From Military to Harvard

Student Lounge Veterans
1

<p>This post is 968 words long, but hang in there. </p>

<p>I write this to present to you a different perspective, and perhaps dispense a little advice. I recently came upon a thread on CC where a mother was irate that her child had been swindled by a devious and crafty recruiter, causing him to contemplate a career in the armed forces. What ensued was a flurry of posts soaked in condescension and elitism. Most of it was not overt, but the tone of the posts betrayed their author’s beliefs. References to enlisted men and women as “just grunts”, numerous claims that 18 year olds couldn’t possibly possess the mental capacity necessary to make a decision as devastating as military service, and an overall acceptance of the belief that the choices to be made are between college (success), or military (mediocrity). This is a college forum, so I get it. Again, I write this post to present a different perspective, on military service as well as college acceptance.</p>

<p>Regarding the latter, what are your chances to x school? Nobody knows. The whole “chance me” concept is flawed. Just about every post I’ve read represents a person who appears highly qualified for acceptance to just about any school they want to go to. I’ve read some very impressive resumes, and I’m sure these posts have crushed many a casual reader’s dreams with their impressiveness. If I posted my high school credentials on a “chance me” thread, I doubt there would be much praise, and I’m certain it wouldn’t discourage my competition. My SAT’s were above average but not spectacular, and I took them so long ago that the writing portion was still an optional SATII. My GPA was entirely unimpressive, as was my participation in extracurriculars, yet I was accepted to almost every school that I applied to for the class of 2016. How can this be? The answer is repeated on this forum time and time again. I’m a real person. Good schools want real people.</p>

<p>This fall I am going to be a freshman at Harvard- a husband, father, a veteran of two wars, and a freshman. I served for over 8 years in the army “on the line”, and I experienced everything that you would expect me to have with almost 3 years overseas, gun in my hands. I was a noncommissioned officer leading soldiers in Iraq at 19 years old, and I can assure you that the countless 18 year olds that I interacted with fully grasped the implications of their decision to serve their country. I met extremely intelligent people at every turn, and none of them were tricked by a recruiter. All of them have bright futures if they plan to stay in the military, and especially should they choose to get out. These are not the type of people who are going to be camping out in New York whining about how unfair America is. These are the type of people who know that America is the best place on earth and are going to seize every available opportunity offered to them, and work hard to be worthy of them. In short, military service, though honorable and timeless in its own right, does much to set up soldiers for future success.</p>

<p>Moms and dads worry. That’s what they do. My father was drafted to Vietnam, and the little he did speak of the military was mostly negative. He was not pleased when I, along with both of my brothers signed up and went off to war at the same time. I felt bad, but I don’t live with regret. I don’t live with regret because I don’t base my decisions off of how they make my parents feel, and my parents are strong enough to not want it any other way. Don’t live with regret. </p>

<p>The schools that accepted me saw value in my experiences, and not just the numbers attached to my name. I agree with them. I am not the same person that I was in high school, and I was undeniably not on the Harvard track back then. When people give advice on this forum to aspiring college students, they often tell them to pursue what they are passionate about, and to be true to themselves. This is fantastic advice. I don’t have to be an admissions officer to look at someone’s “chance me” post and see who’s an automaton and who isn’t. It should come as no surprise that Harvard rejects thousands of Valedictorians yearly, as I imagine those to be the same students who hit the workforce after 22 years of praise and hugs to finally realize that they don’t know who they are, and that they really don’t know how the world works. </p>

<p>This brings me to my former point. Military service is no longer what it was. It is a professional career now, which offers as much to a soldier as it requires of him or her. Overseas service, and especially combat, puts the American life into a global perspective. You learn quickly the precariousness of life, and the fortune that everyone visiting this site enjoys. I am a firm believer that America should require 2 years of service of everyone, before college or after. </p>

<p>This site brings together a disingenuous cross section of American youth, as the ambitious are overrepresented. The fact that you, the reader, is even on this site is a testament to your motivation. I would certainly present the option to you to consider military service prior to college as an honorable and beneficial endeavor, regardless of what mom and dad say. If my situation is any example, it certainly could not hurt your future prospects, and I can assure you that you will gain immeasurably in character and experience. </p>

