For thoes of us who don't want to go to Ivy's for UNDERGRAD

<p>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>katia11, if you're interested in St. Johns, you should definitely apply, i was also really interested in the school and the concept of the entire education based on actually reading all of the materia, but ended up not applying there, had concerns about my major/career goal</p>

<p>Besides the facts that 1) I probably wouldnt get in to one of those schools anyways, and 2) I'm SICK and TIRED of these damn competitive environments, I really just want an undergrad school that is large and has a large variety of opportunities, along with generally being pretty chill. I also don't want to blow my parents' bank account for an undergrad education that I could just as well get at a public college. And my parents are not the biggest fans of me going to an out-of-state college for my undergrad.</p>

<p>^i agree. i love big sports colleges with a plethora of opportunities.</p>

<p>icekiss45 said:
"would it be better if other school formed their own leagues...for example, if the "Oak League" consisted of top notch souther schools like Vanderbilt, Tulane, etc.? Or is the whole "League" thing overated anyway?"</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ivies%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ivies&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There was a failed effort to start a "Magnolia League."</p>

<p>Hi.</p>

<p>I could have probably gotten into any Ivy, but I chose not to.</p>

<p>Three reasons:
-Ivies tend to be filled with rich kids. I'd prefer a school that gives people a leg up. Kids on the way up tend to be just as ambitious (in my experience, more) than those who already have it made and are simply following the path set out by their parents. At my school, 99% of students get financial aid of some sort. And, for many people, it's still not enough to meet the $35k a year cost of the education here, but the lengths they go to to secure it is amazing. Dedication on and off the court.
-As an earlier poster said "don't follow the well-traveled path, go where there is no path." The average ACT at my school is 29 (SAT about 1250). The professors are here for the bright - but not insanely brilliant - students, meaning that if you are better than the batch, you have a faculty with the intellectual ability to handle you, yet you can still stand out. Not so with the Ivy's. It's possible to stand out, but it's hard to stand out too much.
- I'd rather my school not think it's perfect. It seems as if the Ivy's think, because of their prestige, they are infallible, the epitome of a great college. My college knows it has room to improve, and so puts concerted effort into becoming better everyday. Not better, in the sense of more prestigious, but better in terms of giving its students more. It's a completely different intent than that of the Ivies, and I think much more to the essentials of what Higher Education institutions are supposed to be.</p>

<p>Finally, a graduate of my college currently heads Motorola. There is no proof that the only way to success is thru the Ivy League.</p>

<p>Just a random thing: Speaking of paths that are well-traveled, the graduating class of 2006 at my school had their graduation theme/thought as "The Road Less Traveled"...and all the graduation speakers had their speeches focused around that central theme. Yeah ok sorry for the ADD, baCK ON TOPIC.</p>

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-some don't offer undergrads very good experience (too focused on graduate students)

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<p>That's even more true at many, many other schools. Although I do think many people don't understand how Princeton and Dartmouth is better than pretty much any other Ivy when it comes to undergrad attention.</p>

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Helps keep college GPA up for med. school

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<p>Actually, the Ivies all have a lot of grade inflation (yes even Cornell, I think the average is a 3.4...someone posted this; I could be wrong) while the national average for average college GPA is around 3.0. Also, schools like Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, sends some ridiculous number like 90%+ pre-med into medical schools, whereas nationally, I think about 50% of all pre-med get rejected from every single medical school they apply to. I mean, it's harder to get a good GPA at a place like Berkeley, yet according to released stats the accepted candidates from Berkeley had HIGHER GPAs than those who attended HYP.</p>

<p>
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would it be better if other school formed their own leagues...for example, if the "Oak League" consisted of top notch souther schools like Vanderbilt, Tulane, etc.? Or is the whole "League" thing overated anyway?

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<p>I don't think it matters. The average person has never heard of "Dartmouth" or "The University of Pennsylvania." I mean, Penn State, a much worse school, is better known. If a school is good, it will be known. That's my opinion.</p>

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I don't think that there is enough attention given to the undergrad students and I personally wanted to be in a smaller, less competitive environment.

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<p>Yep. I think more people should consider LACs.</p>

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It is pretty much an accepted fact that if you go to an ivy league school u will have more oppurtunites immediately after u graduate than say if u go to Penn State or even something like U of Michigian.

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<p>No, I think what matters more is what you do there. It's probably true that someone who performed at the same level will probably have more opportunities coming from an Ivy. But all you get is opportunities.</p>

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As a result, the true intellectuals will seek out the place that they feel will give them the best possible education for them. This might be an Ivy League school, it might not be.

