Freshman Registering for Upper Level Classes

Parents Forum
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<p>calmom, I didn't see your post earlier. I must say that you're over analyzing the situation and you're quite a bit off.</p>

<p>The planning we did (Robert mostly, me commenting) merely gave us confidence that it was possible to get through in the time frame he expected. This is a twist we didn't count on and it could be significant if it's not just some automatic reaction or it keeps him out classes more than just this instance.</p>

<p>Robert will take care of it for himself as he did when he talked his profs into waiving requirements on senior level classes a couple of years ago at his the other college. If talking alone can do it.</p>

<p>If it can't, he, we, have bigger problems.</p>

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<p>ok, I skimmed the thread, and didn't see this...</p>

<p>but can the student reclassify his social status? At my school, registration is done by social class as well, not credit hours. They changed this policy a year or two ago, because the vast majority of students who come in with enough credits to graduate early, end up taking the full 4 years anyway. At my school you can fill out forms and such to do this.</p>

<p>From that last post though, sounds like it will work out.</p>

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<p>Sounds like S needs some outside activities. There is so much there at CMU that our S doesn't have time to do it all. </p>

<p>If S has free time, have him try for a job/teacher aide/undergrad research assist. There are plenty of positions available and with the right position, he can learn whatever he wants. He could be putting his advanced skills to his enjoyment rather graduating at a certain time. </p>

<p>There are clubs that may interest him (Robotics) which entails skills that he may not normally learn in the classroom. Ours is doing The Fringe Buggy (fringe.org) and a position in robotics doing whatever they do. His programming is self taught. He is not a robotics major but a ME and HCI. </p>

<p>This time of year could be a good time to inquire about RA positions. Some may be paid, others are for credit and experience. The credit and experience positions may be the better choice. These professsors have considerable influence at time of job hunting or grad school selection. There are tradeoffs, weigh them carefully. </p>

<p>From our S experience at CMU, going it alone is extremely difficult. Group interaction is emphasised inorder to complete assignments.</p>

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<p>S has a close friend at CMU who is a math genius. He was taking upper level math as freshman. He is graduating in the normal 4 year but with a masters in math and a degree in philosophy. There will be no bachelors in math. He's going to ph'd at another school. </p>

<p>Your S has choosen two very popular majors that may have enrollment quotas. </p>

<p>If someone accepted to HYP-and have the opportunity, would they want to graduate in 3 years or 4 years?</p>

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<p>You are all missing the issue--that there isn't room for the kid in the classes he wants to take! We have similar frustrations with one of our kids (not at CMU but at another bigtime private research 1 university), and when you are paying $45,000 a year at a big name private university somehow you tend to think your child should be able to register (at least most of the time) for the courses he or she wants/needs to take. Waitlist just doesn't quite make it. I don't understand why you all think that the student should have to play games to get into classes.</p>

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<p>hoping to help== I don't thonk we're missing the point- presumably the OP posted looking for advice, and we're all offering suggestions based on our own experiences at other universities. You can disregard if you wish-- but the laws of time and space apply even when you're paying $45K a year.</p>

<p>If the collge reserves spots in popular classes for soon-to-be-graduates, it's tough to make the case that you should be the exception, just because it works for you and your particular program, and your desired minor, and your need to graduate early. What if you were the parent of a second semester senior who got bumped in a class in his major to allow the OP's kid (who is after all, a first year student, extra- credit not-withstanding). Who gets to be more upset-- the parent who learns that a four year degree in fact will take four years at CMU to complete, or the parent of the kid who have successfully completed 4 years but has to stick around an extra semester 'cause he got bumped from a required class so the OP could save 45K?</p>

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<p>Who gets to be more upset-- the parent who learns that a four year degree in fact will take four years at CMU to complete, or the parent of the kid who have successfully completed 4 years but has to stick around an extra semester 'cause he got bumped from a required class so the OP could save 45K?</p>

<p>This reminds me of a slightly similar situation at my D school. The school just like many schools I suppose, has some very popular electives which are too crowded too allow everyone a seat. I myself remember that in high school, I never had a chance to register for an art class that I wanted, having to fill that requirement with drama instead, (and no I can't say that I enjoyed it as much anyway)</p>

<p>Now this school is public and has limited funds and space- but we were pleasantly suprised when my 10 th gd daughter was given a photography class, we had always heard they were very difficult to get into.
Then comes open house, and the parents of mostly seniors are a little upset at finding out that their kid has been waiting for 4 years to take this class, but now there are 10th graders in it, who make it so crowded that not all can use the darkroom.
To add insult to injury, the school decided to make it a priority to offer 6 classes to 9th & 10th graders, but 11th and 12th graders, who are trying to fill their schedule with college prep ( or AP) classes, are having to take a TA or free period.</p>

