<p>but this person got likely letters from harvard and yale! yale only sends 100 likely letters, and harvard even less than that. i am talking 1600 800x3 international scholar. you said 80-100, and surely if she gets into HYPSMCCwhatever else you want to add on and likely letters from most, she'd be in that 80-100?</p>
<p>ok i feel like you arent listening to what im saying to you so i'm just going to stop wasting my time. good night</p>
<p>Maybe Columbia felt she was SUCH a wonderful applicant that they <em>had</em> to take the risk, even at the expense of their yield?</p>
<p>Or maybe, despite the perfect scores, Columbia didn't feel like that the applicant was a shoe-in to HY?</p>
<p>Or, maybe in her essays or interviews, she expressed very clearly her interest in Columbia?</p>
<p>I never said the syndrome was a policy chiseled in stone. I'm sure it is applied flexibly to fit each situation.</p>
<p>You're just throwing anecdotal evidence at me and asking me to interpret each one... great tactic.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I never said that Columbia <em>never</em> want to go head to head with H. (if I did, that's not what I meant to say. Probably a mistake from typing so fast). Just that they didn't want to go head to head for the STRONGEST applicants.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Since you can't base that on statistics, it's an offensive and inflammatory thing to say, HH05. It implies that Columbia has an inferiority complex to Harvard, which doesn't stand to reason. Anecdotal evidence is the only way to discuss something subjective like this, but it is pretty demeaning to Columbia, and I'm not sure what you base that on.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm not so sure about P, but you can't really compare admit rates and yield rates between ED/EA schools... because ED policies help manipulate these numbers. ED schools know that they can't compete directly with some of the top schools, which is why they have it in the first place. ED allows them to accept less (which lowers the admit rate) and gives them an artifically high yield rate, both at the expense of the applicant's freedom to apply to other schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's ridiculous B-S. ED applicants choose to apply to a binding program because it's their first choice, not because they have better odds. Your reasoning is circular: the better odds are because the applicants have demonstrated clear preference of the school.</p>
<p>Columbia doesn't fill any higher percentage of its class early than does Harvard (using anticipated yield). They both admit enough students to fill about half the spots.</p>
<p>Most importantly, ED does not go head to head against EA, because no applicant to Columbia who is also considering Harvard, etc. is going to apply to an early binding program. ED just enables those students with really strong desire to have a leg up. It doesn't make the school look any more or less competitive.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That's ridiculous B-S. ED applicants choose to apply to a binding program because it's their first choice, not because they have better odds. Your reasoning is circular: the better odds are because the applicants have demonstrated clear preference of the school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>ED applicants choose to apply to a binding program because it will give them better odds to their top choice. The binding aspect of it only benefits the school in terms of yield and acceptance rates.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Columbia doesn't fill any higher percentage of its class early than does Harvard (using anticipated yield). They both admit enough students to fill about half the spots.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The difference, of course, is that HY use non-binding early policies. As I stated above ED helps the schools increase their yield rates. What relevance does this information have to this discussion anyway?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most importantly, ED does not go head to head against EA, because no applicant to Columbia who is also considering Harvard, etc. is going to apply to an early binding program. ED just enables those students with really strong desire to have a leg up. It doesn't make the school look any more or less competitive.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Did I say that it goes head to head against EA? I thought I said that's <em>exactly</em> why some schools use ED... because it limits the prospect of competition with other schools. They are competing less directly with other schools.</p>
