<p>I will make this short and sweet. If you care about reputation of school and that is important in your future circles (i.e the business world), then you do not go to TCNJ. Plain and simple. TCNJ is a good liberal arts school that is good if you want to be a teacher, a nurse, and perhaps pre-med (because nobody cares where their doctor went for undergrad). Having graduated in '98 and working in the business world (currently private banking for a swiss bank) I can tell you that the name TCNJ, College of NJ, or whatever you want to call it has zero cachet. I have found success in business a little bit slower than my counterparts due in large part to the rep (or lack thereof) of TCNJ. So, prospective students looking at Rutgers vs. TCNJ, either one is fine if it suits your needs, but don't expect to garner attention from having graduated there. If you are going to grad school and want good "value" before you drop a huge load on your advanced degree, understood. I welcome any and all private messages as I strongly stand by the fact that I could have gone to a state school like Penn State (with a lower academic standard than TCNJ) or University of ________fill in the blank and most people would be like "Oh cool you went to Penn State.....my cousin went there..etc. etc..."...But do you really want to spend the rest of your lives explaining to out-of-staters and potential employers/recruiters that "TCNJ was ranked on the Barron's list" or "TCNJ is ranked higher than Rutgers." Trust me, nobody in the neighboring state of NY knows anything about TCNJ or Rutgers. The only way they will care if you went to Rutgers is if you played D-1 football there. Mark my word.</p>
<p>My son is considering TCNJ…and what you are saying has been on my mind. I work in NY and many senior managers never heard of it…in fact, one person thought it was a community college.</p>
<p>So…the school really needs a major marketing campaign or something! My son really liked the campus, the students, and the programs, and he is considering a business major. We are still visiting other schools, and we are open to suggestions, but you have a point.</p>
<p>I am from NY and most people at my school know it, and I’m going there in the Fall =)</p>
<p>And things are different now, namely its not 1998, it’s 2009, so graduating 11 years ago keeps you a little out of the loop</p>
<p>I am not out of the loop. I meet with recruiters all of the time. Nobody outside of NJ, unless they are from NJ has heard of the school. I understand being defensive because you either go or went there, but reality is reality my friend. You will not have the doors opened for you as you would if you graduate from a recognizable name. That is the consensus of this board. Nobody is saying the academics are weak, I got a 1300 on the old SATs and got close to a free ride there. Truthfully, I would have rather been $150K in debt out of a noteworthy college than have gone to TCNJ. Again, I will reiterate, I have found success, but not as quickly as friends who graduated from more notable schools (and they were lesser students). Again, I welcome this repartee, because I’ve worked in NYC for 10 years so I think I am plugged in to the NY job market. Moreover, I live in Princeton , so I am not detached from the NJ scene.</p>
<p>Another option, which some of the parents I’ve worked around elect to do–and keep in mind these are parents that ultimately sent their kids to Ivies–they will send their child to a TCNJ or Rutgers or even community college (I know that is hard for some to stomach) for a year or two to save. Their child will excel at that school and then simply matriculate to “Private College X” and years later nobody will ask whether their child was at Harvard for the full 4 years of undergrad—it’s just about the diploma folks. Unfortunately we live in a superficial world. While brains are extremely important in taking you to the next level, beauty and pedigree trump brains a large part of the time when it comes to getting hired. Think about your child’s future. I didn’t have a choice (had to pay my own way) and I was enamored by the beautiful campus of TCNJ, the “private college feel”, but the student body overall is comprised of underachieving and Ivy-waitlisted people. One more thing I should add. In my freshman year, my first roommate was an African American student who entered through the EOF (Educational Opportunity Fund) program. I was really excited about the diversity of the school coming in—until I caught him reading an “Easy Reader” book (it was like elementary school level reading) and then I realized that this school was all smoke and mirrors. No marketing plan is going to take this school from the ashes. As long as it keeps any aspect of NJ in its name (Don’t even know if it’s better than calling it Trenton State) it will never be a contender. Discuss.</p>
<p>With all due respect centralprkwest I would NEVER consider going $150K in debt just to pay for the name of a “noteworthy” college. No school is worth that much money. With that being said I am a bio major (and have aimed high my entire life) who will most likely end up at graduate or med school so for me tcnj is a good choice. I will aim for the ivies four years from now. With the way this economy is going I do not feel like graduating with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, especially with jobs being so hard to come by these days. You are not the first person I have heard from who has put down the quality of tcnj, and frankly I could care less. I would never choose a school simply because I believe its name would get me somewhere; I would hope that future employers would look at ME. I’m sorry that you felt you were “above” tcnj standards, but in my opinion I have made the right choice. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion but please do not impose your personal resentment upon us.</p>
<p>Where you went to college in 1998 should not matter any longer. My brother went to Rider and graduates from Harvard, Michigan, UNC-CH as well as many other top Universities report to him. He works for one of the best known and respected companies in the world.</p>
