Frats and Sororities - Influence on Campus

Parents Forum
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<p>Some fraternities serve deserving purposes; more sororities do the same. Next to that, you have a huge number of out of control organizations that promote activities ranging from the mildly indecent to the outright criminal. Fraternities have been directly responsible for several deaths and indirectly responsible for a number of deaths that would make you rethimk the death toll in Iraq. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, there are no good solutions. Schools that have prohibited frat houses only see them migrate to a location just off campus where there is no possible control. As long as nostalgic alumni will remain willing to support the life style they "think" they still understand, fraternities will live. As long as students and their parents are willing to overlook the great dangers of being led by kids who are just a few months or years older, fraternities will live. </p>

<p>In the meantime, we'll keep collecting deaths and near-misses. Until some day, we''' reach the conclusions that colleges and universities do not NEED those organization in the least, and would be MUCH better were they find a way to eradicate from in and outside every campus. </p>

<p>This is a case whern throwing the baby with bathwater makes sense ... but it will never happen since we are not about to run out of morons and idiots, including many who no longer have the excuse of youthful stupidity.</p>

<p>Waiting for Lucifer's rebuttal!</p>

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<p>I would not be so quick to discount schools simply because they have Greek life. As others in this thread have said, perceptions of Greek life (on-campus and off-campus) can change very rapidly. Pretty much every school will have some sort of cliques - be they in the form of fraternities/sororities, "eating clubs," sports teams, student groups, or just regular old dormitories. It is simply the way people work.</p>

<p>To throw a bit of my own perspective on this, I'm a Greek at MIT, which has (for a private institution) a rather high percentage of fraternity participation, with somewhere between 40% and 50% right now - including freshmen, who can join fraternities but not live in them until sophomore year. In spite of that, my social circles extend far beyond my house and my brothers; I count both Greeks and non-Greeks as close friends. And while I'm sure many Greeks would like to claim that Greek life dominates social life here, I doubt that claim.</p>

<p>Basically, ilsa - please keep in mind that every college is different. While numbers and statistics can be useful, most students are only ever going to experience a small cross-section of their college's overall social atmosphere, which may or may not include Greek life. Fundamentally, once you send your child out the door and onto campus, it becomes practically impossible to predict (let alone control) what will happen to them socially.</p>

<p>It's easy to find a school with a low percentage of Greek men, because that can be analyzed statistically. But in my mind, what's really important is finding a school with a range of social opportunities that suit your child's interests and needs - and while that is not so easy to quantify, it can often be fairly readily estimated by visiting the school, talking to the students, and (most especially) spending an overnight there.</p>

<p>Ilsa, good luck to you in your family's college search. If you (or anyone else) would like to engage in continued discussion of MIT's Greek life, feel free to PM me.</p>

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Fraternities have been directly responsible for several deaths and indirectly responsible for a number of deaths that would make you rethink the death toll in Iraq.

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</p>

<p>Could I have a source, please? I'm sorry, but without statistics, this just sounds like scare tactics.</p>

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<p>There have been plenty of accounts and statistics posted on College Confidential. There are many sources available through a simple Google search. If truth is important to you, you should not hesitate to spend a few moments clicking. Here's a 3 seconds search: </p>

<p>Fraternities</a> held responsible for deaths - Google Search</p>

<p>To go beyond sterile numbers and statistics, here's a good start for a real life account; a story that is not getting any easier to accept despite the years passing by. </p>

<p>The</a> Gordie Foundation - Home</p>

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<p>
[quote]
This is a case whern throwing the baby with bathwater makes sense ... but it will never happen since we are not about to run out of morons and idiots, including many who no longer have the excuse of youthful stupidity.</p>

<p>Waiting for Lucifer's rebuttal!

