I Feel That The College Admissions Process Is A Joke.

Parents Forum
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<p>Just looking back, it all looks rather silly. There are younger kids I know that are starting to ask me questions about college and their aspirations and goals. All I can really do is just shake my head at that thought. Perhaps it's my subconscious reaction to not getting into the schools of my dream, or it might be just a cynical view of life. We hold these institutions on pedestals and pursue their acceptances. It just feels rather silly to me. Kids trying to get a strategic upper hand into getting in, and others who get too emotionally attached to the whole progress. <- That, by the way, is a not a complete sentence; it's a fragment.</p>

<p>It might be my devil's advocate side kicking in again, but I feel that everything is just imposed by society onto us. AP is just a brand, titles are just words, honors are meaningless, degrees are just paper. Education should be a liberation from ignorance, but we all seem to be ignorant. It's just the blind leading the blind. Why do kids need to go to college? Why do kids need a degree? It just seems fruitless. But the answer comes down to: society demand it.</p>

<p>Looking back at what I learned in high school... I know nothing. We are all filled with this delusion that we learn so much in school, but that's just feeding the lie. It's just all smoke and mirrors. I felt like I learned so much in school, in the end, it totaled to be nothing. It just is all a regurgitation of information. This post itself is just a different permutation of information already expressed before; there is nothing new in this post. It's just a collection of ideas that has been neatly packed, just like what I learned in high school. We just know names and words of things and we know a bunch of rules that somehow relate; so, do we really know anything at all? </p>

<p>This concludes my pseudo intellectual post about my view on life. Perhaps, it's just another existential crisis moment.</p>

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<p>David,
Though this may sound trite and cliche, it really is true that people reap what they sow or get out what they put into whatever they do. If you just want to memorize & spit back what you were taught, there are certainly a lot of folks who do that. If you want to go beyond that and use what you are taught to ponder bigger questions and explore further in HS, college, & life, you can do that as well. My D amazed her counselors because she took so many different courses in divergent subjects. She could see connections and feels they have all increased her knowledge base and allow her to see the world in different ways that she didn’t before she took the courses.</p>

<p>It is true that for many, higher paying jobs, having a certificate and/or college degree is a basic requirement. It is hoped that having the certificate and/or degree shows that you have certain minimal skills including good communication in written and verbal formats, can perform critical thinking, can work in teams and alone, and can do calculations as appropriate. For higher positions, more education is often required.</p>

<p>We all have choices as to what we do with the opportunities we have–rush through them putting forth minimal effort or really trying to get as much out of what is available.</p>

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<p>My guys don’t regurgitate information. They use what they learn to understand their world and step off into thoughts and theories of their own. Any tests are just mere blips compared to their actual understanding of anything - and yes - everything is connected.</p>

<p>We have some really neat conversations at our house (or in our car, or camping, or anywhere).</p>

<p>I hope you can find similar connections at some point. ;)</p>

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<p>Education is a lifetime process. You’ve barely begun, and all you have right now are the basic foundations that will carry you for the rest of your life.</p>

<p>Foundations aren’t fun or glamorous. Nobody looks at your house and says, “Wow! Great foundation!”. Well inspectors and people who know construction appreciate foundations, but the rest of us just look at the bling of the finishes, and the granite countertops and the sub zero fridge. But if the foundation isn’t sound, dry, and well built, the rest of the house will have problems.</p>

<p>Most of the knowledge that I use every day: philosophies that guide me as I raise my children, the economics of personal finance, medical basics of menopause, what to do when the laptop freezes up, making international travel plans, techniques of negotiations to purchase the best deal on the best car for my needs, recognizing and dealing with mental health issues, guiding elderly parents through the final years, how to build a patio, recognizing carpenter ants… You get what I’m saying here? …Most of the knowledge I need to know every day has been self taught.</p>

<p>I could fill a book with a list of all the things I didn’t learn in high school or college, but that I needed to know at one time or another. </p>

<p>And honestly, much of what I’ve needed to know for every job I’ve ever had I learned outside of school. College didn’t teach me how to handle a young child whose mother had stage four cancer and died the year she was in my class. </p>

<p>All the formal education I had did, however, teach me to read, to think, to question, to conduct research to find answers, to recognize when I need help, and to allow me to continue to learn.</p>

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<p>This is the time when you go from learning how to be a student to being a scholar. And it is what the above poster said, you get back what YOU put into it.</p>

<p>And yes you have figured out that the schools are just that, schools. You don’t “fall in love” with a school. You should be “falling in love” with learning, and your ability to learn.</p>

<p>The school you attend is just the vehicle that allows you to do so.</p>

<p>So take advantage of every opportunity you are being given to learn and grow. Challenge yourself and push past your comfort zone. </p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>I’m implying that we humans are merely creatures that regurgitate information. We have these preconceived notions that we hold onto; that we are smart somehow and that we can somehow understand the world. We really don’t. The collection knowledge throughout human history is just a mere approximation of what really is. Communication is just a regurgitation of ideas through a set of defined words that merely approximate the real truth. </p>

