<p>I second CountingDown's advice about the math co-requisite. If at all possible, your son should take any math co-requisite before the physics, and not simultaneously. (That was what I had in mind, when I mentioned seeking advice about the timing of the repeats.)</p>
<p>I'll add my 2 cents--Engineering is HARD! And, while I am not making excuses for your son, Engineering is HARD!!! Currently our son is a Soph engineering student at ND and while it is not GA Tech, I can tell you that it is my impression be it GA Tech or any other engineering school, the first year is basically a weed-out year. If he is serious about engineering, he will regroup and refocus and forge ahead. He has to examine where he stands and what can be done to improve. From our experience, son's Intro to Eng class in the fall sem of his freshman year started out with 400+ students (each in different sections, of course). Three weeks into the course many had dropped out or were going to drop out of engineering. By second semester, the intro to eng class was down to about 150+. So that by the end of his freshman year, there were maybe 125 or so left in the freshman engineering class (give or take). Yes, the Calc is extremely difficult (again weed out courses as most are taught from engineering perspective as is physics and chem). As another poster mentioned, once he begins to start taking classes in his true major(aero, civil, mech, etc), I think it will make a huge difference. Engineering is such a rigid, structured program with not much wiggle room in terms of courseload and variety of classes (unlike liberal arts). In fact, most of son's classes have all began at either 8:30 or 9:30 am vs his liberal arts major friends having classes that can be scheduled at 11 am. His lab classes have been killers as well. Try to have him truly examine whether he wants to continue in engineering. And, as previous posters have also mentioned, attend ALL study sessions, study with a group, and most importantly meet with professors when those low test grades come in. It does make a difference. Unfortunately, engineers don't have much of a party life on a college campus and because of their workload/study hours, most of their friends tend to be engineers, which I suppose, offers some sort of support system. Hang in there and listen to your student-you both can hopefully come to some good solutions/conclusions about engineering!</p>
<p>I have told him I would like a plan of action on what he is going to do. </p>
<p>-- I think it would be great for HIM to come up with a plan of action, with his academic advisor. I don't see why YOU should have a plan of action.</p>
<p>It is obvious he doen't know how to study for college (or at least Georgia Tech) finals. </p>
<p>-- Perhaps. But I don't see why it is obvious.</p>
<p>Should I insist on seeing all grades during the semester? </p>
<p>-- Did you earn them? They are HIS grades, not yours.</p>
<p>The course requirements? </p>
<p>-- I assume he knows what they are, and can discuss them with his teachers and academic advisor.</p>
<p>Or do I just set expectations </p>
<ul>
<li>Whose expectations?</li>
</ul>
<p>and inform him of the consequences of not following them (coming home and attending a less prestigious/hard school).</p>
<p>-- He probably already knows that. And, if he can't work out, that's not a bad consequence, but a good one. It is more likely, however, that if there is a significant difficulty, it is his choice of major rather than the school. But it can't hurt to inform him that he does have other options that might work better for him. </p>
<p>I am sure he is embarrased. He can't fully join his frat now (wonder if the frat was part of the problem).</p>
<p>-- You could ask him, if you can do it in a non-judgmental way.</p>
<p>His girlfriend gets great grades and this lack of success will not endure him to her parents either.</p>
<p>-- It took me a year to settle into my #1 LAC, and I think my highest grade was a B-minus. I lacked the polish, and some of the academic skills, of my peers. By the end of junior year, I was Phi Beta Kappa.</p>
<p>S had a difficult few semesters and what baffled us is why he did not drop a class BEFORE it deteriorated into an F or D. He has finally understands more about managing your gpa and studies better. But it took until his 2nd semester as a junior. </p>
<p>We too struggled with what approach to take as parents. Ultimately, we told him that if he lost his financial aid/scholarship (which has a minimum gpa that isn't all that high), we could not afford to make up the difference. I agree that it is way too difficult to try and manage his grades from a distance. And frankly, we didn't feel we could set a specific goal (ie you MUST have a 3.0), especially when some classes/and or profs are WAY harder than others. We basically had to sit tight and wait until the next semester grades were posted. He has never been very good about sharing information, particularly when the news isn't positive. He still has his financial aid/scholarship---but barely. Bottom line though is that we made clear what the goal was: lose your money and you come home. It was up to him to figure out how to make that happen.</p>
<p>Several others have posted various reasons for what may have gone wrong.