<p>At some colleges, how many credit hours, taken at that college, determines when you register. That makes sense, each class you take, puts you farther ahead in line- I don't have a problem with that & I wouldn't have had a problem if they had decided to allow more seniors their chosen elective- it actually seems more fair</p>

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<p>I'm still confused about the issue of class rank and the credit transfer.</p>

<p>The student is a freshman, i.e., came to CMU right after high school. At the same time, the student had a number of AP credits and college classes. Were these actually credited? </p>

<p>For instance, my S took 9 classes at his own college, but none of these count. At another university, the same college classes might have given him credit; this, however, did not factor into his decision about which college to attend. He has 5 APs on which he received scores of 5, and these are the courses for which he is receiving credit, making him eligible for Advanced Standing (He, however, will stay all four years, like the majority of AS-eligible students at his school). </p>

<p>All the credits for which my S is entitled to are written on his college record, along with the college requirements he has fulfilled and those he still has to fulfill. The college classes he took will enable him to place into more advanced classes, even though he is not receiving credit for them. But this is something he needs to discuss with his advisor, the Director of Undergraduate Studies and the course instructor. Despite the fact that he is not receiving credit for the classes he took, the fact that he took them at the college he is attending makes such discussions easier, since everybody knows the contents of the classes and the criteria for grading. But, as I said, this is totally separate from the issue of credit.</p>

<p>Another issue is residency. No matter how many credit a student comes in with, in order to graduate with a degree from a particular school, a student has to spend a minimum of several years at that college. I think, the minimum is two, but some colleges stipulate 3.</p>

<p>To sum up, I'm not entirely clear from Strick's post whether his son, the freshman, is entitled to count the classes he took before coming to CMU toward his degree or even to placed into more advanced classes. Strick, can you clarify?</p>

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<p>Officially he's a freshman, a school policy based on that first year thing, but when he was admitted they accepted enough hours (credits at CMU) to qualify him as a junior. By the end of his first semester there he has enough to be a senior. He won't graduate until 2008 given his major requirements, but he's pretty much completed his required courses and has most of his electives.</p>

<p>it sounds like class load wise he will graduate after 2+ more years?
that sounds like it would make him a sophomore?</p>

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<p>Without rereading the thread I think as far as "seniority" for getting into desired classes, which is the important issue here, he's a freshman this year, a soph next and a senior in '07-'08, not good for Strick son.</p>

<p>hopingtohelp, you are right, lack of room is indeed the issue. BUT, CMU policy aside, I'd think there might be a difference in expectation depending on the size of this prospective class. In other words, if I'm the kid or the parent, I'd be more understanding if this class size limit is 12. One more person is fairly significant.</p>

<p>But if this class is lets say a lecture of 200, then I'm going to be a little p***ed because what's one more? In that case I'd be more hopeful CMU might accommodate.</p>

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<p>My S now has an answer that seems to clarify everything for him. Please forgive me if I can't respond to everything [posted because I have to catch a flight. I appreciate your responses, though.</p>

<p>It turns out that CMU, at least for the popular majors (as some have suggested here), does prioritize entrance into classes. The fact that my S was on the top of the waitlist was overridden by an unwritten policy that give priority on the waitlist to a combination of major and class standing. I.e., in this business class, the first opennng would go to the top senior business major regardless of how many other students were on the list ahead of him or her. </p>

<p>That suggests two things. First, it seems reasonable from the point of view of the school and most parents. If your student were a senior needing this class to graduate, it would be hard to justify putting someone from another major or a lower classmen in a seat ahead of him. </p>

<p>Second, it's clear that opennings for some popular classes are in relative short supply. I don't doubt that the school benefits from a situation that may force some students take a little longer to graduate, but it's probably not a motivation for them. YMMV</p>

<p>We knew that going to CMU was a bit of a risk for Robert. He wanted and could get into a top CS school. Unfortunately after school visits, he realized that he hated the alternatives, and at least had a positive experience with CMU, particularly the fauculty and the campus size. </p>

<p>We haven't discussed it yet, but there are still options. It will be interesting to see what he's thought of before he calls to ask for advice again.</p>

<p>Marite, the units that CMU allowed him to transfer are on his transcript and count toward graduation. They just don't count toward class standing which is set by a strict policy. The credits transfered were all essentially core classes or electives for this program. CMU wouldn't allow him to transfer classes in his major, though they acknowledged them and let him enroll in higher level classes. </p>

<p>That's the answer to your question, Emeraldkity. While he's got a lot of credit, he doesn't have the classes he needs in his major or minor to graduate. It's class rotation and realistic class combinations within a semester that draw it out the full 3 years, not the class load.</p>

<p>itstoomuch, he's an officer in his club and is going to pledge one of the frats this semester. Even though the three CS classes he's taking aren't going to be that particularly challenging for him, that's probably enough. </p>