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<p>Ironically, I think many go to a selective college because of the quality of the STUDENTS. You learn a lot through peers, and why not surround yourself with high quality, intelligent peers?</p>

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Ivies tend to be filled with rich kids. I'd prefer a school that gives people a leg up. Kids on the way up tend to be just as ambitious (in my experience, more) than those who already have it made and are simply following the path set out by their parents. At my school, 99% of students get financial aid of some sort. And, for many people, it's still not enough to meet the $35k a year cost of the education here, but the lengths they go to to secure it is amazing. Dedication on and off the court.

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<p>I think you are harshly overgeneralizing here. Many people who attend Ivies are not rich. The Ivies are need-blind and judge by your accomplishments, not your wealth (unless you donated a building). Students get financial aid because these schools have large endowments and want to make sure that those who are good enough to get in should be able to afford it.</p>

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I'd rather my school not think it's perfect.

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<p>I don't think anyone thinks the Ivy League schools are perfect. Far from it. I do think though, that they provide a better education and more opportunities than almost any other school in the nation. And that's a pretty good reason to attend right there.</p>

<p>p.s. why is this page so stretched?</p>

<p>^ well analyzed! thanks for you input.</p>

<p>well who pays 200 grand for education when it's pretty much the same as a tier 2 college?</p>

<p>also, the people there aren't very fun to be around and aren't very pretty inside or outside -_- </p>

<p>this is my opinion on what I have logically seen at top schools but oh well you can't have a perfect school can you? either you go to Arizona State University and party with the finest and coolest outgoing girls... or you sttudy 24/7 at an ivy league with girls that have hair shorter than yours and that read national geographic on friday nights... i guess you pick what you want... I personally would go to an ivy though just based on the name and prestige... otherwise ivies are useless.... social life is like a B- average</p>

<p>^</p>

<p>Wow, talk about evidence and argument based on stereotypes.</p>

<p>how old is the skywalk kid? 8?</p>

<p>just about everything he said was retarded.</p>

<p>i think the original point was that going to an ivy is immediately much more impressive than going just about anywhere else. yes, you could still fail to get an awesome job - but percentage-wise if you compare someone with 3.5 from harvard with someone with the same grade from, say, NYU, the harvard applicant already has the balance in their favour. The NYU student may be more impressive at interview, more personable, have better social skills and a better insight into what they want to get out of life, and so they get the job - but at face value, if two people are identical but one went to harvard and the other didn't, you'd have to bet on the harvard graduate to succeed. its not a guarantee for success, but it does give you an advantage right at the start of your professional life.</p>

<p>Talk about skywalk...he has another thread that is just competely bs somewhere on this board. It was lol funny because frankly...there was something really retarded about it.</p>

<p>i hate when people say that "agree to disagree" because if they other doesn't agree it is still an argument. skibob is clearly right though. he isn't saying that Ivy's mean u will have the best future but it does, and this is undeniable, give u head start.</p>

<p>laldm, you go to RPI?</p>

<p>I would die if every1 i knew was validictorian (northwestern wont be QUITE as bad...)</p>

<p>wait ... um
i'm actually 21 and I go to Harvard and it's the worst school... like 10 kids are transfering out...</p>

<p>please don't take offense to this:</p>

<p>boring life, ugly girls...far from home.. I mean what could be worse?</p>

<p>I guess go swimming in the Charles River...
This is based on what I believe so my last post i dunno w/e you guys say... I guess I'm "completely retarted"</p>

<p>Watch legally blonde and watch how desperate the admission officers are for hot girls...case closed your done</p>

<p>And ivies are 200 K... and you get the same education anywhere else right? but i guess the rich boys/ girls can afford it so it's all good.</p>

<p>I don't udnerstand... this is a question threa dand I answered it... What more do you want? This isn't a debate and i'm giving my insight so gtfo out!</p>

<p>^ u seriously go to HARVARD! i couldnt tell.</p>

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wait ... um
i'm actually 21 and I go to Harvard

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<p>Don't believe you.</p>

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and it's the worst school... like 10 kids are transfering out...

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<p>964 kids are trying to transfer in so it can't be that bad.</p>

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boring life, ugly girls...far from home.. I mean what could be worse?

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<p>The girls are not different from other girls at other colleges when taken as a whole. And it's only far from YOUR home. That's not a valid argument as a weakness of the school.</p>

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Watch legally blonde and watch how desperate the admission officers are for hot girls...case closed your done

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<p>Even though the film was blatantly inaccurate and wasn't even filmed at Harvard, with any of the Harvard staff.</p>

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And ivies are 200 K... and you get the same education anywhere else right? but i guess the rich boys/ girls can afford it so it's all good.

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<p>You seem to forget that so are almost all other private schools, and many public schools if you're from out of state, and that Ivies are more generous with financial aid than most other schools. But tell me, why do you seem to despise these "rich boys/girls" so much if you, as you claim, go to Harvard and would then be one of these "rich boys/girls"?</p>