<p>TCNJ is a fine school- but it is all about what you do after you leave that will tell your life story. Little will do with what college you graduated from. By the way I graduated from TCNJ many years ago. Should the UPenn graduate that reports to me feel bad.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>In regard to graduating with college loan debt; a better job (netted by a better school coupled with good contacts) will pay that back faster. Again, I went to TCNJ virtually for free and said that I would rather have had the alternative having had real world experience. I’m sure there are prestigious school graduates that may feel differently in regard to their debt situation. That said, to the person who is has clear plans for grad school with a bio minor–why even retort? You are doing exactly what I said is acceptable, if you don’t care about undergrad and are bio, it doesn’t matter if you went to any college in NJ except for maybe Kean!</p></li>
<li><p>In regard to who reports to who in the real world, there are obviously other factors in play in addition to school attended–i.e. contacts, your personality, etc. But we all know the ivies and top schools have recruiters and career fairs come to them—this is not so at The College of NJ, it’s just not. At my company and other companies I worked for, people with the pedigree got hired first and obviously if there was a “tiebreak” situation the one with the prestigious degree got hired first. My point here was not to offend but I am describing real-world situations to parents and potential students from the vantage point of a seasoned grad. I would also add that I did get into Fordham Law in NY but that was due to recommendations, good LSAT, and work experience----the interviewers did question the TCNJ curriculum (which of course I staunchly defended aka “lied”).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>How many years? 20 or 30? Then you have many of years of work experience that will in many cases trump pedigree. But we are also in an age that there are more college graduates and grad school graduates due to a very difficult job market. I would even argue that there are people who wouldn’t have gone to grad school had it not been for this market. Bottom line is in 5-10 years when the job market is in a better place, there will be a glut of talent. An undergraduate degree that is less than 10 years old that is from a lesser known school will not be a competitor. And an undergraduate degree on its own will have much less value, particularly in the Northeast.</p>
<p>Greetings, centralprkwest:
You sound like a very bitter individual and you speak as though you haven’t experienced life. Although you say you received a free education from TCNJ, what would have happened if you did graduate $150K in debt? It is quite doubtful that you would have gone to graduate school following undergraduate. You probably would have had to work for a year or two to repay some of your loans, and then possibly would have attended graduate school (if your financial situation would have allowed you to do so of course). Would you feel inferior because all of your friends (who attended an ivy and I assume did not graduate $150K in debt) would be ahead of you? Need I remind you that America is built upon self-determination? Sure, finding a job is a struggle, but it is this effort that makes us stronger. Maybe your roommate had strengths beyond his academic studies–strengths that TCNJ recognized and used to represent the college. The fact that you describe TCNJ’s student body as “underachieving and Ivy-waitlisted people” contradicts your depiction of your roommate. A quintessential underachiever wouldn’t even attempt to gain knowledge or better himself, while your roommate certainly did try to by taking on “Easy Reader.” I won’t even use Horatio Alger as an example. That would be too degrading.
Perhaps it wasn’t the school that slowed your success. A number of factors would influence your future occupation (personality being one of them, as <em>HazelEyez</em> so magnificently described). It sounds like you simply had a bad experience and are using TCNJ as a scapegoat. Stop reveling in self-pity and be proud of your accomplishments.</p>
<p>is to help prospective students and parents make an informed decision, not psychoanalyze me. I am merely saying that I do not have my college to thank for my achievements as some of my friends do (in addition to their other attributes). And the comment “underachieving Ivy-waitlisted” refers more to the current demographic than that from 10 years ago. You put an interesting spin on my former roommate. The point was that the Educational Opportunity Fund brought in students that did not meet the very “academic standard” that TCNJ touts. Quite honestly, I am not bitter, but I do feel that I must discredit TCNJ if given the opportunity. It’s funny, but just the other day, one of my neighbors, a 70 year old Wharton grad who is a recruiter in Central NJ said to me “wow you’re doing pretty well considering you’re working for that company having graduated from there.” There is a built in stigma that will never go away. TCNJ is the one blemish on my life record. But to the last detractor, I would like to know your background so I can better understand your comments.</p>
<p>You describe your college education as a blemish; a demeaning mark that you must eternally bear in shame. I find this statement difficult to understand when TCNJ’s current retention rate is 95%. I associate with people who have graduated from TCNJ, and who are now fully satisfied with their occupation. My cousin, who graduated from The University of Pennsylvania (Wharton), now holds a job at a recognized company in NY. It turns out that my cousin has co-workers who graduated from TCNJ. They are just as successful as she is, possibly more. This has actually become a phenomenon; TCNJ is growing, and it is much more developed now than it was 10 years ago.
It appears as though you do indeed feel inferior for attending a “lesser-ranked” school than your friends. I will tell you know that it is not the school you attend, but the person. It is the character of the student that will get him far. Take Sarah Palin or Farrah Fawcett, for example. One went to the University of Idaho, and the other the University of Texas, but they’ve turned out alright.
You should be proud of your accomplishments. This feeling of inadequacy should not permeate your thoughts at your place of work. You’re a college graduate who has certainly worked your way up in society. You should be thanking TCNJ for giving you such a wonderful opportunity. It was your stepping stone for greater things.</p>
<p>Centralprkwest,</p>
<p>I am a New Yorker and will attend TCNJ next year, I will most likely end up in medicine. I did my research, found the school and appreciated it for what it was, an excellent school.