I'm local to the GA Tech area and I can confirm the stories you are hearing about calculus and the number of students who get F's and D's. Many bright kids we know had this happen at Tech. Some dropped/changed majors, some left the school, but most figured out a way to survive and ultimately thrive. Tech is tough.</p>
<p>That said, with my S (who doesn't go to Tech), the problems were similar to those mentioned already, lack of organizational skills, not taking class attendance seriously enough (he NEVER misses class now), and a seeming inability to assess where he stood in a class gradewise until it was too late.
Unwilling to join study groups, etc, etc.</p>
<p>He's getting better at it, ie, understanding the importance of dropping the terrible class...however, it's just in time for his senior year and probably will impact his ability to attain admittance to grad school.</p>
<p>The lessons learned will be valuable for maturing and succeeding. And hopefully, if your S cares about staying at Tech, he will find a way to do what he needs. Please keep us posted and best of luck to you.</p>
<p>About the grades--they are HIS grades, but in our house, paying the FULL tuition price, we as parents also see the grades. Our student is on what I would call a "Parent Scholarship"! And while we have not set minimum gpa for maintaining that merit scholarship from his parents, we do expect to see his grades. We have kept very open lines of communication with respect to grades; we celebrate the tiniest successes and encourage the failures. When he has his own job and is paying his own way, then it does not become our business. But, we hope we can still have the celebrations, etc. with good job performance.</p>
<p>Fraternities take up a LOT of time. A fraternity is the equivalent of another three hour course. And I'm not talking about the parties, I'm talking about the meetings, the community service, the intramurals, the weekend retreats, the weekend formals, the weekend leadership summits, responsibilities of holding office... </p>
<p>How many classes did he take per semester? If someone is considering a fraternity, I would take the "three hour" thing into account when preparing a schedule.</p>
<p>And don't get me started on the pledgeship semester of fraternity life. Whatever they say, it's a lot more time-involvement than they tell you. Fraternities do hold nightly mandatory study halls for pledges, but that is offset by all the other responsibilities involved. Pledges are expected to be at the house every night, at dinner every night, meeting attendance, learn all the history, lore, songs, interview all the upperclassmen, etc. Whereas a brother can get away with skipping the weekend Habitat project, the house cleanup, or doing DD, the pledge cannot. Lots of kids go off to school, don't realize how much of a time commitment fraternity life is going to be, and take a full courseload (15-18 hours), which is a big mistake during pledge semester. A disaster in the making. Estimate fraternity life as an additional class every semester, if the brother is heavily involved (participating in all activities, holding office, etc.)</p>
<p>Hi there...I've been in your son's shoes. One of the worst feelings in the world. I should preface this by saying that I am a regular here on CC, posting under a different name b/c I don't want my usual name associated with this post.</p>
<p>I was a A/B student in high school. Great grades, balanced extra curriculars--4 sports, band, FFA, student council, you name it and I probably did it. Go to a 4-year public of similar standing to GaTech. </p>
<p>Freshman year was okay. Low B/High C, with a D in one class. Did alright with time management, but something wasn't clicking. This past fall, sophomore year, I bottomed out. A D-, D, 2 C-'s, and a dropped class. I couldn't balance my job and school anymore, and I had absolutely no interest in my classes, but I didn't want to tell anyone. I was put on Academic Warning, one step above Academic Probation. (AT my school, AW is receiving a GPA between 1.0 and 1.99. Probation is either two consecutive semesters of AW or one semester of a 0.99 or lower GPA.)</p>
<p>My dad was furious. We had a "talk" for over an hour. More him yelling and me sitting there, already feeling bad w/o his talking. Any student on AW here has to meet with their advisor, so I did that and we made some study plans, got me in touch with a campus tutor, and went over my grades and how to get better overall this spring. I did eventually change majors, and am looking forward to fall when I'll be in classes that I'm actually interested in. Interest in a class helps me with attendance--this was a problem. I'm on my 3rd major, btw. I came out of this semester with C-, B-, 2 B's, and a B+. </p>
<p>It sucks not knowing what's going wrong. Talking with an academic advisor definitely helps though. Yelling, punishing, etc., will only make your kid feel worse than I imagine he already is. </p>
<p>One thing that has definitely helped is putting everything in a planner. It sounds borderline insane, but I write down every assignment, when I have to be at work (even though it's the same shift every week), when an outside event is going on, and I try to stick to the calendar. I remade my graduation plan, and lightened up my regular-year loads to 12-14 credits/semester. 12 if minimum full time here. I'll take 2-3 classes every summer, and hopefully it works out for the best.</p>
<p>Being at the bottom of the pile when you used to be at the top is a bad feeling. Hopefully your son can get through this and start off strong sophomore year.</p>
<p>One of my kids finished his first semester with very, very disappointing grades. I saw pictures on his Facebook that indicated he was partying. He had tried to pursue a science major even though math/science was never his strength. We spent an unhappy Christmas break discussing what had gone wrong. The kid refused to admit that partying was part of the problem, and blamed the science/math classes. </p>
<p>I told the kid that staying at his school was NOT an option if he lost his scholarship due to poor grades, but he had choices. He could transfer to an easier school but transferring would be more possible if grades were better. With rock bottom grades, his transferring options were limited. Another option would be to take some classes at Community College, to bring up his GPA and show that he was capable of doing college work. </p>