<p>If it helps, this is one of those kids who is beginning to wonder if a degree is really going to matter and why is he spending all this money and time getting one? He's already spent two years on a college campus and he knows that's not all there is to life. It's a little hard to explain to an 18 year old that 30 years from now he might have a different perspective on it all. :D</p>

<p>Thanks again for the responses, folks. I have a couple of ideas what he might do and I'm sure he will too. Frankly, I can give all the advice I want, but he's reached the age where no one can really tell him what to do. I'm rather proud of that.</p>

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<p>Strick--let us know how this plays out. Tell your S to get his degree. In my experience and my H's, people in the workplace place a value on having a college degree--it doesn't even matter what the degree is in--it is just a good thing to have. But then again, if he never intends to work for other people, if he starts his own business (thinking Bill Gates here), that's a whole 'nother story. Come to think of it, my brother-in-law, who dropped out of college seems to be doing fine (he's the main computer geek at some company)--works for some, I guess.</p>

<p>My S's experience at getting into overenrolled classes has been so far so good. Usually at Chicago (and I know another kid following the same strategy at UCLA)--it seems to work if you just start going to class, talk to the professor and wait for other kids to drop out. S was a little peeved at us recently, though, when he couldn't registar for a popular class because we were late paying some charges. But he went anyway, and the prof decided to let everyone in, even though there aren't enough chairs. I guess I'm fine with that. I'm going to just trust that this prof (very popular, great lecturer according to my S) knows what he is doing. I wonder if enough people will drop so that eventually there will be enough seats.</p>

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<p>good luck with the fraternity. A nice thing about them: most have their own cooks, you get a break from the notoriously bad CMU food ;)<br>
I still haven't figured out why CMU can't do something about that.</p>

<p>I recall S marveling how their cook could make a big mac just like McDonald's. Such talent...</p>

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<p>
[quote]
**he couldn't registar for a popular class because we were late paying some charges

[/quote]
**</p>

<p>OK I have to comment. I am curious to hear reaction from others. What I question in this discussion is that this kid could be the senior who is guaranteed a spot in the "limited class". I know that paying for college is hard and I am not selecting out an honest poster on CC but rather wondering about all of this. So, if you have a registration status and are locked out of it through Bursar actions they give it all back w/o question later? I must say that this discussion has unearthed lots of "stuff" that new college parents/students will want to make note of and investigate at their own schools. I am amazed at all that I have learned here.</p>

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<p>Well, the rule seems to be that you can't register unless all the charges are paid up (I think in our case we had $700 hanging over, can't remember why, though I think it may have had to do with questioning paying the medical insurance required). Yeah, I guess that could be bad for seniors, we'll have to make sure we have our act together and all fees paid on time. In my S's case (sophomore) it is an elective that he wanted--microeconomics--although, who knows, taking this class may send him in a new direction, it wouldn't be inconceivable that he might decide to major in economics.</p>

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<p>Strick11 any news on your son and his getting standing or into classes he needs???</p>

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<p>He didn't get into the class. </p>

<p>As it turns out, this slightly confusing situation still wasn't what we thought it was. We thought he was put on the waiting list because there weren't any open seats. There were actually 20 empty seats, but the Business School has that little bit of tension with the School of Computer Science and apparently they don't always play nice with each other. The professor refused to discuss things with students on the wait list himself and referred them to the advisor who told my S he wasn't going to get in.</p>

<p>My S has spoken to several of the deans at his school and has been advised to stay out of it until they get things straightened out. We'll see how things go next semester, it's too late for this one.</p>

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<p>Strick,</p>

<p>I am not sure how all of the classes fit together or how many your son would be missing but one other thought is to take a required course or over the summers at your local state school. Just check to ensure that the credits and requirements transfer. With engineering often the basic science classes do.</p>

<p>In the end it appears that you are experiencing more of an institutional issue than anything else. 20 empty seats and he can't get in? What is up with that? Good luck.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Eagle. Our concern was less this one class than our impression, explained in the first couple pages in the thread, that he was going to have a hard time getting into classes in his minor in general because of a peculiar personal circumstance and a set of polices which make sense individually but together work against him. </p>

<p>We looked into your suggestion when this came up, but, unfortunately, he can only transfer in one class in his minor and then only with prior permission. This was more of a systemic issue.</p>

<p>20 empty seats and he can't get in? Needless to say, while I believe my S should deal with issues like this himself, if it comes up again when he registers next semester, I'm probably going to get to know one or more deans on a personal basis.</p>

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<p>Strick:</p>

<p>I gave you a hard time early in thread, but now I'm solidly in your camp. To have politics among the various "schools" at a university keep your son out of classes is really a shame.</p>

<p>I guess the only good that can come from your story is that future applicants pay attention to this nonsense before they make their college selections. This is a serious downside to schools heavy in bureaucracy and turf-battles. Rigidly dividing the undergrad curriculum into separate fiefdoms or "schools" is probably a good indication of such a climate.</p>