FSU-FAMU Engineering Dept

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>P2N, I know from older posts that you have significant concerns about this matter, and I believe your concerns to be sincere and not motivated by unfair bias. As an outside and [striving to be] objective observer, I see that the FSU-FAMU matter seems to be an unsatisfactory King Solomon solution to the those in the FSU community whom agree with your points. Moreover, the swift and ocasionally trecherous currents of race in our country often add complications to what heretofore seem to be straightforward circumstances. I may have said this before, but it appears to me that the powers that be in Florida politics created and maintain the existing CoE situation because of lingering ill will regarding the former FAMU School of Law. Peoples’ emotions run high when trying to settle or come to terms with history, P2N. With that being said, what do we do today? You’ve made recommendations, some of which would be hard to achieve and some that may not be practical, given that the present CoE program is fully certified/accredited by ABET; prompting people to ask, ‘unless there is an unlimited budget for engineering education in Florida, why change the present CoE?’</p>

<p>Please keep in mind that the federal consent decree regarding the once officially segregated public black colleges was fashioned with the intent of enhancing schools that were intentionally neglected but today regularly perform with great distinction, notwithstanding limited resources.</p>

<p>I don’t mean to blather on. I hope that all parties concerned will commit to providing an substantive education and sound professional preparation to Tallahassee’s engineering undergraduates.</p>

62

<p>Ucb:

My information is third or forth-hand at best, but basically bills incurred by the school weren’t being paid, building maintenance was not being performed, poor faculty morale, students aligned with their respective university and likely more which I don’t know about. When FSU said “let us manage the budget” FAMU reacted with resentment and refused to allow FSU to get the E school’s bills paid. Morale among faculty is strained because FSU faculty are paid considerably more than their counterparts at FAMU. </p>

<p>What I know I hear from faculty (those that share their mind, which is rare), students and what I read in the papers. Recently an effort was made to split the school, but the FAMU trustees declined to split. I don’t get it.</p>

<p>LW - I have heard the bad blood regarding the law school issue, but FAMU forgets that FSU lost a journalism program which FAMU gained. Not to mention FAMU was finally awarded a law school, which also has its share of accreditation and grad-rate problems. FSU never got journalism back to this date.</p>

<p>Regardless, I am sympathetic to HBCUs. I simply see no reason for FSU to be involved in their struggles or identity maintenance. Academia is competitive enough strictly on the academics without adding a trick bag of racial politics. No one wants to go there. Me neither. ;)</p>

63

<p>We should note that despite the above concerns the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering ranked third in Florida. </p>

<p>Not bad, but not where it should be in my opinion.</p>

64

<p>Academia is competitive enough strictly on the academics without adding a trick bag of racial politics. No one wants to go there. Me neither. </p>

<ul>
<li>You really seem to be an expert on HBCU’s “racial politics” with out ever haven attended one. It does sound like a messy situation between FAMU’s and FSU’s school of Engineering.</li>
</ul>

<p>This is exactly why I never considered FAMU for Engineering under any circumstance. I preferred to play in my “trick bag of racial politics” at a separate and independent HBCU engineering program.</p>

<p>When looking at the low enrollment rates at FAMU/FSU engineering school on the FAMU side of the isle I think a lot of people have the same opinion.</p>

65

<p>That’s a fair point regarding the FSU School of Journalism. And yes, FAMU eventually was awarded a new law school to replace the disbanded one.</p>

<p>By the way Tusk, a lot of people are well aware of the racial politics regarding HBCUs, at least as regards public HBCUs. The federal litigation was years-long, spread over nearly every state of the old confederacy and was quite problematic for supporters of HBCUs. Cases like FSU-FAMU arrangement, as well as the Auburn-Alabama A&M-UAlabama Huntsville situation are further complicated by the fact that the schools are in close promixity to one another. When we feud with our neighbors, we always want our neighbors to be the one to make concessions, or to move away altogether.</p>

66

<p>Guess Tuskegee University being private is why we and Auburn get along fairly well. Only 15 miles away but, not fighting over the same state funds.</p>

<p>Good point…</p>

67

<p>Huge difference, tusk. FSU has a College of Medicine but FAMU wants one, too. It is never ending. It is a waste.</p>

68

<p>From what I have read FAMU has a desire for a school of denistry not a medical school.</p>

