<p>How common is it for 1st year music students to get to the middle of the first semester and get totally down on themselves & their talent/skill level? I know my D is coming from a different path musically to begin with, but I've just had a couple of really difficult conversations with her this week where I don't know what to say or not to say. I want to say something encouraging but nothing I say seems to help. Basically it seems she's looking around and seeing everyone else and saying she stinks in comparison, and "What am I doing here?" </p>
<p>I'm not sure how much to say about the specifics of her situation. It seems like she's getting positive feedback from her violin teacher. She had a very good placement audition for orchestra. But culturally, I think she would still be happier where she could do some fiddling and improvisation. So far she hasn't made any contacts with the jazz dept. I had suggested she get in touch with them to let them know of her interest in improvisation, and she had sent one email last spring, but she hasn't been back in touch since she arrived on campus- perhaps out of fear of inadequacy?</p>
<p>She's feeing very confused about what she really should be doing. Going through the first semester is so different from when my other D started college. D1 had a more typical first semester where there was little pressure to worry about committing to a major at that point. She could just get adjusted to the routines of college life and not worry about the big picture of what she's going to do for the rest of her life. I'm not really sure D2 needs to worry about the big picture just yet, but she is & that's causing a lot of stress. Does this sound at all familiar? Any ideas on how I can help?</p>
<p>If I recall, she's a "fiddler" as opposed to a "classical" violinist, now suffering the pains of a classical performance program? </p>
<p>How is she in comparison to the freshmen performance majors in talent and skill level (forget about comparison to upperclassman and grad students)?
She was obviously good enough to be in the program, and her orchestra seating audition did not put her in the back row, last chair? </p>
<p>Was she big fish in small pond in high school and other performing ensembles, or was she used to being more in the center of the bell curve?</p>
<p>I've got a few thoughts, but more background makes it a bit easier to offer some strategies.</p>
<p>Some general observations- performance major course outlines tend to be fairly structured and at some institutions, freshmen have little opportunity to engage in some of the exploratory ensembles and genres; they're just too busy getting some basic requirements out of the way. Time corrects this.</p>
<p>She may be very simply overcritical of herself. As I said in the post above, its her relation to the incoming pool, not the upperclassmen and grad students.</p>
<p>There is in all probability a broad spectrum of educational experiences with hs, yo, summer opportunities, private instruction among her classmates, resulting in different levels of expertise.</p>
<p>If she may have focused more on "fiddlin" than classical rep just before college, she may need to refocus.</p>
<p>But ask her if her peers can compare to her improvisationally? It might be enough to make her rethink her position.</p>
<p>Yup, she's the fiddler. I'm not sure exactly where she fits relative to all the freshmen. I know that one of the freshman girls is seated at about the middle of the 1st violin section. She is seated 6th out of 14 2nd violins, and a girl that she has been very friendly with is a couple of seats ahead of her. There is just one orchestra, so this is <em>the</em> large ensemble for all string players. She has almost no orchestral experience on violin, except when she was a relative beginner. Her main large ensemble experience was on trumpet, and she was definitely a big fish in a small but nice pond in that situation.</p>
<p>She's doing fairly well in her theory, aural skills & piano classes. Her theory grade is not as high as it could be but she's doing better than a lot of students with a teacher who's noted for being very tough. She's doing extremely well in aural skills.</p>
<p>"If she may have focused more on "fiddlin" than classical rep, she may need to refocus. But ask her if her peers can compare to her improvisationally?"</p>
<p>She definitely has more fiddle experience than probably 95% or more of the violins. I know that one of the freshman girls has fiddle and improvisation experience but I don't know how much. D is less experienced with improv, but still probably more experienced than the typical classical violinist. She, however, is looking at the jazz majors and being critical of herself because she's not at their level. I think that's why she feels intimidated about approaching the jazz faculty to ask how she could get some experience at the university.</p>
<p>It seems like she's coming from a slightly different background, experience of training and repetoire focus than her peers. She simply may not have the depth of orchestral background. But she was good enough to be admitted. They saw talent and potential for growth. Remind her of that.</p>
