The takeaway from this is that even the tippy top schools weed. Certainly Stanford’s Ochem class is full of the brainiest kids, yet class averages with those sort of ranges scream “we weed, too.”
Anyone want to bet that those with averages in the 64-78 range would likely be A/B students at a good but not tippy-top school?
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I get the idea of “communications skills” as a skill. Exactly what other types of “people skills” are we talking about?
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Obviously, one can excuse a doctor for not displaying “soft skills” when there’s a life-threatening acute situation to be dealt with, but during other times, a doc shouldn’t rub you like sand paper.
I remember when my sister had her first kidney transplant. The vascular surgeon was one of the best, and was fine when discussing things with her and us. However, when a crisis occurred, he literally had to push one of us out of the way to get to her…and that was TOTALLY ok.
If the class with an average score of 64 on the test was curved to a similar distribution as typical for Stanford (3.57 mean, 3.67 median), then the 64-78 range is probably in the A- range.
If the class with an average score of 64 on the test was curved to a similar distribution as typical for Stanford (3.57 mean, 3.67 median), then the 64-78 range is probably in the A- range.
The class average was 64 with a low of 38 and a high of 161(that kid is going places whoever he/she is).
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I guess with some high averages (161 and possibly some other 1XX averages), I didn’t think a 64 would be an A- in a class that typically weeds.
Getting back to the OP’s predicament. I was a Chemistry major at an ivy, and yes Organic Chemistry, my favorite class, usually separates the pre med from the med students. P-Chem or Physical Chemistry which entails Quantum Mechanics (also a favorite of mine), Kinetic Theory and Thermodynamics is usually the hardest courses for Chemistry majors.
That said, pre med students need to decide if they are in it for the long haul. And if they are, as stated earlier, they can retake Organic class in the summer. They can take the class in the summer, (no one has to know) and retake it at their college, or they can take it the summer for a grade.
It’s a good lesson. If you truly want something, you have to figure out how to get around obstacles.
Don’t medical school admission people frown on (a) repeating courses, (b) taking pre-med courses in the summer, and (c) taking pre-med courses at colleges other than one’s current primary college?
I am a pediatrician and a member of the faculty at a medical school. Several people have made excellent contributions to this discussion, in particular those who have had actual experience teaching organic chemistry. Some of the following will be repetition of points already made.
A basic knowledge of organic chemistry is important in medical training and practice. As several people have pointed out, memorization is not the key to understanding but rather it is the ability to think imaginatively and solve problems. A knowledge of organic chemistry is essential for understanding physiology at the cellular and molecular level. The ability to envision complicated molecular structures in three dimensions is important in understanding biochemistry.
I don't 'use' organic chemistry per se in pediatrics but I need a basic knowledge of it in order to understand the processes involved in normal development and physiology, nutrition, the operation of the immune system, and the appropriate action and use of medicines when needed.
As a pediatrician I would not advise a college freshman to take organic chemistry. It takes one or two years to adjust to the demands of university classes.
I don't see any problem with dropping the class now and taking it later or with re-taking it to make a better grade as long as you can offer a reasonable explanation should the subject come up in an admissions interview.
As far as 'weed-out' courses go, the most likely suspect is calculus, which is probably required only to show that students can solve difficult problems. Calculus plays no role at all in medical school or medical practice.
Most of the medical students I interact with are not in it for the money. Most of them are accumulating very large debt loads in order to go to medical school. Most feel a genuine calling. In fact, I have to exercise care and discretion when telling them about many of the realities physicians face these days: loss of autonomy, loss of respect within the community, the arrogance and ineptitude of third-party payers, and the burden of excessive and unnecessary nonclinical work requirements.
Medical school admissions committees are looking for intelligent, well-rounded, committed students with excellent interpersonal skills. Treat with suspicion anyone who says they know precisely the GPA and MCAT scores that are required.
I’d like to give emphasis to this point. Outside material such as the book mentioned a few times may be helpful, but there is going to be no substitute for putting in the time doing practice problems. One rule of thumb is that for a math or science class it can take up to 3 hours outside of class reading and reviewing for every hour inside class, which is in accord to what was written above.
Starting off in college the math and science classes the first two quarters may have been on material that had been covered at least partially in HS, but o-chem is likely completely new stuff.
For light summer reading I suggest the OP get her son the book “Making it Stick” which covers what is known about effective learning as well as tips for HS and college students on how to implement them. To give a pair of examples, quizzing yourself is more effective than re-reading and practicing some each day is better than cramming before a test.
@mikemac yes, as I stated office hours, tutoring, and studying is time-consuming but helpful. I suggested the books to practice problems yourself and review concepts. Math and science require practice. You cannot rely on memorization to get you by I completely agree.
@preppedparent
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That said, pre med students need to decide if they are in it for the long haul. And if they are, as stated earlier, they can retake Organic class in the summer. They can take the class in the summer, (no one has to know) and retake it at their college, or they can take it the summer for a grade.
It’s a good lesson. If you truly want something, you have to figure out how to get around obstacles.
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No one has to know? What are you talking about. The med schools that the student applied to would certainly know that a student took the class multiple times, including during the summer at some other college.
If a student wants to get around the obstacles of Ochem, then there are appropriate ways to doing that. There are some excellent online videos and books such as Organic Chemistry as a Second Language.
“Anyone want to bet that those with averages in the 64-78 range would likely be A/B students at a good but not tippy-top school” @mom2collegekids I agree with you that they are weeding out.
So with the other question are you saying that an average Stanford student would be A/B at State U?? Would not
OC be the same or similar in both places? So I would suspect he would get roughly the same grade regardless of the school due to the subject matter. OC is hard no matter where you take it right?
And if the applicant leaves them out, and the medical schools find out (through the student clearinghouse and transcripts) that the applicant omitted any colleges or courses, wouldn’t that be automatic rejection or rescission?
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If AMCAS determines it was an intentional omission the application is automatically withdrawn from all schools and the applicant is permanently banned from ever applying to medical school.
If a medical school discovers a student has failed to report coursework, an acceptance will get revoked–even after a student had graduated from med school. (And there was at least one case where that happened.)