<p>Link:</p>

<p><a href=“Page Not Found”>Page Not Found;

<p>[Jacksonville</a> news, obituaries, crime and weather | jacksonville.com](<a href=“http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2010-05-05/story/famu-dental-college-not-funded-so-won’t-take-over-uf-clinic]Jacksonville”>http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2010-05-05/story/famu-dental-college-not-funded-so-won&#8217;t-take-over-uf-clinic)</p>

69

<p>A part of the mission of a HBCU is to recruite students with the highest high school academic standards. Hence why FAMU still manages to recruite and offer scholarships to the highest achievers in and out of the state.</p>

<p>Link:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.discoverfamu.com/discover-ScholarshipProgram.php[/url]”>http://www.discoverfamu.com/discover-ScholarshipProgram.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>But, another role of an HBCU is to offer an opportunity to students who would other wise not have one. Hence FAMU enrolls students with lower GPA’s or lower standardised test scores than what some would even consider college material.</p>

<p>Nuturing, tutoring, and a strong “shared desire” by the faculty, staff, and the student body and these students who may not have gotten a second look by other universities are graduating. Graduating and going on to be Pharmaciest, Engineers, Teachers and Nurses and that is never a waste…</p>

70

<p>I don’t buy the “separate but equal” treatment. That is 1930s thinking. I think it time to move past such things.</p>

<p>I think the real reason FAMU hangs onto the HBCU identity and pushes the race stuff is because if they were to integrate they become just another small, overly duplicated state university and then there would be a push to merge with FSU. Florida already has a successful, local, low-cost, expansive and nurturing community and state college system for students who need extra help. Why on earth Florida tolerates a public single-race university is beyond me.</p>

<p>FAMU probably should become the College of Agricultural and Mechanical Sciences of Florida State University.</p>

<p>It really is time to move on.</p>

71

<p>Separate but equal is against the law in this country, FAMU nor any HBCU are allowed to implement such a policy. Don’t know how to make that any clearer other than to suggest a google search on the American Civil Rights movement.</p>

<p>The reason why colleges like FAMU remain predominately black is the very same reason why a majority of white universities remain predominately white. Many whites do not value these intistutions or it takes them out of there comfort zone. There are exceptions ofcourse, FAMU’s Law school, Tuskegee University School of Vetenary medicine and I am sure countless other examples. </p>

<p>Good luck with the “College of Agricultural and Mechanical Sciences of Florida State University”.</p>

<p>FAMU is here to stay and as long as they remain a accredited university they are here to stay in Florida. They certainly don’t appear to be doing any worse for ware because they are now the largest enrollee of students of all HBCU’s. Being due to hit over 14,000 students with in a year or two. </p>

<p>If a University was originally founded to educate black people due to white institutions not allowing them to attend. That makes it by definition a Historically Black College or University. Many simularities between woman colleges or catholic colleges or other Christian colleges. </p>

<p>But, what we as black people have build, where or mission and our goals are set by us and with us in mind to benefit and to improve or place in this United States, we will not let it be torn down or apart because it offends some.</p>

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<p>It is not a question of being offended. As a Florida taxpayer (are you, tusk, a Florida taxpayer?) FAMU has horrible performance for the invested taxpayer dollar…indeed, my taxpayer dollars. FAMU has about a 38% graduation rate, faaaaaar below FSU and UF in terms of educating black Americans, which each have well over 70% grad rates for black students, which even exceeds the national rate for non-black students! I say Bravo! Go 'Noles! Go Gators! </p>

<p>See, for example: [State:</a> More blacks succeed at FSU](<a href=“http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/19/State/More_blacks_succeed_a.shtml]State:”>http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/19/State/More_blacks_succeed_a.shtml) </p>

<p>and: [FSU</a> Black Law Students Association Named Best in Nation](<a href=“http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/FSU_Black_Law_Students_Association_Named_Best_in_Nation_118112909.html]FSU”>http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/FSU_Black_Law_Students_Association_Named_Best_in_Nation_118112909.html)

</p>

<p>By comparison, FAMU seems to recruit students, run up their credit card balance, then let them quit before graduation. Unacceptable.</p>

<p>What is more important…educating black students or spending millions on a public HBCU which fails in getting this essential job done?</p>

<p>The Catholics also approve of a parochial education. I am completely fine with this as they spend their own money for this purpose and have many fine private Catholic universities as a result. Boston College, Notre Dame and so on are excellent schools.</p>