<p>Kid went back to school determined to get his act together. Changing majors made a huge difference, since the classes in the new major were much more appealing and interesting to him. The fear of being forced to leave a school (and telling his friends what happened) was big motivation. Semester #2 was much, much better - enough so that the final GPA for the year preserved his scholarship by a whisker. While studying a lot harder, he did some transfer applications. </p>
<p>With his improved GPA, this kid did elect to transfer to a school that had a stronger department in the new major. He transferred with his head high, knowing he could have stayed in School #1. The transfer was his choice, not a forced option because he had lost his scholarship. On the positive side, he left his GPA and those awful first semester grades at School #1 behind, and was able to start a new GPA at School #2.</p>
<p>The hardest part of that year was admitting what went wrong. Was it partying, tough classes in an area where he didn't "click," the frat, the GF, sleeping through classes, skipping classes, not doing the reading, not understanding the material, etc.? Sometimes brilliant kids just don't have good study habits, since they've been able to get good grades in high school just by reading the material on the bus on the way to school. Another factor may be the preparation for college the kid got in high school. Some high schools just don't give students the preparation that other schools do. One of my kids was telling me that it's amazing to him that many students in his Calculus class were struggling with a particular problem but he had done this problem in 8th grade in our school district. Even in his honors dorm, with really smart kids with good SATS, much of the material was new to them. When grading on a curve, it doesn't take too many math geniuses or kids who had that material in a high school class to skew the curve and hurt the students who come in a little less prepared.</p>
<p>I've been in your shoes, and it's heartbreaking. However, I can tell you that there absolutely can be a happy ending. My kid with the awful first semester has made dean's list ever since he figured out the problem(s) and changed his major to something that he actually enjoys. He's now looking at professional schools. I never would have believed that he could turn things around so well.</p>
<p>lighten the course load too, usually probation has some restrictions, but maybe he can take 12 credits vs 15-18. Are you absolutely sure gatech won't accept credits from another comp college or university for calc? How about if he took one of his electives at a local college or university over the summer? If he does well and the credits transfer, the fall wouldn't be so stressfull. Also, be sure that you (mom & dad) understand all his options. For example, can he take a semester off and take classes at another university in the fall and return to gatech for the spring? The whole thing is so stressfull, he may not be thinking clearly himself, or sharing all his options with you (and coming off a difficult year, the last thing he might want to do is take summer classes). It is not unusual for freshman to get in trouble and colleges do want to keep their students (that's why many tech schools like MIT use the pass/no fail system freshman year), but once on probation you only have one semester to get off it. Next year could be much worse if he is not successful and has to leave in the middle of the year.</p>
<p>whynotniwot, good luck to you and your kid. I'd like to second QuantMech's suggestion of self-study using the PSSC (Physical Sciences Study Committee) Physics book. I found one in the library, looked it over and ordered a used copy yesterday and will be going over it w/D this summer. Doing so will give the kids some confidence going into the fall.</p>
<p>I don't know if this will be a helpful suggestion to you or not-- but around here, when kids know they will be taking an extremely rigorous course in college--they will often take the course at our local inexpensive community college before they attempt the course in college, without making any attempt to transfer the grade or credit. That way they hit the ground with a running start when they take the course at their regular college for credit, because they are already familiar with the course material.</p>
<p>I'm a counselor at a community college, and one of the first things we try to address with a new student, is the fact that the work load in college is dramatically different than it is in high school. Many students in high school can slide by and get decent grades by studying an hour or so every night. We point out that a new college student should count on putting in 1 and a half to 2 hours of study for every credit hour that they take. If a student is taking 12 credit hours, this translates into a MINIMUM of 18 hours each week, usually more like 24 hours. And for students with some type of learning disability or ADHD (yes, they go to college too!), they should increase that figure to 3 hours of study per week for each credit hour they're taking. Many students (at least at the community college level) are shocked - SHOCKED! - at this level of time commitment. </p>
<p>I agree with the earlier poster who suggested day-planners as a good way to keep track of study time and other commitments. Our office has long discussions with each "newbie" about the importance of using a day-planner to manage life and school responsibilities. Some kids just feel too "restricted" by this type of planning, but others find the structure pretty liberating. Having a student track a full week's worth of how he actually spends his time (literally 24/7) goes a long way towards figuring out if too much socializing, not enough sleep, or not enough studying contributed in any way to the rough semester. Hope this helps!</p>
<p>kitty - I agree with your organizational bent. But I find that the most common reason for freshmen failure is the failure to go to every single class. Class attendance - as others have mentioned here - is so important. If students know that going to class is never optional, it also encourages (if not compels) being prepared for class since no one likes going to class unprepared. This is easier said than done but my own view is that any serious look behind most failure stories reveals some spotty class attendance.</p>
<p>Some things that have helped with our son his first year:</p>
<p>Use of technology:
Google calendar to put in syllabus due dates for the semester, his class schedule including the room number (helps the first few weeks).