<p>GRIP FAST</p>

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<p>“These are not the type of people who are going to be camping out in New York whining about how unfair America is.” I don’t want to go off track, but I’m assuming you’re referring to the Occupy Wallstreet protesters. I’m not one of them, nor do I intend to be one, but to say that they’re merely “whining about how unfair America is” is an ignorant perspective (no offense). They’re people who have risked their careers in protesting against major corporations and the government, and many have been injured as a result. At this point, many statistics have shown that over the past few decades, the economic disparity between the rich and the poor has increased to a great amount and it’s one of the highest in the world. You might argue it’s because those who are poor are lazy and stupid, but think of it this way: if they’re poor to begin with, then how can they afford higher education, and ultimately a good job? Before you start insulting people by accusing them of whining, how about you get to know them first.</p>

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<p>“I am a firm believer that America should require 2 years of service of everyone, before college or after.” I want to ask you why you think that would be a good idea. America already has the greatest military in the world, so why is it necesary that everybody has to enter the military? Other nations will become skeptical and suspect America of plotting something. South Korea has mandatory military service and nobody questions them because they actually need it for self-defense. America, on the other hand, is already a giant that stations its military in places all across the world simply to “defend” those nations, even when there is no threat. Furthermore, such an act would enrage the American public and would cause major conflicts, arrests, and political unrest.</p>

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<p>Please allow me to head this off before the debate over economic disparity in America hijacks this thread. If I offend you with my comment, I withdraw it from my post. I do stand by the fact that very, very few veterans, and I would argue almost no recent veteran is a part of that movement. Additionally, I stand by my assertion that the military is a great career, requiring almost no education. Finally I’d like to note that Ivy League educations are almost free to everyone accepted who needs aid. I am more or less on the poor side right now, just having left my career to go to school full time while supporting a family, but I got a free ride. So does everyone at these schools in my financial conditions. Again, let’s not turn this into a political debate. You’re 17 and idealistic and that’s cool.</p>

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<p>You discuss military service giving you and many others valuable experience that helped set your futures, but you never really went into actually being in the military. Why are so many families hesitant about sending their children to the military? This is because they don’t want them to die. Many soldiers can call these people cowards for being afraid of death, but this fear is natural and most people who don’t enter the military have bright futures already ahead of them. Their talents and skillsets are rooted in other fields besides being able to kill people. You should continue your post by discussing the actual experience, rather than life afterwards (assuming they survive without major injuries).</p>

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<p>First of all, thank you for serving our country. As the son of a veteran, I know second-hand some of the struggles you’ve been through and I can’t respect you more for that.</p>

<p>Having said this, alleging that someone who disagrees with you is “17 and idealistic” is condescending and counterproductive to having a constructive dialogue here.</p>

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<p>Lionrampant- Congratulations on your admittance to Harvard. You will find a world of amazing resources and unlimited viewpoints in your classes and classmates.</p>

<p>Thank you for your service. Harvard now recognizes the ROTC programs which were previously only available to H students through the MIT organizations. The number of military vets in the grad and undergrad programs continue to grow, thankfully. You will have a chance to share your maturity and values of honor and duty with often-times immature teens and twenty-somethings. Perhaps you can demonstrate values of moderation and officers/gentlemen to the culture of binge-drinking and hook-ups.</p>

<p>Your recommendation of military service before college is a fine one. I actually agree with you that the US should have compulsory military service for all. Think how much more mature the average collegian would be afterwards. Geography, history, and politics would offer much more relevence to those 20 year olds. (Beer pong: not so much.) </p>

<p>However the audience here is really skewed to high-achieving college bound students and anxious parents. Your message would likely win more consideration with the types of 18 year olds who are doubting college attendance. </p>

<p>A great suggestion for the already college-bound is the consideration of ROTC, which offers financial incentives (free tuition), character-building activities and classes, intense physical fitness training, and an officer’s commission upon graduation. </p>

<p>Until the military truly represents a cross section of America: poor, middle-class, and wealthy (Romney sons and Chelsea Clinton where are you??); average and super-intelligent, the institutions of Army, Navy, and Air Force will not be truly understood and supported by the populus. </p>

<p>(My eldest graduated from a top Ivy and is currently serving. As parents we contend with both huge anxiety and great pride in her accomplishments.)</p>

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<p>Lionrampant, I’m glad you’ll have the opportunity to attend a great school. I’m glad you will be able to provide an alternative perspective in class discussion. That’s what diversity is about. (And that’s why you were admitted - not because you are somehow more ‘real’ than everyone else.) And I have to agree with ECadmstudent that your tone is condescending and dogmatic - I suspect you will offend more students than persuade - and then further offend by assuming it’s because everyone else is immature and idealistic rather than because you have failed to communicate effectively. Substantively, your views also reflects a lack of understanding of why there is opposition to US military intervention and US foreign policy generally in that part of the world (and why, therefore, principled people might not want their kids to join) and why there is so much anger over the lack of constructive political and regulatory response to the financial meltdown. I hope that your time at Harvard will allow you to be introduced to these perspectives. I think you’ll be richer for it too.</p>