<p>Can’t say that about taxpayer supported FAMU. By almost every measure it underperforms horribly.</p>

73

<p>Sorry, and for the tax payers money FAMU is doing just fine in many regards. They seem to do better at there product, than any other University in Florida. </p>

<p>Link:
[Why</a> FAMU Matters](<a href=“http://diverseeducation.com/article/1688/]Why”>http://diverseeducation.com/article/1688/)</p>

<p>FAMU is the nation’s leading producer of African Americans receiving baccalaureate degrees. It is a distinction the university has held for five consecutive years. In 2000, the university awarded bachelor’s degrees to 1,309 African Americans.</p>

<p>FAMU is the nation’s leading producer of African American undergraduates receiving bachelor’s degrees in education.
n FAMU is the third leading producer of African American undergraduates who earn bachelor’s degrees in psychology and in health professions and related sciences.</p>

<p>FAMU is the fourth leading producer of African American undergraduates earning bachelor’s degrees in computer and information sciences, and in business management and administrative services.</p>

<p>Research:</p>

<p>While the institution’s first priority is undergraduate teaching and learning, FAMU has a growing research enterprise. The university currently has more than $40 million in federal research contracts and grants. It also offers doctoral programs in 13 areas. Among them: educational leadership, environmental sciences, physics, six different engineering concentrations and four different concentrations in pharmacy.</p>

<p>Students:</p>

<p>FAMU is the institution of choice for many National Achievement Scholars. This year, it tied with Harvard University in attracting the highest number of National Achievement Scholars — 62. Howard University, which ranked second, attracted 46 National Achievement Scholars. The University of Florida, which attracted 28 National Achievement Scholars, was the only other Florida university to rank in the top 10. The National Achievement Scholars program recognizes minority high school students who score high on the SAT.
n In 1997 Black Issues In Higher Education’s annual Top 100 report revealed that FAMU had replaced Howard University as the nation’s largest producer of Black students.</p>

<p>n In 1997, FAMU was selected by Time magazine as its “College of the Year.” The magazine uses the distinction to highlight institutions that achieve excellence while also nurturing their students.
n In 1999, Black Enterprise rated the university third among the top 50 colleges and universities for African American students.</p>

<p>—Compiled by Cheryl D. Fields</p>

<p>Link:</p>

<p>[FAMU</a> pharmacy grads celebrate 100% passage | Education articles blog on schools in Florida & Tampa Bay: the Gradebook | tampabay.com & St. Petersburg Times](<a href=“http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gradebook/2007/12/famu-pharmacy-g.html]FAMU”>http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gradebook/2007/12/famu-pharmacy-g.html)</p>

<p>FAMU pharmacy grads celebrate 100% passage</p>

<p>Seventy-three 2007 FAMU pharmacy graduates all passed the national licensure exam required to practice, beating the national pass rate of 97.23 percent and the state pass rate of 98.22 percent, FAMU president James Ammons announced.</p>

<p>FAMU’s average score of 119.15 on the exam also exceeded the state average of 118.77 and the national average of 116.</p>

<p>“We are very proud of the students in the College of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences,” said Ammons. “I applaud Dean Lewis and the faculty for doing an outstanding job in preparing our students. This is another example of how we have distinguished ourselves.”</p>

<p>FAMU, the state’s only historically black public university, is known for its pharmacy program. For years, it has been the largest producer of black pharmacists in the country.</p>

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<p>Graduation Rates have a more to due with money than anything else.</p>

<p>“The average family income for UF students is about $105,000 and only 21 percent of its full-time, first-time students receive Pell Grants. Most FAMU students come from families that make $30,000 or less. FAMU is also the only SUS member at which most of the full-time, first-time students receive Pell Grants, with a total of 52 percent.”</p>

<p>Most SUS institutions have 6-year grad rates below 50%</p>

<p>Link:</p>

<p>[Rattler</a> Nation: Most SUS institutions have 6-year grad rates below 50%](<a href=“http://rattlernation.blogspot.com/2010/06/most-sus-institutions-have-6-year-grad.html]Rattler”>Most SUS institutions have 6-year grad rates below 50%)</p>

<p>In 2008, seven of the 11 State University System of Florida institutions graduated fewer than half of their students in six years. The average six-year graduation rate for the entire system was 53.1 percent.</p>