In the past 11 years it has upped its standards tremendously, i got a 1330 on my SAT’s, superior to your scores and I got 3k a year.</p>
<p>And granted, it doesn’t have a national reputation, and I don’t need it to. It has a decent regional one, and the people that HAVE heard of it, know it is a great school.</p>
<p>Bdmet…again, if you are premed you are fine going here and most other schools in NJ. As for scoring, I know the test has changed and my 1300 was not only good, but at the top of the range of scores back then. Actually I just looked at a conversion chart, and my 650 on each section would now amount to a total of 1360 by today’s scoring standard. I am not competing with you, but you seemed to mention that your score was higher (not so). Moreover, my total cost per annum (after merit based scholarships) was around $2500/year. MPerfectionist, what is your background/your relationship to TCNJ? Are you the Dean or someone who has a vested interest in propagating the allure of TCNJ?</p>
<p>There is no accurate conversion chart and there’s no way to tell other than the numbers we have already, and 1330>1300 my friend. Regardless, you can’t expect the college you went to to just do all of the work for you, it is called personal drive.</p>
<p>What makes you think MPerfectionist has an exclusive relationship with the college? It seems to me they are merely a student who has been offended by your comments. What else did you expect by coming onto this site? Surely you had to have known you would upset someone.</p>
<p>I think MPerfectionist and bdmet’s comments say it all. You have to work for what you want. Now, I am not saying centralprkwest that you did not work to get to where you are today as I believe you most certainly have worked hard, my point is to reiterate that you cannot rely on the name of a school to get you places. For example, during a tour of an Ivy last summer I spoke with an employee and asked him what he thought of the school and why I should consider attending. His honest answer was to go to apply to a school NOT because of its name but because it has what you want. He told me I would not believe the number of students who go to that school and do not work to their full potential or who graduate and do not use their degree. Mind you, this was an employee of the school (someone who would normally do all they can to promote their employer). This just goes to show that there will of course be discrepencies in the student body at ALL schools, regardless of name. </p>
<p>You say the comment “underachieving Ivy - waitlisted” refers more to today’s demographic at TCNJ? I would beg to differ. While I am sure your comment holds true for some of the current students (there are underachievers everywhere, see the comments made above by the Ivy employee) it is not an accurate depiction of the entire student body. Two years ago our school’s valedictorian chose to attend TCNJ. This year he was inducted to the college honor society. This fall, five from my school will attend and three of us are in the top 10 of our class (most likely even the top three). Isn’t it possible that a lot of the students who go to TCNJ are Ivy material but could not attend because they could not afford the Ivy price tage and were smart enough to not go into tons of debt? </p>
<p>The bottom line is that centralprkwest is one opinion out of thousands. May I ask why you believe finding success in business slower than your counterparts means for discrediting the college? Obviously you are successful today. Perhaps you had to work harder to get to where you are , but personally I would find it more admirable to be able to say that I worked hard to gain my success. I feel it would give my position more meaning. If you are successful today and happy where you are than why put down a college that YOU chose over ten years ago?</p>
<p>But they did completely change the format of the SAT, so we are really not comparing apples to apples score-wise. I took the test in around 1993. Moreover, I would say given the fact that there is now an essay section—I would’ve rocked it! But let’s focus here–forget about standardized tests, I would just like all TCNJ researchers to have multiple perspectives to guide them in their desicion making process. When I was looking at college, I didn’t have the luxury of forums to help guide me. Good luck to all; I trust you will all make the right decision!</p>
<p>HazelEyez, I appreciate your comments and friendly tone. Congratulations on your academic achievement–I’m sure you will excel wherever you go. I’m sure that if I worked in New Jersey coming out of college I may not feel as strongly as I do regarding the name recognition issue. However, it was my desire to work in NY, as I thought this is where the money and success would be (it was). I would have to say 95 out of 100 conversations I have ever had where the topic of undergrad college attended comes up, I have to explain what TCNJ is, that it was top-rated etc. etc. So has the lack of cachet gotten to me? Absolutely. Maybe my feelings should be more focused towards the business students? I do think it’s important that people see a grad’s point of view from 5/10/15 years ago to get an accurate illustration of how a school has or hasn’t progressed. But I do think it’s telling that people in a neighboring state like New York,for the most part do not have any knowledge of The College of New Jersey. Perhaps with the current economic trend there will be a time when TCNJ has cachet, maybe there will be a Nobel Laureate or something that puts them on the map, but I doubt it.</p>
<p>Just a word of advice to any high schooler out there who is beginning the search for a college - you are going to hear positive and negative comments about ALL schools wherever you go. The most important thing is to remember to work hard and in the end make the decision that you feel is right for you, because after all you know yourself best.</p>
<p>Why is TCNJ not ranked on US News or other places, I know its a good school, I’m just wondering why its not ranked.
Thanks.</p>