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</p>

<p>Ad hominem attacks (on both those in Greek organizations and those who don't echo your viewpoint) don't become you.</p>

66

<p>As you may guess, I am rather new to CC (especially to the Parents' Forum - I tend to prefer the MIT forums), so I have, alas, not seen most of these accounts and statistics. The best I've been able to find was this</a> thread, which gives the absolutely staggering number of 1,400 alcohol-related college deaths per year. But that study, unfortunately, didn't specify anything about Greeks vs. non-Greeks, so it is not totally relevant to the current discussion.</p>

<p>(By the way, while you are absolutely correct about the abundance of information available via Google, there's a fine difference between doing a Google search and finding "the truth." Also, if you are making any sort of statistical claim, I really do feel that it is your responsibility to provide corroboration and sources - not the reader's.)</p>

<p>Anyway, I think we can both agree that the number of alcohol-related deaths, especially of college students, is "too high." I disagree rather vehemently, however, that fraternities (and, by association, their members) are the systematic, irredeemable demons you are making them out to be. As others have said on this very thread, Greek life can very vastly not only across colleges but even across one campus.</p>

<p>Additionally, thank you for the link to the Gordie Foundation. The word "tragic" is used too often and too casually these days, but I can think of no other word to describe Gordie's story. </p>

<p>Finally, for what it's worth, I would like to point out that many fraternities (on both the national and local levels) are keenly aware of these issues. Learning about risk management and hazing were integral parts of my own fraternity's new member education program; in particular, we heard Scott</a> Kreguer's story, which still cuts deep.</p>

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<p>In my experience kids who drink a lot and do drugs will do them whether or not they are in a frat. Kids who do not will not whether or not they are in a frat. There are frats where some kids will drink a lot and party a lot. However, you cannot determine if there was no frat if these boys wouldn't find eachother (or similar people) and partake in the same activities on their own.</p>

<p>If it's not frats, it's clubs at my school that promote drinking. At my school (and schools some of my friends attend) the Model UN team has a ton of drinking activities. One of my friends put it "our drinking team has a MUN problem." MUN is probably seen by you parents as a constructive activity for kids to do in college, and it is. However, even this club (along with many others) partakes in binge drinking at my school and others.</p>

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<p>For a general overview:</p>

<p>Higher</a> Education Center: Infofacts Resources: Fraternity and Sorority Members and Alcohol and Other Drug</p>

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<p>The Higher Education Center IS a government agency (the U.S. Department of Education), and most of the data cited were published and/or paid for by government agencies.</p>

<p>Higher</a> Education Center for Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse and Violence Prevention | Welcome to the Higher Education Center for Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse and Violence Prevention</p>

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<p><a href="By%20the%20way,%20while%20you%20are%20absolutely%20correct%20about%20the%20abundance%20of%20information%20available%20via%20Google,%20there's%20a%20fine%20difference%20between%20doing%20a%20Google%20search%20and%20finding%20%22the%20truth.%22%20Also,%20if%20you%20are%20making%20any%20sort%20of%20statistical%20claim,%20I%20really%20do%20feel%20that%20it%20is%20your%20responsibility%20to%20provide%20corroboration%20and%20sources%20-%20not%20the%20reader's.">quote</a>

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<p>My suggestion to let google guide you was to let you decide what data points are important to you versus the results of one's subjective and selective process. In this case, the truth is the one we believe fits our opinions the best. </p>

<p>For the record, I did not make any kind of statistical claim. I did not write about the percentages of college students who die in hazing accidents or in car accidents involving alcohol. I simply stated that fraternities have been directly responsible for several deaths and indirectly for many more. I believe that this statement would be hard to dismiss since it had no time limit. </p>

<p>Fwiw, we have have had long discussions about this on CC and debated statistics ad nauseam. At the end, opponents simply retreat and dismiss the "other side's" numbers as invalid. </p>

<p>Thank you for your kind comments regarding Gordie.</p>

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<p>I'm still looking for the numbers that indicate fraternities and sororities have less drinking and drug use, fewer instances of violence and assault, less sexual assault (and hence fewer sexual assaulters), and fewer rapes (and hence fewer rapists and rape victims). I'd love the opportunity to dispute the data. More than that, in my work I'd love to promote fraternities and sororities generally speaking as the true low-substance-use alternative. Even more than that, I'd like to be able to recommend schools with high frat/sorority participation to parents who are concerned about alcohol/drug use on campus. </p>