<p>That disparity in background will make a big difference in comparing the skills, techniques, approaches in playing. There are inherent style differences in fiddling and folk music that differ from classical approaches... positions, bow hold and technique, slurs to name a few. </p>
<p>From placement, it seems she's doing ok. Her studio teacher has given positive feedback, so it appears he is not drastically trying to change her playing style.</p>
<p>I already see growth in her. There are a number of things she already does well, and I think the faculty heard that at audition time last year. But I already hear a difference and that was after only 6 weeks. We visited for the first orchestra concert and brought her home for fall break. I can't tell you how much I've missed listening to her practice! I think it's hard for me to get used to supporting her from afar because I don't hear the daily practice & direct feedback from the teacher, so it's hard for me to make specific comments of encouragement.</p>
<p>The important point to stress to her is to compare apples to apples. Is she looking at the jazz major freshmen or the upperclassman?</p>
<p>A classical violinist is not a jazz violinist is not a folk fiddler at least in the sense of having the backgound, training and experience to excel in all three genres as a college freshman; those that can do all three equally well at that stage of training are rare talents. </p>
<p>The aural skills, theory, and piano that she's doing fine in will make her a better musician overall. </p>
<p>She's there to develop her skills, technique and talent. Her peers can be a great source of insights, help and encouragement. </p>
<p>I agree with violadad, she should ask faculty for feedback and perspective about her progress, teachability, etc. Being a music major is almost inevitably fraught with frustration, uncertainty, and panic, not to mention all the opportunities for plain old fear. Having to present weekly to ones teacher a physical skill which is never going to be perfect or totally mastered is hard on the emotional psyche. She needs develop her own guidelines and proofs of work and accomplishment. She could make a chart, document her schedule, work with her teacher to identify the goals of each assignment and ask for an assessment of her progress. She can find ways to quantify the process, if that will help. </p>
<p>Perhaps her musical soul is longing for the outlet she has found in jazz and improvization. OTOH, perhaps her teacher wants her to work more classically first. THat is one of the conversations she needs to have. Teachers want to help students find their niche and be successful. </p>
<p>From my experience, freshman aged students are not that far along in their confidence in presenting themselves, their opinions, their needs. They may be able to verbalize it to you, the parents, perhaps their friends, but they do not trust the process of dealing with other authority figures, and they are much too introverted and passive in the process. You might encourage her to write her teacher an e-mail expressing her concerns, and you can help her with that. </p>
<p>I also think it depends on her goals. It doesn't sound as if she wants to play in a classical group, either orchestra or chamber. If not, then say, "Sure others are better, but that's never been your goal." If she can feel it's choice, not talent, interest not ability, perhaps she will be comforted.</p>
<p>And she is closer to where she should be than my S who really just doesn't care where he's placed or who is better than he is. It's all okay with him. Obviously, he doesn't have the grit, determination, talent or mind set to be a professional. Oh well. He doesn't want to be.</p>
<p>He is one chair behind good friend; one chair ahead, so I guess it's all okay.</p>
<p>He had an agonized realization that his "muscle memory" on piano would never be really good enough to be very good. He had gotten 100's on all his NYSSMA piano pieces, but he noticed it just took so much longer than it should to master piano stuff. So it's the violin or nuttin.</p>
<p>He is doing very well in theory, which is encouraging because his concentration in his major composition.</p>
<p>There is always someone better was a mantra I instilled in my kids to get through all sorts of difficult areas of interest (D was an en pointe ballerina.)</p>
<p>Stress love. If she loves music enough, there is nowhere else she could be, and she will find her place (although it might not be the place she wants) if she keeps at it.</p>
<p>Few kids have the consistent success of violadad's son in anything.</p>
<p>Classical training provides the best possible foundation for informed jazz play. That said, I know lots of jazz musicians who adore playing jazz and don't like studying classical much at all, because it is more rigid, primarily, in approach. However, I think the jazz musicians without classical training stand out like a sore thumb.</p>
<p>I hope your daughter can connect up with the jazz department with her university. It sounds like that part of her musical enjoyment is lacking. Perhaps with that outlet in place, the classical components will be more enjoyable.</p>
