<p>ok… that video was clearly disturbing. Very much so.</p>
<p>My understanding is that hazing is illegal in a national way. However, that didn’t stop a bunch of high school hockey players in MN from running naked in the snow causing extreme frostbite in some newbie varsity players. </p>
<p>Each greek house has a culture. It depends on the school I am sure. But on the surface of this video, I think it looks ridiculously stupid. My husband went all through rush, pledge etc and then on the final day he decided he didn’t want to live by a bunch of arbitrary rules that determined who he could befriend. Tulane.</p>
<p>H out of town, but when he returns I think I will ask him more questions because, you’re right Pizzagirl that does sound really weird. Maybe he just chickened out when it came to hellnight, but knowing him as I do, there had to be something more there. </p>
<p>Son’s school has no greek system, but I think it merely translates to other student groups. I think I read somewhere when he was just researching schools that the a cappella group was found to be in violation of the no hazing rules. Admittedly, I thought that was really odd for a singing group!</p>
<p>Draw a clear distinction between sorority life and fraternity life. The difference is in the adult involvement. Sororities generally have quite serious alumni oversight and quality expectations. Fraternities in general, do not. What alumni involvement there is on the male side often does not constitute the same level of mature supervision that sororities demand.</p>
<p>I have a preference for fraternities where they don’t all live together - at least not until senior year. It is easier to keep a mix of friends that way.</p>
<p>My daughter tells me almost everything that goes on with her, and there is nothing that goes on which she couldn’t tell me. She has a lot of outside friends and interests. She has her dance friends. She will be graduating with 2 majors, and many of her friends are engineering or pre med.</p>
<p>momof3D, I am sorry that your friend’s son had such a bad experience at the fraternity at CU-Boulder. However, as the mother of a son who is in a fraternity at CU-Boulder right now, I can assure you that not all of them are like that.</p>
<p>My sophomore son has a 3.6 gpa while living in the house and is studying very hard to get into dental school. The fraternity brothers that I’ve met seem to be nice young men. I’ve been in the fraternity house several times and while it’s not the Ritz-Carlton by any means, it is generally clean, if a bit worn by having 45 young men occupying it 24-7.</p>
<p>Like others have said, it all depends on the university AND the particular fraternity or sorority as to its character and behavior.</p>
Goodness. That takes all the fun out of being a parent, doesn’t it? If we can’t impose our biases and prejudices (based on decades old history at a different institution) on our own children, well…for Goodness Sakes, what possible reason could we have had for wanting kids in the first place? ;)</p>
<p>LOL. My husband says they never did anything overly risky in his frat (30 years ago!). From what I can tell, a lot of them are pretty benign. But there are the exceptions - I think sometimes it depends on who’s in charge. If you get an obnoxious group of out of control upperclassmen calling the shots, it can get pretty hairy. I’ve heard some horror stories. About 7-8 years ago, a friend’s D was at a college where a frat made the pledges go out and shoot some ducks on a pond (it was some kind of inside joke). In that state, it is illegal to shoot ducks sitting on a pond in a state park. All of the pledges involved were expelled from the college and prosecuted.</p>
<p>What I’ve told my son is having someone telling you that you ‘have’ to do it doesn’t override good judgment. If you are being asked to do something illegal or questionable, you need to have the courage to walk away. No fraternity is worth getting arrested, being kicked out of school or endangering your own or someone else’s life.</p>
<p>Some schools have students wait until sophomore fall to pledge. I think that is an excellent idea. It gives the students a whole year to figure out college life and learn of activities and of reputations. </p>
<p>I did sorority life and it was no big deal. Yes there were a couple big partiers in the group – but most of us weren’t. You could get dropped if you didn’t keep your grades up. I think you could end up with a sports team that is just as wild as any frat –</p>
<p>Yep. H’s experience, fraternity at a top 20 school. No one was “forced” to drink. Hazing activities were lighthearted bonding activities, just as they were with my sorority. I went to school at the height of the preppy craze and I had to stand on a table in a fraternity house and recite passages from the Preppy Handbook. Along the lines of cartera’s “I’m a little teapot.” It was all lighthearted, and silly, and if someone REALLY didn’t want to, they didn’t have to. You simply can’t comment on Greek life as a whole unless you take it down to a particular school, and even then, to a chapter. Animal House is a hysterically funny movie, but it’s not a documentary.</p>
<p>@Curm: Ha What I should have said was that I would “try” not to roll my eyes or make snide comments. Not quite sure how quiet I can keep my inner Jersey Girl if an amusing (to me) moment presents itself. If I see a mom & PNM wearing matching Lilly Pulitzer, well, that might just do me in (no offense to anyone here on CC who does wear matching outfits with their D.)</p>
<p>“If I see a mom & PNM wearing matching Lilly Pulitzer, well, that might just do me in”
Thanks for the mental picture! Loved it.</p>
<p>DH’s frat had plenty of partiers back in the day but they also had guys who didn’t drink at all. Many of the boys I know who pledged did so because of the frat involvement in student government on campus.</p>
<p>And from what I’ve seen the university is so much more strict and involved with Greek events than they used to be and there are hefty fines involved for breaking rules. The only hazing DD has seen in 4 years has been when the baseball team came around knocking on doors to make their freshmen sing “I’m a little teapot” complete with hand motions…seems to be a popular choice of song. ;)</p>
<p>The college H and I attended didn’t have Greek life, so it took a lot for me to actually encourage my skeptical D to keep an open mind and take a look at sororities this year. Turns out she had conflicts with the rush schedule and couldn’t participate. She figured she’d try next year, but then called to complain that every common area was filled with “OMG, preppy girls, CHANTING!” so I think her mind is now firmly closed! Fortunately, Greek life is a minor aspect of her college, with no on-campus Greek housing. </p>
<p>My issue with these groups is that the whole rush system is all about being exclusionary, deciding who’s good enough to be part of the select few. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think someone could be officially rejected from a social group. Too much judgment and elitism for a bunch of young people.</p>
[quote]
Is there a single fraternity that does not “ask” its underage pledges to drink alcohol?
[quote]
</p>
<p>No one is forced but if everyone else is doing it and if you wish to asked to pledge … You get the idea.</p>
<p>My cousin’s son just graduated from Vanderbilt and was his fraternity’s social director and if you think no alcohol is involved at those fraternities, then I have some piece of land that I’d like to sell you.</p>
<p>BTW,both my DH and my S were in fraternities in college.</p>
<p>“No one is forced but if everyone else is doing it and if you wish to asked to pledge … You get the idea.”
This same logic could be applied to the dorms and other student organizations on campus. </p>
<p>There is drinking in the dorms (yes, even in substance free housing) and there is drinking/drugging among athletes and there is drinking among the student newspaper staff and there is alcohol at most apartment parties held by college students. If your child is going to be led by the actions of others, they don’t have to join a frat for that to happen.</p>
If we can’t impose our biases and prejudices (based on decades old history at a different institution) on our own children, well…for Goodness Sakes, what possible reason could we have had for wanting kids in the first place? ;)</p>
What I should have said was that I would “try” not to roll my eyes or make snide comments. Not quite sure how quiet I can keep my inner Jersey Girl if an amusing (to me) moment presents itself. If I see a mom & PNM wearing matching Lilly Pulitzer, well, that might just do me in (no offense to anyone here on CC who does wear matching outfits with their D.)</p>