<p>I'd also enjoy aggregated data that indicated that Wechsler's 8 characteristics of high bingeing schools didn't hold (I've only looked at the data from roughly 200 schools over the past seven years or so, and think I have only found one outlyer.) It would really make my day!</p>

72

<p>Thank heavens my son joined the Mother Theresa Fraternity. Their philanthrophy is to go into poor orphanages in Calcutta and feed the children. They never drink, do drugs, or rape like those other loser fraternities.</p>

<p>Cheers to the MTF, Mu Theta Fi!!</p>

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<p>I'm a member of Nu Badda Mi. ;)</p>

74

<p>I think there is some truth to the claims that frat and sorority members are more financially successful and more involved with their school after graduation. </p>

<p>Why</a> Join :: Acacia Fraternity - Iowa State Chapter</p>

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<p>
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I'm a member of Nu Badda Mi.

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</p>

<p>Swarthmore just added a third greek-letter organization when the "science fiction" type organization changed its name from the Swarthmore Warders of Imaginative Literature *to *Psi Phi.</p>

<p>So they now have a *Phi Psi *and a *Psi Phi *on campus, although *Psi Phi *is much larger.</p>

76

<p>
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I think there is some truth to the claims that frat and sorority members are more financially successful and more involved with their school after graduation.

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</p>

<p>There's a suprise, huh? A survey showing that the rich white kids are still richer and whiter after graduation from college. Who would have ever guessed?</p>

77

<p>
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I simply stated that fraternities have been directly responsible for several deaths and indirectly for many more. I believe that this statement would be hard to dismiss since it had no time limit.

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<p>As I recall, you compared the number of deaths to the number of soldiers who had died in the Iraq War. That's several orders of magnitude greater than "several deaths," which is part of why I was so insistent on statistics. :)</p>

<p>In the long run, xiggi, I'm not attempting to call your numbers (or anyone else's numbers) into question. Nor am I ignoring mini's comments, sarcastic though they may be. I am simply calling into question your claim that all fraternities, everywhere, are evil and ought to be done away with.</p>

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<p>
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There's a suprise, huh? A survey showing that the rich white kids are still richer and whiter after graduation from college. Who would have ever guessed?

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</p>

<p>Isn't the point of college is that most people, no matter the color of their skin, are supposed to graduate and become more successful ("richer" being just one definition of more successful)? Should I go tell the Indians, Asians, and African-Americans in my fraternity that they aren't allowed to be there? How about the brothers who are on full financial aid?</p>

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<p>post #51, i totally agree. i doubt anyone would reject putting cornell on their college list just because we have the 2nd largest greek system in the country.</p>

<p>when all of you send your kids onto college...LOOSEN THE TIES! they are on their own for the first time...let them learn responsibility and how to be independent. i feel that it is important for the students to decide what is best for them. does drinking have serious consequences? yes. because your kid doesnt drink in high school, does that mean he/she wont in college? maybe. they need to learn how to RESPONSIBLY control themselves in a social situation...i feel like totally banning them from the opportunity to learn how to behave socially in college will ultimately lead to worse situations in the future. stop being so close minded to frats/sororities. they arent bad at all. and like i said before (and what apparently "annoys" parents on college tours), DRINKING IS EVERYWHERE, ON EVERY SINGLE CAMPUS, FROM GINORMOUS STATE U TO THE IVIES!!! want to make sure your kid doesnt drink in college? have them sign up for an online university (university of phoenix, anyone? ITT tech?) and take classes at home where you can continue to hover over their every move. they arent 3 years old anymore...you can let go of their hand and drop the kid leash.</p>

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<p>Yeah like many others in this thread, I used to look down on fraternities, but eventually joined one myself. They're not as evil as you'd think.</p>