<p>If a school doesn't have care about yield protecting, why should they care about how much interest the student shows anyway?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Since you can't base that on statistics, it's an offensive and inflammatory thing to say, HH05. It implies that Columbia has an inferiority complex to Harvard, which doesn't stand to reason. Anecdotal evidence is the only way to discuss something subjective like this, but it is pretty demeaning to Columbia, and I'm not sure what you base that on.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>"just cuz you have two friends who got waitlisted and there are two strong applicants on here who didn't get in doesn't imply any macro admissions strategy."</p>
<p>That was in response to the little quote above. Basically Justice says anecdotal evidence can't be used as evidence like that... but then he bombards me with his own? Hah.</p>
<p>It's not demeaning to Columbia at all. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Harvard is more selective and much more preferred among applicants. It just means that Columbia is aware of this fact and adjusts their admissions policies accordingly to preserve yield. Many schools do this (I'm sure Harvard even does it to an extent)... I don't see why people think claiming so is inflammatory.</p>
<p>You wanted only ivy acceptances, right? </p>
<p>Gpa/Weighted Rank/Unweighted Rank/Sat:
4.0/1/1/1560:
Accepted: Cornell
Rejected:Yale and Penn
Waitlisted: Columbia, Harvard</p>
<p>4.0/2/3/1470
Accepted: Dartmouth ED</p>
<p>4.0 4/6/1500
Accepted: Cornell ED</p>
<p>4.0/5/5/1420
Accepted: Cornell
Rejected: Dartmouth, Princeton</p>
<p>4.0/6/4/1450 (me)
Accepted: Cornell ED</p>
<p>4.0/7/7/1450
Accepted: UPenn ED</p>
<p>4.0/8/9/1400
Accepted: Penn, Cornell</p>
<p>4.0/9/8/1590
Accepted: Penn, Cornell
Waitlisted: Princeton </p>
<p>Some kid ranked probably in the 30s got into Yale, he composes his own music and is really talented at playing piano</p>
<p>Some other girl who might be in the top 50 had a 1280 and got into Cornell's hotel management school, with no special talent, hook or legacy</p>
<p>3.9/1550
Accepted: Columbia (CC) RD
Rejected: Penn (Wharton), Yale
Waitliste (and deferred EA): Harvard</p>
<p>
[quote]
Many schools do this (I'm sure Harvard even does it to an extent)... I don't see why people think claiming so is inflammatory.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think maybe we misunderstood each other, if the "Tufts syndrome" to which you're referring is also the sort of admissions strategizing that Harvard and all schools do. Yes, all of the top schools play off each other to some extent, predicting where each applicant will most want to attend. That's the determination of "fit" that they make. If Columbia strongly believes an applicant will be accepted and would choose to attend Harvard, they may not accept them. Agreed. But it won't be because the applicant is "too good" for Columbia. That's the rub! Columbia has a Scholars designation that they use for top applicants, perhaps in part as a way of competing against Harvard, etc. I don't think their determinations not to cross admit are based on feeling like they can't compete.</p>
<p>The idea that a school would look at a "perfect" applicant and decide to reject them because the applicant wouldn't want to go to their lowly school that's inflammatory. It's applied to Tufts as an insult to that school.</p>
<p>Here is a research that supports both HH05' theory and Justice's examples:</p>
<p>people at my school</p>
<p>1550, ranked 4/150, 4.0 gpa.... accepted yale EA, harvard, princeton RD... he's a URM</p>
<p>1340, ranked ~30/150, 3.8 gpa... accepted harvard RD... his grandmother is heavily connected to harvard and gives speeches there every year. she wrote his rec.</p>
<p>1450, ranked 13/150, 3.96gpa accepted princeton ED... recruited rower, asian</p>
<p>1530, ranked ~30/150, 3.85 gpa, deferred then accepted wharton (upenn)... participated in LBW wharton summer program... other than that nothing (thats me)</p>
<p>1440, ranked ~22/150, 3.93gpa, accepted brown ED... double legacy, dad interviews for brown.</p>
<p>1510, ranked 1/150, 4.0gpa, accepted mit and stanford RD. nothing special, just a brilliant student. </p>