<p>I agree with posters above who say she should contact faculty and students in jazz department. A single email last spring is far from the most effective way to communicate. She needs to go and meet in person as many faculty and students as possible.</p>
<p>D did the same her freshman year because she wanted to double on alto sax and got aligned with jazz faculty. That has opened many doors in that area and she's really having a great time now in her sophomore year. Now she's complaining that she has too many performance responsibilities between classical and jazz ensembles and groups, but that's a happy problem.</p>
<p>Granted, it's normal for woodwind players to play classical and jazz, but violin is a whole new dimension. I'm sure she can find someone in the jazz area who would embrace and nurture the artistic possibilities that a fiddle would provide them.</p>
<p>Had a couple thoughts this morning, but didn't have time to post. Now I'll see if I can remember them!</p>
<p>First, is it possible that you're hearing more negatives simply because you're the safe place to vent? If I went solely by what my D told me, I would spend a lot of time (more than I do already!) worrying. But when I see/hear comments she gives others, you would never know she had all these concerns and self-doubts. I've learned that she is much more apt to express her negative feelings to me - so what I hear is not balanced.</p>
<p>Second, she may be concerned about YOUR feelings that she is not "the best" - especially if she is used to being best. Sometimes our bright and/or talented kids get some self-worth from their achievements, and need to know it's okay to not be tops all the time. Here it is important to let her know that you think she's doing great. </p>
<p>[My S2 is currently taking professional auditions. He told me his biggest fear is not flunking the audition, but disappointing us. Eye-opening to me.]</p>
<p>Let her know that she is only a freshman, and that it is a good sign that kids who are older than her are seated ahead of her. Coming in best as a freshmen doesn't leave a lot of room for growth. It is also a good lesson to learn that being best at one thing doesn't automatically make you best at everything. </p>
<p>Sometimes some of my piano students are embarrassed or disappointed that they made a mistake or aren't progressing as fast as they think they should. I reassure them that it is okay to make mistakes, and important that I know more than them, or else they wouldn't need me! :) It sounds to me like your D has some gaps that are going to be filled in while at college. That's what college is for! Kids who know everything already don't need college!</p>
<p>I remember a conversation I had with my son after 1 month at the conservatory. He told me that everyone else was better than him, that he had no idea how he ever got accepted. I explained that he wouldn't have been accepted if they didn't think he could do it. He told me that they obviously made a mistake. I told him that most freshmen music students feel that way. He was sure he was the only one. </p>
<p>A month later he shared with me that all the other freshmen were feeling the same way he was. I think that part of the issue is that freshmen are afraid to admit to their peers that they feel like the are measuring up, but once they do, they find there are a lot of other who are feeling the same way. </p>
<p>Over the course of 4 years, my son often had doubts, frustrations, and times he thought about quitting. I think our role as parents is to be a sounding board more than a problem solver. Let your daughter vent and know that you will be there for her. I also think that music students need to know that if they do decide to give up the instrument, you will support their decision. When my son expressed to me that he knew he would disappoint me if he gave it up, I told him that if I was disappointed, it was MY problem. I told him I would support him what ever path he chose and that my feelings should not be part of the equation. And lastly, I told him that I trusted him to do what was best for himself. </p>
<p>So I think that what your daughter is going through is pretty normal for lots of music kids. She will find her way eventually.</p>
<p>This is <em>exactly</em> the kind of feedback I was looking for! From what I can tell, my daughter is likely doing just fine, and is at a school that is the right "level" for her: as someone else said, probably students are coming with with a variety of experiences in the high school years.</p>
<p>I'm guessing from what I can piece together she may be experiencing a combination of hearing from her peers the "horror stories" of the difficulties of being in music, listening to lots of students play who are further along the path than she- from senior recitals to casual jamming in the music building, and so forth. I think that can be intimidating to a freshman student. Maybe I need to remind her that while there is truth to the stories, that they sometimes get told in such a way that they become more legend than truth. </p>