Google documents for his todo list
Web page with the course links, course description and links to things to help with the course, links to school administration functions and his department</p>
<p>Previewing classes. I think that he's previewed every class that he took this year either using free, online videos, reading through multiple textbooks for his intended course or using open courseware.</p>
<p>He took Computing II this semester and the dropout rate was about 40%. This is with those that survived Computing I. Computing II had something like 120 labs. State schools can have a sink or swim mentality.</p>
<p>In physics, I think that about 50% dropped out in Physics I and that of those, about 40% dropped out in Physics II. Most professors and department heads push withdrawing from a class to protect the transcript.</p>
<p>The one thing that I've bugged him about this semester is getting into study groups. He prefers to try to do everything on his own and I told him that it isn't always the most efficient way to go.</p>
<p>whynot, your S may not be able to take the classes elsewhere for credit, but he could certainly take them at a community college so that he has more exposure to at least some of the material before he retakes these courses at GT, couldn't he? Or he may want to cover the GT course material over the summer on his own with a tutor. Whatever it takes to give him some confidence and understanding of the subject matter for next fall when he retakes these classes.</p>
<p>After much (calm) discussion, my son has decided to attend summer school. He will take just these two courses. We have asked him to contact his advisor to check on this and the advisor is okay with this. They do want to be kept advised of progress during the term. They also, like us, want him to work with academic success office to get help with his study habits, organization, etc..</p>
<p>I was truly amazed that GT had a "Do Over" policy for freshman. You can take up to 2 classes in which you got a F or D. If you get a better grade, the lower grade is dropped from your gpa. It is on the transcript, but this at least gives you a chance. You can do this only once for each class.</p>
<p>I want to thank everyone for their comments. Even if I did not agree with them I appreciated that folks offered well thought out ideas. They really did help in how my wife and I approached this with our son. In fact he thanked me for trying to offer suggestions vs "yelling" at him.</p>
<p>Hopefully, I will have good news to report at the end of July.</p>
<p>I knew a lot of kids who worked really, really hard in high school, and then first year of college thought they could lighten up a bit. I agree with the poster who mentioned that rushing a house can take up a ton of free time.</p>
<p>Suggest you go light on the lad. He is probably more embarrassed about this, and disappointed in himself, than you are.</p>
<p>I'll bet switching his major will take care of most of the problem anyway.</p>
<p>Whynot- it can be a surprise how much that apparently blase kid really does care about what's happening, how scared and confused they are despite missing class, partying, or just plain not knowing how to study and it is rewarding to see how a parent's surprise offer to help rather than a screaming lecture can make a turning point in a relationship.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son this summer</p>
<p>whynotniwot (what is the genesis of your screen name)--glad that plans have been calmly made. I can't tell you how many times I've read on this board that GT is really murder, especially on the engineering newbies. Maybe they should go to a pass/fail first semester, like MIT.</p>
<p>^^whynotniwot,</p>
<p>I think it would be a really good idea for your son to find a friendly grad student or advanced physics undergrad who can help him check his understanding of the physics and calculus, during the summer, on a routine basis. Someone who really understands the material can often diagnose specific problems that are interfering with a student's understanding, while it's still opaque to the student himself.</p>