I’m senior now and well it’s time to decide on colleges. I live in VA and have pretty good scores and ec’s with leader ship positions. 3.95 gpa, hard classes, 1720 sat, rank 66/280 leader of many clubs and in like 5 honor societies. I plan on applying to in state colleges like jmu, uva, vcu, cnu, vt, mix of reach and matches.
However I have friends and many other people applying to ivy’s and I ask them why. I swear 85% percent of them said something related to prestige. Other 15 said something about programs, legacy, or dreams since childhood. Is there some advantage if you go to Ivies for undergrad? I mean it looks good on your diploma, but what else? Just goals for no reason? Not to mention the cost… I only tried a little in high school so I could get into some decent colleges while also looking good at graduation with honor cords and stuff, and also enjoy some fun while it lasted. However, I plan to work my but off in college for med school (my goal), and I have good reasons for wanting to go to an Ivy league Med school, but not the issue. What do Ivies offer students in undergrad? nobody in my school or Yahoo Answers could give me decent answer…
In addition to the colleges you’re considering, you might want to look into George Mason. As for your classmates, well, let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully they have some good matches and safeties as well!
Prestige is a big draw, sure, but the Ivies (and similar top universities) do offer some nice benefits – strong academics, relatively small classes, state-of-the-art facilities, some of the best and brightest students to learn from/with, money to fund undergraduate research and bring interesting speakers to campus, great financial aid, etc…
Not all Ivies are the same but speaking generally: Bragging rights in some circles. An assumption by others that you are smart (at least until they get to know you better). A talented and reasonably interesting student body. A lot of resources arising from big endowments - grant money, new facilities, etc… Connected alumni. More research opportunities at some places. Possibly more recruiters coming to your school in senior year. Possibly better connections for internships while you are there. Pretty architecture in some cases. Weather with 4 seasons - one of which is pretty awful. And for some, generous financial aid.
Frankly, you can get some or all of these things at many non-Ivy schools. Whether these things have value to you depend a great deal on who you are, where you want to end up professionally and geographically, what kind of social circles you hope to move in, what your parents and friends think (if you care), how much money you have/need for college, etc…
I have to agree with @warblersrule on this. Most people try for the Ivies for prestige. However, I think you’re wise to realize that where you get your med degree will have much more impact. Look into places where you can get a merit scholarship based on your GPA (maybe work on raising your SAT, the test is December 12) in order to save your money for medical school.
@warblersrule I’ve thought of GMU, Is it good for a pre med student? like high acceptance rate into med school? I can afford it and its matches me, but I dont know much else about it.
Well for one thing you have a peer group who didn’t only try a little in high school. You get to be around other people who take school seriously and are very good at it, all the time, and as a bonus many of them also excel in other areas like sports and music. That’s an amazing experience.
In addition, in some fields (not medicine) it really does matter where you went to school. Investment banking and management consulting are among them, but there are others.
Ivies offer some of the best financial aid around. Depending on your family’s income, Harvard for example may end up being comparable in cost to, perhaps even cheaper than, the state schools you’re applying to.
I’ve watched a number of online lectures put out by top universities to study for the same courses at my mid tier state flagship. With few exceptions, the courses at those universities seem to be much more rigorous than the same ones at my current school.
For instance, I recently needed to go over the mechanics of an algorithm, and decided to clarify the concept by watching Harvard’s CS50, an intro computer science course. Not only did the professor explain why the algorithm was working, but he also went into a discussion on more advanced concepts than what we had covered. This is not an isolated incident. I’ve seen the same thing for courses ranging from European History at Yale to chemistry at MIT.
I’ve also spoken to one of my professors about this. He stated that when he attempted to teach at the level he was exposed to as an undergrad (his bachelors and phD are from two top universities), almost everyone failed. Keep in mind that my school’s 25-75% ACT range is well above the national average. It’s not as though it is a school comprised of those who barely graduated high school. These are better than average students, but by and large, most students here are much weaker academically than their peers at top universities.
I can confirm this. I went to H for undergrad and taught at a lower-ranked (but still top 10) university. I taught pretty much exactly the same course that I had taken as an undergrad. And I found I had to slow things down - not by much, but enough - or else there came a point fairly quickly where the whole class flashed me the deer in headlights look.
whenhen, I think there are huge differences in rigor of courses across schools. Others have disagreed but there is plenty of support for it. I’ve argued with people on this site who contend that there is likely to be little difference in the lower level classes between a course at CC and one at a high powered competitive school. Seems to me an absurd idea. Some schools will allow an AP score of a 3 to count for a distribution requirement in, say, a science. My understanding is that MIT may cover the material in a AP class in a matter of a couple of weeks.
@NavalTradition Question for you! I’ve heard that many Ivy league students often go into debt? Is this for grads or undergrads, or am I just misinformed.
Some time ago, Harvard (along with some other top-tier schools) adopted a no-loans policy. That means everything besides your family contribution is awarded in grants rather than loans:
Now, some families may decide their assessed family contribution is too steep and take out loans anyway, but Harvard’s all-grants policy is still an amazingly good deal. Families making 65K or less are assessed a family contribution of $0, and for families making up to $150K, it’s limited to 10% of household income. That’s a a great deal.
You can figure out what your family would hypothetically pay at Harvard here:
So, I think most of what your hearing is likely to be sour grapes. Schools like George Washington, NYU, that’s a different story - people take out crazy debt to go there.
I graduated H with $0 debt, FWIW.
This is for undergrad. Law and med school is I’m pretty sure a horse of a different color.
Your SAT score and (for those which consider it) rank are very low compared to those admitted to super-selective schools. (And is your GPA weighted or unweighted?)
@NavalTradition Thanks just out of curiosity since you went to Harvard, Was your experience there okay, great, or amazing? It makes sense that the classes are significantly harder, and I expect that from any top school, but if I went to a pretty average school like VCU for pre-med, but then got accepted into John Hopkins would I struggle much more than other students?
@ucbalumnus its weighted, its the score my highschool gives me. My unweighted which I had to calculate by myself was a 3.7. The SAT really is not going higher for me, I tried 4 times and its not going up by much. It also tests me on the two subjects I suck at lol math and english.
Opinions vary as to which schools are most worth an investment of money and effort. This is what CollegeXpress says in “The Experts’ Choice: Colleges Worth Every Penny” (available online):
Six, but not all, Ivy League schools are included in the top 25, which I suppose is my point. Schools have particular qualities beyond their athletic conferences. Another list may have included all eight Ivy League schools, and still another, none. Quality of course does and should matter, but there are various ways in which to evaluate it. (Syracuse, btw, @Blue4940, would be accessible to you in terms of admissions.)
Realistically, your academic credentials are at the low end of the range for admits to super selective schools (including, but not limited to, the Ivy League schools). Unless you are related to someone who donated a building, endowed a faculty position, or something similar, or are a recruited athlete, then it may not be worth it to apply to schools of that level of selectivity.
just out of curiosity since you went to Harvard, Was your experience there okay, great, or amazing? It makes sense that the classes are significantly harder, and I expect that from any top school, but if I went to a pretty average school like VCU for pre-med, but then got accepted into John Hopkins would I struggle much more than other students?