<p>I'm glad to hear that it is common for freshman students to be too introverted and passive about approaching authority figures, aka faculty. I was trying to figure out whether this was a "deficiency" in my own D who is introverted anyway or whether it is partly a normal function of having to deal with so many new people and procedures without the buffer of a parent nearby. </p>
<p>I'll address a couple of other comments in another post.</p>
<p>"I hope your daughter can connect up with the jazz department with her university. It sounds like that part of her musical enjoyment is lacking. Perhaps with that outlet in place, the classical components will be more enjoyable." </p>
<p>Several of you expressed similar sentiments. It seems to me like she is working hard on her classical music and is actually enjoying it (she admits to choosing classical for her listening pleasure more often than before). Yet, in the process "her" music is getting neglected for whatever reason- probably several reasons.</p>
<p>Maybe I should suggest she have a chat with her violin teacher. Having met him, I feel confident he'll be open to chatting about getting involved with the jazz dept. and/or finding other fiddlers to jam with. In fact, perhaps he'll be willing to introduce her to the best person in the jazz faculty to talk with about her interest. I think if next semester isn't yet the time to do something formal, just talking about a couple of possible plans for future semesters may help with the sense of panic over not having the future all figured out. And if now isn't the time yet for formal study in improvisation, perhaps she can get connected to someone who will be willing to spend some time with her informally on the side.</p>
<p>Fiddlemom, my daughter is the vocalist who was having the "crisis in confidence" that Violadad linked to. I want to second the concept of the freshman fear of approaching authority figures as being the norm. My daughter's advisor is also the chair of the music department, and when my daughter had some concerns last year, she needed an extra push to talk with him. Her concern was that a) he was her advisor; and b) he was the chair of the music department. I thought that was the best possible set of circumstances, but she saw it as the ultimate worst case scenario! I reminded my daughter that these people wouldn't be teaching if they didn't want students to succeed but that "teacher" does not equal "mind-reader". Once she finally took the plunge and schedule an appointment with him (after my suggesting became nudging became insisting!), she discovered her fear was much ado about nothing; in fact, she now meets with him on an almost weekly basis for business related to her plans for an individualized BA and finds she actually misses meeting him if they can't get together. </p>
<p>And yes, us parents do tend to hear all the fears and angst, but rarely get the phone calls when they're well-pleased or giddy with delight! My daughter's own crisis seems to have passed, but I now know that there will inevitably be another one...it's just the nature of the performer-beast.</p>
<p>"I also think it depends on her goals. It doesn't sound as if she wants to play in a classical group, either orchestra or chamber. If not, then say, "Sure others are better, but that's never been your goal." If she can feel it's choice, not talent, interest not ability, perhaps she will be comforted."</p>
<p>I think this is one place where she's having a definite crisis of confidence. She came into the program knowing- and the faculty knowing- that orchestral performance is not her goal. But 95-98% of the students seem to "know" that classical or straight jazz performance or teaching music in a school setting is their goal. She is one of the maybe 5%? that know coming in that their niche in music will be somewhere else but don't know yet what that somewhere looks like. Once again, it feels like she doesn't quite fit in any one neat category and that might be a little disorienting.</p>
<p>Well, they may think they know where they're going to end up, but her feeling is actually closer to the truth!</p>
<p>I guess I have to say what everyone else did: love and support. A lot of freshpeople are thrown by the challenges of frosh year, whether it's grades, discovering they hate the major they'd be waiting their entire life to do. It settles out.</p>
<p>Just being accepted into a conservatory is an honor so I'm sure her playing has much to recommend it.</p>
<p>"I reminded my daughter that these people wouldn't be teaching if they didn't want students to succeed but that "teacher" does not equal "mind-reader". Once she finally took the plunge and schedule an appointment with him (after my suggesting became nudging became insisting!), she discovered her fear was much ado about nothing;"</p>
<p>I am rapidly approaching the point of "insisting", after having moved from "suggesting" at the beginning of the semester, to strong "nudging". I have told D that no one will ever know of her interests if she doesn't speak up. I think once she makes the first contacts it will be fine. Maybe for some students (possibly most?) making the first contact must be a lot like standing on the high dive for the first time and looking at the water: it is a <em>very</em> long way down!</p>