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<p>My post was made with the simple intent to advocate military service, make the claim that a decision to serve in the military does not limit one’s options but benefits one in many ways, and that service (not necessarily military) is a social necessity. That’s it. It is my fault for alluding to protestors in my post, failing to stay on topic…but more on that in a minute. As for my “lack of understanding of why there is opposition to US military intervention and US foreign policy generally in that part of the world” I can assure you that I fully understand the issue better than most. I am intimately familiar with “that part of the world” and know of most of its nuances first hand that most people only know through the media. I’m confused about how you could have possibly come to that conclusion about me with the information you had at hand.</p>

<p>Alleging someone is 17 and idealistic who has clearly proven himself as such, is not dismissing all who disagree with me as such. An individual who defends “occupy” protestors and accuses me of ignorance with the flimsy assertion that I should “get to know them” is idealistic, and makes the assumption that I don’t. An individual that puts quotations around the word “defend” when discussing the American military’s objectives worldwide is idealistic. An individual who scorns military service by saying that the talents and skills it promotes relate only to “being able to kill people” is idealistic, and misinformed. But hey, he must represent the group because no one jumped on him. Healthy skepticism is just that; however his platform demonstrates ignorance when it is unfounded and shallow. I am aware that I can be very direct in my writing, and I sincerely do not mean to offend, but I’m sure masterofpupets isn’t fragile. Furthermore, I was no more direct with my point than he. I value a constructive dialogue, especially if it is heated. </p>

<p>The hypocrisy is glaring when someone “supports the troops” but dismisses service as a viable option for one’s son or daughter because they regard a soldier as a piece in the machine of flawed imperialistic foreign policy. That would indicate a disdain for the troops. A decision based on self-preservation is understandable, and it is not dishonorable, it is simply not honorable. To suggest that I fail to see your viewpoint because I’ve failed to be exposed to different perspectives is condescending in itself, as if I couldn’t possibly hold the beliefs that I do unless I have my blinders on. I will agree with you that college will be a rich environment full of different viewpoints, and that appeal was the major factor in my decision to go to school, but you probably do not realize that the military is a heterogeneous environment that offers the same.</p>

<p>Since the topic of economic disparity in America is now in debate, I would like to briefly explore the issue as it pertains to education, because after all this is a college thread. I do not want to be misunderstood. My disagreement with the movement lies in its execution- tangling with police, damage of property, the embrace of nihilism, the overall lack of intellectual discourse. That is why I used the term “whining”. Economic disparity does exist, and those people who America enabled to follow their dreams to success should be led by social conscious to serve their country. This was my major point. Those visiting this site are clearly ambitious and headed for educational achievement, and therefore are bound by this obligation more than most. With that, we are on the same page.</p>

<p>The majority of my views are clearly not held by the demographic in this forum, but I will sincerely engage in a further professional dialogue devoid of further condescension on both parties. </p>

<p>And ECADMSTUDENT, FAUVE- I thank your father and your son for their service respectively.</p>

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<p>My eldest who is serving is a daughter, as it happens. But thank you for your kind support!</p>

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<p>If I’m doing military service, it’s going to be after college. You failed to effectively argue that point.</p>

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<p>Lionrampant – thank you for your service and your intelligent posts.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your service. I understand that many people (including myself) have misconceptions about the military, and I now know that I should rethink those misconceptions I have. Thank you again, and I wish you the best of luck at Harvard.</p>

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<p>I completely agree with the “everyone should have two years of military service”. I believe it would lower our crime rates and make our country a generally better place with everyone knowing what it takes to live the way we live. But on the other hand, that’s what makes the armed forces great - they don’t have to be there. They volunteered to put their lives on the line.</p>

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<p>LIONRAMPANT - Wow! Timely post for me! Just posted a new thread regarding my son wanting to go into the military directly from high school. My husband and I would rather that he go in after school as we think it will be harder for him to go to and complete college after being in the military. would love to know your thoughts. You have certainly given me a lot to think about. Thank you.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/veterans/1385592-college-after-army-questions.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/veterans/1385592-college-after-army-questions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Thank you for your service to our country, it’s never unappreciated. I agree that all citizens should be required to serve at least two years, it builds morale and character that one cannot get anywhere else. I’d like to congratulate you on your acceptance to Harvard and I wish you the best of luck.</p>