Foreign language requirements

I have been taking French since 6th grade. I have continuously gotten an A/A+ in French (Honors French II freshman year A, Honors French III sophomore year A+, Honors French IV junior year A+). Going into my senior year, I am enrolled in AP French, however, I hate French so much. It makes me so miserable. I hate everything about the class and the language.

That being said, I am applying to many Ivies and other top colleges this coming fall. I really do not want to take AP French. I want to drop it and take AP Human Geography - a class I am actually interested in. Regardless of whether or not I take AP French, I will still be taking 6 AP classes my senior year.

Do you think that dropping French and taking a class I actually like will ruin my chances at the top schools? I also have the option of taking Honors French V along with AP Human Geography (I would, therefore, have 6 AP classes and an honor class).

I can suffer through AP French if it will help my chances of attending an Ivy, like Harvard, but I REALLY HATE FRENCH.

Any advice?

You have completed up to level 4 French so you are fine if you do not take AP French.

My D2 is on the same boat. Finished Spanish 4 and not taking AP spanish in senior. That is all fine.

Take the AP you are interested in. You have enough FL for top schools. It’s going to be hard to maintain high grades in six AP classes, esepcially if you have labs. Do you really need six? As long as you have about 7 APs, you should be covered. More APs doesn’t mean a better application.

I am not sure this is good advice for Harvard. Harvard recommends “four years of a single foreign language” in high school. That would mean AP French. Other schools may be more flexible.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/preparing-college/choosing-courses

My understanding is that is not the # of years in HS, but the final level you reach.
Hopefully some one more knowledgeable about Harvard could chime in.

No it does not. It means completing level 4 of a foreign language. FWIW, in most HS’s, AP French (or Spanish, Latin, etc.) is an alternative for French IV, not French V.

Having said that, I’m not sure a top school would recognize the validity in taking APHG in place of AP French. They may not care one way or the other, but APHG is not exactly renowned for it’s exceptional course rigor.

But…if you go to a college that expects you to reach a certain fluency in a foreign language then you’ll have to take a French test when you get to college. In some cases, a good test score will help you place out of the college’s foreign language requirement. If you don’t take French senior year, you’ll probably be pretty rusty for that test. The only other way to pass out of a college’s foreign language requirement could be to get a 4 or a 5 on the AP test. You should check out the requirements for the colleges on your list.

In our S19’s case, he certainly has other classes he’d like to take but he will take French 4 H for junior year and AP French senior year. He’ll shoot for the 4 or 5 so that he doesn’t have to take more foreign language in college.

Also, I definitely think it looks good to take all five major subjects (math, science, social studies, English, foreign language) for all four years in the highest levels your high school offers if possible. In S19’s case, he would love to take Creative Writing or Philosophy or a Global Issues class instead of another year of French but I figure he can do that in college. And I’d rather pay college-prices for a class like these than another semester of French just so he can check off a college’s foreign language requirement.

Is this a fact, or is this CC folk wisdom? To me, the plain letter reads “four years of a foreign language” - i.e. take one year of FL for every year in high school. For OP, the FL available for him to take his last year is AP French. It seems to me if they wanted to say FL up to level four, they could have just said “FL up to level four” instead of “four years of a FL.” Seems like a better approach is to follow the plain letter (“four years”) rather than trying to rule-lawyer it in your favor and hope for the best.

For kids who are accelerated in math, is it legit to stop after Calc BC junior year, because they’ve taken math up to level four? I doubt it. It says four years of math, and it means it.

Of course, it’s legitimate to say forget Harvard, I want to be happy my senior year. It all depends on what you want.

In many school districts, students begin FL requirements in middle school. This is counted as part of high school requirements for FL, and colleges recognize that, including Harvard, @RelicAndType .

I’m interested in specific citations or even anecdotes.

Our high school will indeed show that S19 took the equivalent of French 1 in middle school on his transcript. Haven’t the foggiest idea if any given college would think taking French through French 4 and stopping after junior year counts as four years. Again, it would depend on the school and how competitive the applicants are. For the best students at our high school, our counselors even warn against doubling up on math or science to the detriment of leaving off a foreign language or social studies. The top schools want kids who do well across the board.

the OP didn’t say what kinds of colleges she has on her list. That’s also why I suggested she look at each school and find their FL requirements. It’s usually clear on the websites. Depending on her list, it may be just fine to skip AP French. I just didn’t want the OP to get stuck having to take French in college because she couldn’t score high enough on a placement test if her college gives one.

@RelicAndType , if you are specifically interested, by all means find some citations and share.

I can tell you that in our school district, and I assume others do this also, FL classes taken in middle school appear on the high school transcript as Spanish 1, or equivalent, along with the grade received in middle school. In our district, FL level 1 begins in 7th grade and continues through 8th grade. It counts as one year of FL. A student can then complete Levels 2-4 in high school, as well as AP FL. Furthermore, our school’s current Harvard student completed four years of Spanish in this way, so there’s an anecdote.

Actually, usually it is not that clear on web sites, since they often write “N years of foreign language” without any other explanation to account for students who started in middle or elementary school, or who started in a higher level due to being heritage speakers, or whose knowledge as a heritage speaker is more advanced than the available high school courses, or who are learning English as their second language after recent immigration, or other situations besides starting at level 1 in 9th grade and taking up to level N in high school.

The California public universities are the most detailed about what qualifies:
http://www.ucop.edu/agguide/a-g-requirements/e-language/index.html
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/csu-uc-a-g-comparison-matrix.pdf

If you are not sure, ask the college directly.

For our school district, many students took the level 1 in 8th grade and it is considered a HS level class. It even shows up on the HS transcript although it is not included in GPA calculation. So after taking Spanish 4 in junior year, my D has 4 years of HS Spanish even only 3 were taken in HS.

@ucbalumnus On each website, you have to look at the requirements for graduation, not the requirements to be admitted to the college.

Yes, colleges’ foreign language graduation requirements (if any) are typically clearly stated, unlike their foreign language admission requirements or recommendations. Of course, the requirements are not necessarily the same for a given college.

A fact, IME.

Specific citations you will be unlikely to find. However, very few HS’s offer FL past level four, so if any kids start their FL sequence in MS, is it your opinion that they will be out of the running for HYPMS if they reach level four in HS with less than 4 years? Anyway, I will give you an anecdote:

A couple of years ago, when I was going through the process, I asked several colleges that have a 4 year recommendation, including Harvard, if my preparation at the time was sufficient (2 years HS Spanish through level 3) + 0 years HS Italian + 5 on the AP Italian exam as a non-native speaker) and they all said it was fine. In the end, I did end up taking a 3rd year of Spanish. Still, I was very happy with my admissions results.

Going off topic, since the OP did not ask the question, but the short answer is “It depends.” If a college offers a suggested HS curriculum, one can interpret it as a strong suggestion, but it is not a roadmap, nor is it a checklist. When there are valid reasons for deviating (i.e. not “my teacher can’t teach” or “I don’t like the subject”), it’s not going to be a deal breaker, IMO.

@skieurope Thank you for your very full and courteous answer. Though I think the issue of schools that run out of language classes at level four is a somewhat separate issue from OP’s question. I guess my inclination is just to err on the side of caution and recommend AP lang, but I’ll leave it at that.

But, like you said, the APHG specifically may not be the best choice, or at least not the choice best calculated to impress adcoms.

See “Ask the experts” at Peterson’s. Just browse down a little bit or search for “foreign language”. This is not something just around CC forum. I have also asked several admission officers at different schools several years ago too.

https://www.petersons.com/college-search/ask-experts-college-admission.aspx#/sweeps-modal