<p>The University of Florida led overall with 82 percent. FAMU had 41 percent. FAU came in last with 39 percent.</p>

<p>Considering the scarcity of on-campus housing in the SUS it’s no surprise that UF, which has a wealthy student body, is on top of the graduation rate list.</p>

75

<p>Sorry, ads for FAMU are not convincing. FAMU remains an enormously underperforming state asset. The black students in the FSU CARE program are not wealthy and outperform wealthier non-black students. </p>

<p>This fact completely undercuts your wealth = success point.</p>

<p>The solution lies in a demanding, successful education and mainstreaming, not victimhood, identity politics and debt, which is a road to nowhere.</p>

<p>FAMU’s graduate pharmacy program with a handful of graduates hardly overcomes FAMU’s failure to educate the thousands of undergraduate students who mostly are cheated out of a shot at a decent education.</p>

<p>The vast majority of those students would be better served at a local community college or state college. Of course, then FAMU cannot collect thousands in tuition…mostly loans, I’d wager.</p>

<p>The only way FAMU would be worth retaining would be if they actually educated and graduated their students at better than average rates. </p>

<p>Anything less is failure.</p>

76

<ul>
<li>“The black students in the FSU CARE program are not wealthy and outperform wealthier non-black students.”</li>
</ul>

<p>No, idea of the income or scholarship dollars awarded to a typical FSU CARE student. But, numbers wise they make up less than 4,000 Black students including graduate students at FSU as compared to over 13,000 students at FAMU, or 3 times as many. </p>

<ul>
<li>“The solution lies in successful education and mainstreaming, not victimhood, identity politics and debt, which is a road to nowhere.” </li>
</ul>

<p>An yet FAMU seems to run circles around FSU at graduating Black students. FSU does have a great program in CARE but, the fact remains that FAMU does produce significantly in educating and graduating students. In fact producing students who go on to earn there PHD’s.</p>

<p>FAMU No. 1 institution of origin for blacks earning PhDs in Natural Science, Engineering</p>

<p>[Rattler</a> Nation: FAMU No. 1 institution of origin for blacks earning PhDs in Natural Science, Engineering](<a href=“http://rattlernation.blogspot.com/2010/11/famu-no-1-institution-of-origin-for.html]Rattler”>FAMU No. 1 institution of origin for blacks earning PhDs in Natural Science, Engineering)</p>

<p>FAMU is number one in the nation as the institution of origin for African Americans who earn doctorates in natural science and engineering.</p>

<p>In a pre-publication copy of Expanding Underrepresented Minority Participation: America’s Science and Technology Talent at the Crossroads, the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, and Institute of Medicine reported that FAMU is No. 1 out of 25 universities in the U.S. An institution of origin is where a person earns his or her bachelor’s degree.</p>

<p>In the report, the top 10 baccalaureate institutions of African Americans who went on to earn doctorates in the natural sciences and engineering for the period 2002-2006 were historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs). Some of the other universities that were listed in the top 25 included Howard University, Morehouse College, Tuskegee University, Hampton University and North Carolina A&T State University. University of Florida was one of the non-HBCUs listed in the top 25.</p>

<ul>
<li>“FAMU’s graduate pharmacy program with a handful of graduates”</li>
</ul>

<p>Link:</p>

<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_A%26M_University[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_A%26M_University&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>College of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences</p>

<p>The School of Pharmacy was organized in 1951. It received its present name in 1985 in recognition of the expanded role and mission of the college in professional and graduate education. </p>

<p>It is now one of the largest colleges of pharmacy in the country. It offers a Doctor of Pharmacy Degree (PharmD) and also a PhD program in Pharmacy. The fall PharmD enrollment was 1,068, and FAMU has produced over 20% of the nation’s African-American pharmacists.</p>

<p>The Pharmacy School in 2009–2010 graduate student enrollment is 122, with 42 PhDs, 21 DrPH, 45 MPH, and 14 MS candidates. </p>

<p>The school has graduated over 60% of African-American PhDs in pharmaceutical sciences, since 1990.</p>

<p>In 2003 it was ranked third in the nation for research funding through the National Institute of Health and consistently ranks as one of the top funded pharmacy school in the southeast.</p>

<p>It is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE) through June 30, 2010.</p>