams. So one could reasonably conclude that there should be three times as many whites at Berkeley than Asians but there is not. Why is that? Also California Asians in the latest field poll support affirmative action by a ratio of 5 to 1. Why is that? Stanford uses holistic admissions which means they consider income, parents education, and many different factors in reaching their decision. Many blacks and Hispanics do not possess the advantages that other races possess
I’ll say one last thing. The elites you covet are holistic. They look at more than SAT, their decisions are not hierarchical, based on stats. And yet, some of you insist that since scores may be higher for one group, by golly, if they don’t predominate on campus, it must be discrimination.
But at the private elites and many publics, admits are NOT top-down, based on stats. So why keep saying this or that about…stats? And why keep going back to a study the lead guy says is painfully limited? And more than ten years old, based on data as far back as 1983? That’s not enough.
Some of you are in hs. If you are aiming for top schools, be top school quality: take a look at what they tell you they look for. It’s there. Get to know these schools well, not just by rep, not just what you think they can do for you and your future. Each one has a flavor and expectations. Do the work, don’t assume. You have an extensive application to fill out, essays to write, activities to list, questions to answer, and every piece is looked at and represents you, the candidate. It’s not…just…stats. Even at UCB. Good luck.
ps. Stanford an it’s sisters have assets they look for that go beyond family situation. Many of the URMs some so easily dismiss are out there achieving, too. Taking rigor, getting A’s, getting great LoRs, having impact in their communities and more. Watch out for stereotyping and generalizing. It’ll bite you.
So you excused Harvard for a low asian %.
What about stanford, which has an even lower % of asian-americans (just 19%!!!) while being situated in the Bay Area with over 40% of its students coming from California! If they didn’t discriminate against asian-americans and admitted 43% asian even just within their california pool, that would be 18% asian-american already! Do you really think that only 1% of the remaining 60% from the rest of the country would be asian-american if they weren’t discriminated against?
The Duke study found that the asian americans had the highest GPA, highest test scores, best grades at Duke, and had higher rated personal qualities, recs, and ECs. Oh, and they had a lower socioeconomic profile than the the white students and a very similar level with the hispanic students. Still going to say they weren’t being held to a higher standard?
As the asian-american population roughly doubled over the past twenty years, why has their percentage at elite schools like harvard, stanford et. al remained roughly the same?
For anyone who doesn’t want to deny the stats and live in a fantasy world, it is plain obvious what is happening.
Well, @theanaconda, let’s start out with a good baseline, then: What’s the percentage of Stanford’s applicant pool who are Asian-American?
Also, if you’re going to compare a school’s demographics with the local population and compare them along one dimension, you really ought to make sure the populations being compared are equivalent in other dimensions first. So, for example, are you comparing Stanford’s population by ethnicity with the local college-age population generally? I’m pretty certain you’re not.
It would not be surprising if the educational differences between Asian and other students went away after controlling for whether one’s parents are immigrants who originally came on F-1 (student, usually for PhD study) or H-1B (skilled worker) and similar visas. The immigration system acts as a selection process that filters the incoming Asian population to favor high academic achievers whose kids are more likely than average to be high academic achievers (regardless of how much you think is nature versus nuture, either way points toward a better chance of high academic achievement for their kids).
Compare University of California San Diego and University of San Diego. These schools are broadly similar, although UCSD is bigger, except that UCSD is not allowed to discriminate by race, while USD is. Result: UCSD is 45.1% Asian, while USD is 6.3%.
I guess the Chinese Exclusion Act is still applied at USD.
Are you seriously suggesting that some poor kid recently arrived from Vietnam or India should be given preference over Sasha & Mallia? How dare you! The word would end!
It is regularly claimed (including in academic studies such as the Bell Curve) and regularly disputed. However, all right thinking people know that there cannot be inherent or genetic differences between the races. If there were, the NFL might be more than 12% African-American.
The problem with this question is taking one study to be definitive, without ANY knowledge of what decisions were made in terms of assumptions. Is SAT score independent of GPA? Is level of ECs, and quality of ECs (individual ECs count less than team or group ECs) taken out of the equation?
And OMG - the statement in the article “Helping Asian-American students, many of whom lead similar lives, requires the embrace of some stereotypes, says Crystal Zell, HS2’s assistant director of counseling.” is EXTREMELY biased. “Many of whom lead similar lives”? Really? There is a reason why our local NPR station has stories about dirt poor Asians in Chinatown NYC, and also Indian immigrants brought over illegally in a 50 mile radius of NYC. My son has more than a few friends who are Asian and aren’t the top of the class - the top of his class is a white kid who is lower middle class with divorced parents in terms of demographics.
That STL article is disgusting. And it was distributed too, it was in the LA Times (possibly originally).
And, 2004 ladies and gentlemen, two freaking thousand and four:
http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/files/webAdmission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20Walling%20Dec%202004.pdf
THIS IS BASED ON A STUDY FROM 2004, WHICH IS FURTHER BASED ON DATA FROM:
1983 (or a similar year, per the journal article)
1993, and
1997.
THEY ARE USING VERY VERY OLD DATA TO SPREAD STEREOTYPES AND RACE BAIT!!!
NO SOCIOECONOMIC DATA NOTED!!!