<p>In the big picture of things, we humans know nothing about our world. That’s what bothers me. We think we know so much, but it pales in comparison to what is actually there.</p>

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<p>Let me guess, did you just read this?
[thinking fast & slow](<a href=“Thinking, Fast and Slow — By Daniel Kahneman — Book Review - The New York Times”>Thinking, Fast and Slow — By Daniel Kahneman — Book Review - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>No I have not. I was just thinking about what I’ll do for the rest of my life. I then realized what I will be working on decades for will be insignificant compared to the big picture…</p>

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<p>Remember this, David.</p>

<p>It’s easy to be a cynic.</p>

<p>Life’s going to serve up plenty of opportunities to become one, but don’t you let it happen!</p>

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<p>I wonder about some of these things as well, but probably in a less sweeping manner. I think it’s hard to get around the need for that degree, that piece of paper, and I have no problem with that. </p>

<p>But - the one that sticks in my head is “why four years?” These days, is the (general) four year requirement for BA and BS degrees always fitting? Could it be pared down (or in some cases maybe even expanded) depending on the discipline, maybe even by school? Obviously they need to work within some sort of parameters, but still… just my thought bubble.</p>

<p>Sorry, sort of a highjack.</p>

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<p>So rather than sitting there being cynical and defeatist, expand your mind, expand your knowledge. You haven’t even started school, which will open your mind to new experiences. </p>

<p>You are talking to the old and jaded here. We have experieced love, loss, betrayal, failure. Most of us did not start out in life wanting to be tax accountants, patent attorneys, project managers. When we were 18 we were going to be on television, live in Europe, run companies. Are we bitter? Most of us will say no. We still have real lives that fulfill us. My job may not save the world, but I help people. My life is not glamorous, but I laugh daily and am still in love with my husband after 20 years. Go enjoy life.</p>

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<p>Mark Twain,“don’t let schooling interfere with your education.”</p>

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<p>re. your “existential crisis moment”, i still have one of these every other month (and i’m 38, lol)!! </p>

<p>it’s good to know that ultimately we really don’t know anything…keeps us humble and striving for knowledge. if we–as humans–knew so much, then why do we still not have cures for cancer(s)? why do we still eat meat and processed foods when we know that they’re toxic? why are there still children who go to bed hungry in our country? why do we give pregnant mothers unnecessary epidurals and c-sections? why don’t we have a mature response to poverty and racial inequality? </p>

<p>so keep questioning. i don’t see it as cynical, i see it as sane.</p>

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<p>David,
I think your inquisition is very genuine, and anyone thinking for themselves will likely have similar questions at some stage. I applaud your spirit of exploration. But there are no easy answers to those questions. Many people have similar realization as you do; this is partly why philosophical nihilism (extreme skepticism) has spread so widely. </p>

<p>Personally, I do think attending school is very useful. You may doubt its value at this moment, but it has obviously enabled you to write coherently and ask important questions. We all have to live on a human scale, which is day-to-day, material, and interpersonal. Education helps you position yourself in a society. Use your questions to guide your learning, and don’t bury your skepticism.</p>

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<p>“In the big picture of things, we humans know nothing about our world. That’s what bothers me. We think we know so much, but it pales in comparison to what is actually there.”</p>

<p>I wasn’t focused enough then - or now - to have what I learned in college be super-applicable to my life. David, you sound young enough that this might be the time to do some exploring - of all kinds. Its never easy, but better now while you are relatively young (I’m just assuming) and have fewer strings attached than you will in the future. </p>

<p>I don’t regret most of what I learned in school. Being in that environment was a luxury I’ll never have again, and I’m glad I experienced it (though wish I’d worked harder and gone elsewhere, but that’s ancient history). In fact the information that’s the most ‘useless’ is often what I look back on with most fondness - think music appreciation, Arthurian Literature, etc. And if it wasn’t there, it would be just that much more brain space available to be taken up with 80’s song lyrics and the like.</p>

<p>I think it’s healthy to question certain aspects of our lives, and even better if you act on it in a way that might bring you some satisfaction.</p>

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<p>I told my kids that most likely in their lives they will never again have the ability to ponder, question, reject and explore like they will during their undergraduate years. There will be people who appear to have a laser focus down the path of life but there are many who do stop to ponder. Good for you. The example of a foundation is a very apt one. Ironically and on a lighter note and fair warning, the person during my undergrad years that was the most recalcitrant, cynical, probing and a whole lot of other adverbs is a college admissions dean. Go figure. LOL.</p>

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<p>Hello, David,</p>

<p>I hope that you did actually learn something in calculus and Physics C, which I know you are taking (from another thread). If these courses have left you with many questions unanswered, that is all to the good! </p>

<p>I have the impression that you are intending to major in science or engineering in college. Looking at the vista from a long way down the road from where you are, I can agree with you that we really know very little about how the world works–and in this statement, I am just limiting myself to “the world” as studied in science and mathematics.</p>