<p>1600, ranked 5/150, 4.0gpa, rejected MIT rd... is asian and a chess genius, and plays piano well but spits all over you when he talks so i bet his interview was crap. </p>
<p>the president of my school's student council and all-around extracurricular prodigy got into princeton and yale RD with an 1190. his class rank was around 60/150 but he is highly respected by both faculty and students and got tremendous recs and counselor evaluations.</p>
<p>many others with ~1400s and 3.8/9s accepted into cornell/brown/yale/princeton/mit. our class rank is misleading because our school is unanimously recognized as the best high school in canada (upper canada college is the name). most students ranked in the top 20 - 30% here would easily rank top 2 - 3% at other schools.</p>
<p>it is unfair however, most kids at my school are loaded and have powerful connections in admissions offices at the ivies or through alumni networks. its sort of like the andover or phillips exeter of canada.</p>
<p>either way, about 25 - 35 kids will go to ivy league from my class of 150. others go to cambridge, oxford, london school of economics, amherst, swarthmore, and the rest to schools in canada such as mcgill and u of toronto.</p>
<p>HH05 - I decided not to stay on the waitlist. There is no point in staying on the waitlist, since I have no intention of going to Columbia. </p>
<p>The thing with Stanford though.. is a little different.. Stanford has traditionally hated my H.S. (Berkeley) and has accepted few people from my H.S. My college counselor told me that Stanford is amazingly harsh on students from Berkeley and in the past couple years, most of the admitted were legacies (not that many... 2-3 a year?). I have a feeling the Stanford-Berkeley rivalry hurts my chances with Stanford greatly.</p>
<p>That's unfortunate. I think it sucks that colleges have biases (whether they be positive or negative) in their admissions policies... especially about things that can't really be helped.</p>
<p>scagneas, who are you, if you don't mind... and yay UCC...</p>
<p>more importantly, who are you?</p>
<p>Son: Ranked 1 out of 193, 4.0 unweighted GPA; 1600,
Accepted EA to Harvard (withdrew other apps)</p>
<p>1540, 800/780/780, 2 out of 500, 4.0</p>
<p>Accepted: Brown, Columbia
Rejected: Harvard, Yale
Waitlisted: Princeton</p>
<p>1330, 32 ACT, 97 average. african american</p>
<p>Accepted: Yale, Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell
Rejected: Harvard
Waitlisted: UPENN
Attending: Stanford</p>
<p>Harvard broke my heart but I soon found out that Stanford was the place for me all along. What a relief!!</p>
<p>me:</p>
<p>1550/800/800/800/740/3.95uwgpa/4.6+ wgpa
Accepted: Princeton (tip was extensive connections there), Penn, Columbia, Cornell</p>
<p>others:
1600/800/800/800/800/790/4.0uwgpa/4.6+wgpa- going to Harvard accepted early, crazy math awards including USAMO and RSI
1600/dontknow his IIs/4.0uwgpa/4.6+wgpa, accepted early to Yale, surprisingly waitlisted at Stanford (all-east clarinet player)
1570/dontknowhisIIs/3.85uwgpa/dunno wgpa, but max weighted courseload- accepted wharton ED, absolutely ridiculous leadership, comm service ECs
1600/dontknowherIIs/3.9-4.0uwgpa/maxweightedcourseload- accepted into the Huntsman joint degree program ED at Penn
1600/idkhisIIs/4.0uwgpa/4.6+wgpa- accepted to Dartmouth, rejected HYP, is valedictorian, hardly any ECs</p>
<p>we have two other princetons idk their scores.
recruited track athlete going to brown
3 cornells (SAT's range from 1400s to 1500s)</p>
<p>KEEP IN MIND: Youll find just as many rejects with these SAT scores.</p>
<p>haha i can relate with finding the right place after having my heart broken. rejected by Stanford, and finding out that Princeton (2 miles from my home, when I ironically wanted to get as far away as i could) is the awesomest place ever.</p>
<p>Me: 1530/800/740/670/33/4.0UW/4.5W/Val.
Accepted: Dartmouth
Rejected: Harvard, Yale
Attending: Dartmouth</p>
<p>Class of '04 graduate: 1480/don't know/33/don't know/don't know/5th in class
Accepted: Harvard (int'l student)
Attending: U of Toronto (Harvard gave him no aid b/c he was int'l)</p>
<p>That's everyone from my school I know about that ever applied to an Ivy.</p>
<p>the quality of the applicant pool at Columbia is lower to begin with. therefore, exagerrated acceptance rate.</p>
<p>the quality of a school is not made by its acceptance rate but by the achievements of its alums.</p>