<p>It turns out to be rather difficult to discover something that is genuinely new–depending on your field of inquiry, and how important you feel that the “new” thing has to be. The good news is that you almost certainly have many years ahead of you, to learn and to discover things that are now unknown.</p>

<p>I have discovered a thing or two in the course of my career, and I can tell you that the discoveries made me absolutely euphoric–even though quite a few people (probably the overwhelming majority, in fact) would essentially say, “Ho hum,” if I tried to describe the results to them. </p>

<p>I noticed on another thread that you have a really heavy and tilted schedule planned for the fall: just from offhand recollection, it was Physics III, Chemistry, Calc III (?), Data Systems & Structures, and maybe an EE course, too. Have you talked with an advisor about this schedule? Is this normal, where you are going? All of these courses are workable in themselves, but normally a student would take at most 3 of this type at a time. I think you might need to lighten your science/math/engineering schedule, so that you have time to really think about and question what you are learning in those classes. You might also think about substituting something in literature, history of a period that has really interested you, archaeology, philosophy, a foreign language, music, art, or something else that will let you think in a totally different way.</p>

<p>Incidentally, your intellectual orientation seems to me to point more to science than to engineering. Have you thought about that?</p>

<p>Finally, a piece of advice: Richard Feynman, to whom I often allude, used to have a notebook, in which he wrote about things he did not understand, and tried to work them out. I don’t know about the notebook, but I think Albert Einstein took a similar approach, of thinking about phenomena for himself. Fermi’s notebooks are famous. The good news is that it’s not necessary to be in their league to profit a lot from keeping your own notebook.</p>

<p>I have the feeling that a lot of instruction in physics is somewhat rushed, to the point that students are constantly being given answers to questions that they haven’t yet asked. Also, the material that is presented may cover things that are not really what you want to know about the subject. It is not so easy afterwards to go back and re-discover the naive approach to the subject, where you ask what you really want to know, rather than what can be answered in the current framework of the subject.</p>

<p>For that reason, it is a great idea to write down your own questions when you first approach a subject. This will keep you on a new and open intellectual track. Everything gets more interesting up ahead.</p>

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<p>

No one person can learn everything that is known today, so everyone is ignorant about many, many subjects. Through a lifetime of learning, I have never ceased to be amazed at the breadth of study undertaken by the human species. We study everything. We are curious about everything. And we are fortunate to live in a time where at least some of humanity has the leisure to study and explore the world, the universe, and everything in it.</p>

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<p>Davidthefat meet Friedrich Nietzsche. Welcome to the world of existential nihilism.</p>

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<p>That’s what frustrates me; there are so many things to learn, but so little time. That’s why I planned my schedule to be so stacked; I want to use every available moment in college to learn. I have yet to talk to an adviser yet. Some days, I do, contemplate pursuing a “pure” science than engineering. That was the reason why I applied to a liberal arts school, but ultimately chose an engineering school. Feynman is an idol of mine; I have read his books and really have influenced me. </p>

<p>Sometimes I do really ask myself if I REALLY want to be an engineer, and not a scientist. I really do not know the answer. One research field I am very interested in is robotics; which explains my classes and major choice. I really do look forward to studying abroad, but financially, I not capable. Some days, I feel like holing myself up in a library and just consume information; other days, I feel like sitting and just “think” all day. That’s why I thought that a career as a professor would be the best for me; then I realized, within academia, there are still a lot of politics and the lack of intellectual freedom. I’ve read that what you do research on is usually what the grant holder tells you to research. My mom has told me that I have the temperament to work at a government research institution. But I find the idea that my employers are pushing their personal agenda through my work to be rather disturbing. </p>

<p>Again, as I previously mentioned before, I can usually be seen reading textbooks. Time is always an issue for me, so I read while I eat and usually opt out of socializing as much. I feel the need to “make up for lost time” as I have slacked off most of my high school career. I felt that there was a social stigma for being a “nerd”, so I tried to compensate by playing football up till my Junior year; by that time, my academic habits were in a wreck. I wanted to be in an environment where there are kids with similar mentalities about life. But the whole college admissions process has made me a bit more cynical that a lot of kids go to college for the degree and finding those kids with genuine curiosity will be rare. </p>

<p>Here’s a quote from my college personal statement:</p>

<p>"My career goal is to be a professor… The reason why I choose to become a professor is simple: to understand and speak the language of God. The pleasure of working towards gaining knowledge and applying that knowledge trumps material possessions…We should teach students to embrace knowledge in its purest form and to always question.</p>

<p>I am clearly aware of the fact that the human brain can’t fully comprehend the inner workings of whole universe, but success is a journey, not a destination. I live for those “eureka” moments that induce thought, those moments that just open the mind to a world unknown. Those small accomplishments along the great journey of human enlightenment are worth living for. I only have about eighty years to live. I can spend those eighty years trying to save up money and possessions, but they are all worthless at the end, so why even bother? I would much rather spend my days changing and inspiring others. It is my duty to educate and inspire the newer generations and pass on the torch of human endeavors. "</p>

<p>Some have gone as far as saying that I should major in philosophy or education.</p>